I have spent hours looking through the files and some of the stories are absolutely disgusting. I am having such a hard time because so many citizens don’t even know how awful they get and they aren’t all even fully released… I am close to feeling like we need pitchforks, torches and shovels if this justice system won’t actually do anything… He had a ranch where a witness wrote in saying there are TWO bodies located on the property and they haven’t even reported that in the media. I’ll link that one below too. It’s just so… Horrible. We can’t just pretend this doesn’t exist… but idk what happens next for the United States and the world. It’s not something a country just moves on from.
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet 9/EFTA00078198.pdf
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet 9/EFTA01249507.pdf
What else are liberals going to need to realize that there is no reform for this sytem? I couldn’t fabricate something that so obviously demonstrates that this system is built to the benefit of the wealthiest through the brutalization of everyone else.
No bro please just vote for Newsom this one time bro let the billionaires just do a little more child raping so that way I won’t need to move away for another couple years please
Atm, anything in the Files critical of the current Ukrainian leadership or that connect Epstein to human trafficking in or through Ukraine is getting blasted as “Russian Propaganda”. So it looks like we’re back to the old Hillary Clinton game of insisting “Stupid Internet conspiracy theories are making us lose”.
They believe they’re financially comfortable and not in any danger as long as they only make sad noises and wring their hands about “the issues we face” and “problems that need to be fixed”. They still rely on being a cog in the system to eat, so they can’t really bring themselves to bite the hand just yet.
They won’t get angry until they realize it’s their retirement, lives, and children at risk. Even then, they’ll rationalize a lack of action due to “powerlessness”, conveniently forgetting that the first step is organization, not leaping onto action as an individual and getting steamrolled.
Wasn’t a genuine question, more of an expression of exacerbation. However, I think this is a stance that demonstrates a less actionable understanding of liberals.
It’s true that many have a material interset in the maintenance of capitalist systems – and all the violence that is necessary for them to exist whether they acknowledge that openly or not – but you’re framing it moralistically as though these people also choose to both be dependent on that system, and be neglected the knowledge and skills necessary to recognize necessary action. I do understand the pessimism deeply, as my experience has taught me that many do choose to remain in ignorance when the opportunity is given; for a number of reasons, but entitled petulance is certainly a factor. If you listen to workers though, you’ll notice they do understand that the issue is systemic and not effectively met by individual action. As you said, recognizing what that systemic failure is, who it serves and why, and how to organize in opposition to it are skills that require years of knowledge building to develop. Even further, fascist disinformation campaigns are made more effective by this ignorance when they validate internalized setter-colonial values which these people obviously don’t know to be fascistic in the first place. There’s nothing convenient about being purposefully disempowered, and no shame in the inability to sacrifice the wellbeing of your dependents to participate in action (or “bite the hand”) if you’ve never been taught about organization.
When you say this, I can’t help but wonder if you’ve seen firsthand the immense levels of anxiety in working-class, blue-collar families as the failures of this system become undeniable and they are indeed unable to understand exactly what to do about it. They don’t need the system to completely fall apart to become motivated, many have felt insecure their entire lives and suffered the everpresent threat of homelessness or disability inflicted on them and their families. Those same people have been receptive to systemic change for a long time, and you’re right, they are victims of a system that holds their security hostage behind compliance. Maybe if you’ve only lived in an affluent suburb, it’s easier to entertain the idea that people only ever choose inaction, but I’m afraid this thinking is more limiting than the catharsis is worth. I’ve found it better to meet them with empathy and focus on language building or talking points that emphasize the insecurity of this system that they intuitively know to be true, and educate them on different risk levels of action. There isn’t a threshold where people like that will suddenly be receptive to systemic change, they’ve wanted it their whole lives and we’re seeing the consequences of their desire in the success of populist fascist rhetoric in this moment.
When you say this, I can’t help but wonder if you’ve seen firsthand the immense levels of anxiety in working-class, blue-collar families as the failures of this system become undeniable and they are indeed unable to understand exactly what to do about it.
I’m part of one of those families. I’ve lived among them my whole life. It’s not a moral judgement, just an observation on human behavior. And I was talking about those in the suburbs more than my own neighborhood.
Then you do get it to a degree, hopefully. This is moralistic though, the assertion that this reflects some natural human behaviour is as well. Suburbs are also not only home to the affluent, suburban sprawl has made them affordable and effective sites of working-poor isolation and precarity exactly because they have hindered the construction of high-density housing and are so difficult to survive in without a reliable flow of cash. If you’ve lived in communities of factory workers who, while tenuously secure, remember the 2008 Recession sharply, then you know what I mean when I say that there are liberals who understand that foundational systemic change is needed but do not have the time or energy to learn what that means in like terms to what socialist and anarchist theorists or activists use.
It really is unsatisfying to lose the option of discarding people in catharsis, but that is necessary to foster empowerment of workers who only have the tools they’ve been given.
Then you do get it to a degree, hopefully.
Look, so, I know I came across as dismissive in my first reply, but you’re also coming across as really condescending. Not sure if you’re aware, but if your intent is to reach out with empathy and understanding, you might want to consider that.
I get it. I’ve been reaching out to people for more than 30 years and watching them consistently go against their best interests for about the same amount of time. A little cynicism is natural.
I’m sure in a face to face we’d probably agree on most things, but this conversation doesn’t feel productive. Thanks for taking the time to reply and good luck out there.
When are leftists going to actually do something? Like. Sure. I’d be happy under Communism, but the momentum just isn’t there in America, unfortunately
Way to self-report your inactivity. I have never lived in a city in my country without multiple mutual aid organizations that took action to improve the material conditions of marginalized groups or participate in public demonstrations to platform their criticisms that were explicitly anarchist or socialist in their political orientation. I bet you have never actually taken the time to learn just how dependent the US system is on programs developed by Black Liberationist mutual aid groups, or how much of your environmental protections have resulted from indigenous and Native American resistance. Have some perspective ffs, just because you’re just now hearing about these things doesn’t mean they only appear in your line of sight.
There should not exist a class of people with such unaccountable power that they can do these things and get away with it.
This isn’t just about Epstein, Trump and all the other child rapists on those files (although they should definitely go to prison); it’s about the system that makes this possible, and puts the worst possible people in a position to do this and get away with it.
We were warned about greed, money, and corruption. This is the result of us ignoring the problem until it festers and turns into an infection that will eventually kill us. We cannot have a civilized society with these kind of wealth gaps while allowing money in politics.
PROSECUTE ALL OF THEM
Remember, the FBI found NOTHING to even start looking into an investigation.
Zero reasons.
This isn’t just about America, or MAGA, or even Trump. I always understood that this was an international enterprise, but as I read this stuff, I’m realizing that it was bigger and uglier than my worst imaginings.
I just read about a wealthy guy in a Detroit in the 70s who ran an Epstein-like operation on an island he purchased in one of the Great Lakes. He built a giant mansion on it, and started hosting underage sex parties for wealthy men. The article suggested that he might have been an inspiration for Epstein.
The point is that these people have always been here, and now that Epstein is gone, someone else will be taking his place. Nobody understands the scope of Epstein’s business better than his best friend Trump, who also recognizes how lucrative it is, and he is psychological incapable of resisting those riches.
He also has easy access to plenty of sex products. He has enormous detainment centers full or poorly documented children, separated from their families, lawyers, or anyone else who might care about them. They could be disappeared for a long time before someone notices, if ever. I’m sure we’ll find that the prettiest ones, of both sexes, are being scheduled for transfer…somewhere.
Putin has also kidnapped thousands of Ukrainian children, another source for East European girls, for those who aren’t turned on by brown children.
You can bet that someone is rebuilding an international child sex operation somewhere, and I’m betting that Trump is in on it.
Small correction, Epstein has been replaced for years, they’re not “out of business”.
Business is BOOMING.
we are unaware of the details, as we only get to know decades after the fact, if at all…
It gets even worse when you realize that the reason why these people don’t want social programs is because they need poor, vulnerable kids to prey on. They managed to convince people to literally sacrifice their children, albeit quite indirectly.
Makes you think about USAID…and wtf DOGE may have destroyed there. DOGE’s whole point was to burn as much evidence as fast as possible. Wonder how many of those 125+ year old SSI beneficiaries managed to show up to vote in 2024.
the reason why these people don’t want social programs is because they need poor, vulnerable kids to prey on. They managed to convince people to literally sacrifice their children, albeit quite indirectly.
Good observation. I just saw another comment that said they deliberately expose kids to violent content younger and younger, so they’ll grow up to be good fighting and occupying forces.
When AI/Robotics leads to a 50% unemployment rate (what do you think is the objective of the corporate giddiness of AI? They can’t wait to replace as many profit sucking employees as possible) the military is going to be one of the few income-producing employment paths left. Might as well start their “training” young, with lots of violent entertainment.
You can bet it doesn’t need to be rebuilt because it never stopped and Epstein was just part of an international ring that involved people from all kinds of positions of authority. In my city alone there were law enforcement , boy scout leaders, and Catholic priests all enabling each other and helping to cover up their crimes while flying people in from all over the world to do this fucked up shit.
Thats one city. Imagine that kind of fucked up shit has been happening all over the world for decades or maybe even centuries. No way in hell it ever stopped because Epstein was indisposed.
You know that plot in the original true detective about the Louisiana pedophile murder ring? It turns out that was almost certainly based on real stories.
I will say that it’s fucking insane to think about the fact that Trump and all of his oligarch friends have now legalized kidnapping and trafficking people thanks to ICE/DHS. The implications of what they’re almost certainly continuing to do out in the open have got to be pretty obvious, right?
Kidnapping so many people that you can just get away with just losing track of them? Why wouldn’t they just keep doing the same shit they’ve always done?
Do you have more information about the thing you describe around Detroit?
That’s the one. Fascinating story.
Check out the franklin scandal from the 80s. It might be the same CIA ring as Epstein.
and these are the people Iranian diaspora are begging to drop bombs on Iran. I bet their ancestors would be rolling in their graves because of the disgrace some of these diaspora Iranians have become.
The DOJ has pulled down the second file linked
No one is asking about the girls that did not make it back from the island. These criminals are lucky we are no longer in the medieval period
the point is that there is not a critical mass of people willing to risk everything to change things.
In the Medieval times it would be the same. Would the average person really want to try and storm castle against professional soldiers wearing plate armour?
These criminals are lucky we are no longer in the medieval period
Medieval Europe, a region and time period famous for its strict stance against rich old men having sex with children.
i see what you did there.
Clearly that wasn’t important enough to keep in his documents. What gets buried at sea, stays at sea.
Yes it’s terrifying, and so is that font you use
❤️justice.gov❤️/epstien🥰/files 🌈🤭
lol I appreciate the font roast. I love my font but I do respect others hate for it.
I love your font.
Same, that typeface is amazing.
It was a bit of light in the dark 💕
On a side note, we know that hundreds, sometimes thousands of children disappear in war zones. This has happened in Ukraine, is happening in Palestine. Keeping regions destabilised benefits monsters. I would argue most of the aggressors leaderships are proven monsters. Some of those are very well acquainted with Epstein.
Luigi 'em all
We need to take cadaver dogs to Trumps golf courses and epsteins properties
If this brings the western world down then good. Whatever happens, we cannot ignore it. This is what wealth in capitalists nations degenerates into.
well some people are resigning due to being named in the files except the people in the USA. i dont put much hope for USA, but other countries might be able to do it.
Because non capitalist, non Western nations don’t do anything like this, right? Junko Furata, African child soldiers, South Asian sex trafficking rings, Khmer Rouge…need we go on?
I’m fucken sorry, who has the only known example of a global paedophile ring implicating nearly all of its leaders? This is fucking unprecendented. No need to take it personally unless you are a capitalist.
Most organized crime in every nation practices sex trafficking, rape, prostitution and slavery of one kind or another. From the Yakuza to the Mexican cartels. It is unprecedented, it’s simply very visible. If you think Putin and his oligarchs or the Saudi royals, for example, don’t have similar organized immorality, then you’re naive. Nevermind past eras or horrors like imperial Japan, who stabbed babies in the womb, the Mongols whose torture and rape was historically prolific, the Aztecs human sacrifices, the list goes on and on. Oh and the world wide Catholic Church? The most prolific child sex abusers in known history?
None of those are global, and if the saudis are anywhere they’re probably also in the files which would just make that part of the same capitalist carnal club. I don’t see President Xi, or many non-US aligned leaders in here. Its not you or I, why are you so offended?
The Catholic Church and organized crime are both global…if you don’t even know that, why am I bothering with you?
Saudis are perfectly capable of maintaining their own network as they do their systems of slavery. Epstein was certainly not the only network like this, either.
You just sound like an anti west troll, spreading propaganda.
You sound like a westoid troll, “our government is doing it so can you imagine what the rest of the world is doing!? Omg!”
It’s just history. Seems you’re having a hard time that it doesn’t match your desire to see the west as uniquely horrible.
Competing networks, territorial splits. It’s visible in the files that this is a global thing and we see only the tip of an iceberg with one example group
I wonder what came first, the alignment of the current axes of power, or the elite pedophile gang rings that operate within them.
The pedophilia seems to be a dually motivated method to create suffering and political blackmail currency. In older times blood/virgin sacrifices etc haven’t needed the latter
Good points. However a big difference here is that this organized debauchery and perversions is weaponized to blackmail the most powerful countries in the world into supporting fascists in a small little country to do unspeakable things, that is also exporting that fascism to those home countries.
So the blackmail angle, to ultimately destroy the liberal democracies that these countries are built on, makes it a little different.
Blackmail definitely isn’t unique to this situation. The US has specific provisions for conflicts of interest to safeguard against this kind of blackmail because they know it happens. MAGA simply ignore it all and was allowed to. Power finds a way and blackmail is as old as politics.
I am sure it’s not unique, do we have any more historical examples we can point to though? All I have is the borgia pope.
Examples of blackmail in politics? Seriously?
Removed by mod
Of criminals.
That’s… Also bad? Why are you bringing that up?
Because the claim seemed to be that the west, and capitalism, is somehow unique in its capacity for doing very shitty things. It is not. Horribleness is a human thing found everywhere humans are and is not caused by capitalism or Western societies.
This is what I don’t get when folk online treat girls under 18 of any age as the same thing. A full grown person who’s a 30 something adult being with a 17 year old is exploitative, controlling and weird.
Being with an 8 year old is monstrous and, frankly, worthy of the death penalty.
I’m not excusing the first, but do people really see no difference? If you need a legal line in the sand to determine if it’s either totally fine or straight to the guillotine then maybe there’s something wrong with you.
Fuck, man, doing this to an adult is heinous. Doing it to a child? I’m not typically a violent person. But I’d kill them.
Same.
Both deserve jail time, and the only people who really care that much are usually from the former group distancing themselves from the latter.
Both are fucking gross. I don’t care who’s more evil, I both want them shot into the sun. Second one just might deserve a slower ride so they feel the burn a bit more.
Pedophilia is the attraction to children younger than 12-10 to around 3, this is what was occurring mainly within that island. Of course, there where women within their teens and adults which don’t technically qualify as pedophilia but are referred to it either way - which is incorrect.
Of course, pedophilia according to dsm5 on itself is listed as a mental disorder, nepophilia is also included. However, it is to say, attraction to those above 13 is not considered as a mental disorder. It also helps to know, that biologically such individuals are closer to adults than children, so it goes in hand with your last paragraph.
It is the sake that the legal line is essentially an “anchor” point, especially since we still believe in hoaxes which are related to growth and maturity. As such this incorrect view is projected to everyone even if the facts are different to what people expect.
In essence, the whole premise overall seems to be fueled by misinformation which is causing the whole “under 18” group to appear as one and the same, no matter the age. This is a major problem I agree, and the misuse of the word pedophilia tells a big story about it.
The reason you don’t hear more people explaining the difference between being a pedophile and being an ephibophile is that it makes you look like a pedophile.
Case in point.
there’s a joke that goes technically there are 3-4 different words for what the layman calls pedophilia, but the only people who know the difference are psychiatrists and pedophiles
That is true, it is the case for all minor attractions. Within the current situation, the most prominent issue is that information is not factually based and definitions are skewed. Like the original commenter had said, this introduces ambiguity.
I swear to god if fedi starts defending “ephebophilia” as if its meaningfully different enough to matter I’m going to start cutting dicks off lmao.
You’re missing the point here. This isn’t about defending whatever you seem to disagree on. Its the fact that you seem to think critical analysis is meaningless and “indifferent”. The first commenter had this message instilled, yet you are correlating this to things which where not even mentioned.
In respect to the post itself, then yes the age designation is meaningless as you cannot redefine rape and abuse. It is pretty clear that this comment thread was for a specific issue.
Why should it matter to society what the difference between the two is, if the better of the two is still bad enough that they should be hung by their toenails and beaten to death with a sack of hammers?
After a certain amount of bad, there’s not much you can do to punish it.
What reason do we have to discuss the difference, unless you think a 30 year old fucking a 17 year old is redeemable?
To answer your question, firstly consider the point of what is misinformation. Because this isn’t about the right or wrongs, but the factualities of science and countering misinformation. The function of this thread was to analyse the differences between different stages of age groups which are considered minors. This was highlighted by the root op.
What reason do we have to discuss the difference, unless you think a 30 year old fucking a 17 year old is redeemable?
Redirecting the question to you, why do you think it is reasonable to be going off topic?
It is clear the overall aim here is to reinforce the actualities. By introducing rhetorical questions such as “Why should it matter to society what the difference between the two is” it is an attack on education as a whole. Highlighting the differences and defining facts is the whole foundation of society. Of course, this isn’t ethics class, it is biology and psychology.
This is a comment chain in a post about the Epstein files in which the top comment in the chain is about a 30 year old fucking someone in their late teens.
Its entirely on topic, fuck off with your bad faith arguments.
This isn’t ethics class, or biology class, or sociology class…
Its a comment section about billionaire kiddy fuckers not getting the justice they deserve. Are you sure you’re in the right place?
but do people really see no difference? If you need a legal line in the sand to determine if it’s either totally fine or straight to the guillotine then maybe there’s something wrong with you.
This is a segment of the root op. This was the general scope of this. So I’ll advise you to quit with the straw men arguments and reread the whole passage.
an 18 dating a 16 is one thing, and whatever justification can be used then is not applicable to a 30yo dating a 16 yo, let alone any younger… and any argument made by those pedos deserves no response besides putting them on a list
The scary part, is now that Epstein is gone, it’s all just happening somewhere else.
I imagine he was one of many as well, and most of them probably aren’t dumb enough to fill their inbox with evidence.
Now we know why there are so many missing kids every year… Messed up
its not in thier best interest to eliminate ghislaine now, that would just make things worst, whichis why they are keeping her alive.
Maxwell 100 percent has dirt that would be released on her death, and they can’t get to whomever may be holding it. Epstein thought he had that too I’m sure, but Israeli intelligence betrayed him.
Anything less than death is far too little for these sick fucks.
Swift and quickly, this needs to end and be left in the past.
Epstein could very well still be alive
That’s what I’m saying. We tried that whole jail shit and things got fucky. We had/have enough evidence to get his contacts. Jeffrey Epstein Did Not Kill Himself.
Pole hangings
too easy of an out
I’m fine with an easy out.
I don’t need them to think about their actions. I don’t need them to stew and marinate in their guilt. I certainly don’t need them to have avenues to still exert influence.
They need to die, anything else is a distraction.
This is my position. Just kill them and move on, we need to make humanity better. There are people who need rescue and care.
Mind, we should keep monsters like Maxwell alive for awhile…so that we can get information about where the innocent have been trafficked. One entire year for all the actionable information that Maxwell and company are willing to trade. No bargaining, nor exceptions, just a delayed execution after the plea deal is struck. Without the deal, immediate execution after a brief trial.
…I am hoping that there are enough little black books, that delayed justice isn’t needed to save the innocent.
I hear ya , they’re eating our food and breathing our air and it seems they don’t feel remorse or shame.
💥🔨
Torturing the torturers won’t fix anything.
We should torture a few. As an example. But otherwise yes, quick executions.
How come? Lots of christians are afraid of hell
And, notably, it doesn’t seem to lower crime rates.
not talking about torture.
lock them up. let them only breathe bar-filtered air for the rest of their life
- Their buddies own the prisons
- Every day spent in prison cost money tax payer dollars fund
- Them breathing is a waste of oxygen
Only if you reject a large body of research on that matter conducted by hummanity over centuries. Ie. impaling seems a reasonable compromise between unpoetic justice and a nod the conservative traditional aproach.
