- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[Drops flyers with warning message saying “we will attack soon; flee, those who can!”]
[Attacks the refugee camps, oh and also hospitals]
100% assholes. 👌 Equal to or worse than the Russians, I swear to freaking God.
Israel casualty ratios make Russia look positively positive
They have provided proofs about the hospitals… and also the refugee camp is a big city. it’s just called that
Hamas should stop hiding in hospitals.
This wasn’t a hospital. They don’t a get a pass to bomb a refugee camp today because Hamas fighters hid in a hospital last week.
Hamas should stop hiding in refugee camps too…
Extend the logic, come on.
It is well known hamas hides among civilians. That is the main reason there is so much civilian collateral damage. Hamas themselves said it is their strategy ffs.
And Israeli officials (Netanyahu, Gvir, Smotrich, etc.) have stated that their goal is genocide. How do you feel about that?
No they havent lmao.
The worse netanyahu has said is that he prefers a one state solution and that hamas existing is useful in polarizing people towards that solution. That doesnt mean genociding arab muslims, because there are plenty in israel.
But no person in israel with any substantial support believes in genocide.
Is Hamas an army or a terrorist organization? Make up your damn mind
They are both. How is that hard to understand? It is a decentralized organization that fits both roles depending on the faction.
Stop making sense this is lemmy
You might as well have said “this” or “le bacon”
I see ads in TV that are pro Isreal now with Santa crying because of Hamas kidnapped people. I know it’s what about ism but not really moral high ground here when IDF literally wipes whole familes.
Its not what-about-ism.
Being accused of attacking civilians and saying the enemy is attacking civilians to divert attention is what-about-ism.
Crying that the enemy is attacking civilians while you are also attacking civilians is hypocrisy.
Calling out your own/allied government for attacking civilians and trying to hold them accountable even if the enemy attacks civilians as well is being a good person.
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i’ve heard only about 4% of israelis support bibi now. it’s like saying all americans are (whatever) because of trump. every religion feels like “the ones” and every hard right leader is horrible and deadly.
They don’t support him because he didn’t “secure Israeli safety”. From what I’ve seen, most people support the continuation of hostilities against Gaza, and many even support further occupation and restriction of rights for Gazans. A non-insignificant part of the population supports continued settlement in Palestinian territory, and the majority of the population have mandatory service in the IDF, where they will serve by perpetuating apartheid against the Palestinian people.
all Americans are nazis because they like trump 👍
Too many of your comments come across as anti-semitic, removing. Temporary ban.
Israel is trying to justify more murder
What Where are those ads Here we dont have anything similar and we would prolly wont even accept it
There’s a billboard in San Diego trying to convince commuters that Hamas is their problem too. Which is completely ridiculous.
They literally knew this was coming and attacked Israel anyway. They knew because the response was harsh and disproportionate last time and ten times prior to that. Blood is on both sides’ hands. Hamas hiding behind civilians is not helping either.
I also understand their desire to fight oppression, but it’s obvious they can’t and will never be able to win war of any kind. Their fight must be done through different means.
Bomb Hamas until you can see China through the crater, I really don’t care. But most people living in Gaza did not choose this and are just caught in the middle.
I imagine you would not be happy if your whole apartment building with your family inside was bombed because your neighbor assaulted an officer.
That’s my point, although not as cleanly stated. To me this whole thing is Hamas kicking hornets nest then running away and hiding while civilians get stung. And this repeats every few years. And no point has anyone sat down and thought: wait maybe this is a bad idea.
Yeah, they are terrorists. They don’t care about civilians. Big surprise.
The concerning thing is that Israel and US don’t seem to care about them either.
They are political party of Gaza. That’s why the recent ceasefire condition was for Hamas to leave Gaza
The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.
You don’t fight terrorism with bombs though. You fight it by humanizing their victims, using police raids by high level units capable of reducing collateral damage, and fulfilling the needs of the population that feels oppressed enough to create terrorists.
The thing with terrorism is the moment you show weakness they will keep exploiting that and repeating what works.
True, but how you show strength to counter that matters, especially to the civilians caught in the middle.
I get what you’re saying. And might even agree with elements. But it is easy to say it’s futile to fight when you aren’t in a position to need to. Doing nothing in this case means resigning not just yourself to being under their oppression, and not even just your friends and family. It is resigning your entire culture to a slow painful death by attrition. They are losing more and more land, rights, and any hope of progress. Like… if someone is strangling you, do you fight back, or just resign yourself to it? And that’s before we even get into the fact that those complying and not fighting are still being killed. Those not fighting and wanting to leave were lured to slaughter. Not fighting is an illusory choice.
Yes, quite a few resistance movements use the oppressor’s harsh tactics against them. India and Ireland come immediately to mind.
If someone invaded your home, locked you in a cage, and then started casually murdering your loved ones while calling it “mowing the lawn”, you would also be doing anything you could to make it stop.
Yes, Hamas knew this would happen, but for most people in Gaza, choosing to die hiding or choosing to die fighting is the only choice they get in life.
I agree with most of what you said but you’re very much misunderstanding the point of resistance insurgencies if you think their aim is to “win” in the conventional sense, i.e. conquer and hold territory. Despite the propaganda, death and destruction, Hamas are fighting the IDF to a strategic standstill. Israel’s stated aim is the complete destruction of Hamas and they are nowhere near achieving it, which alone will be win enough in Hamas’ eyes and will strengthen them no doubt. One purported goal for Hamas was to inflict a situation so awful that there is no way the world could just return to normal after it, which I would argue will have happened by the time the dust blows over. They also aimed to stop Arab-Israeli diplomatic normalisation, which has been set back at least 20 years or so. Of the two belligerents, I would argue Hamas has actually been more successful in its aims.
So it’s not sad and shouldn’t be fought against?
it is sad. and a who city should not be levelled in response. that’s just common sense.
which is obviously why there is a concerted and expensive campaign of you tube adverts to create a counter narrative to around 10,000 kids being bombed and killed.
What’s your alternative?
Do you really not see any other alternatives to what is happening?
sounds like a lack of empathy and imagination. both make talking to you redundant.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there’s not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
Fighting unlawful combatants is one of the hardest thing in war and has arguably never been solved completely.
So, yeah, there’s not really lots of clear cut alternatives.
I’m open for suggestions. What’s your suggestion?
You can only see genocide as a viable solution?
I’m open for suggestions. What’s your suggestion?
Move to Gaza
Well the Israelis did exactly that
Somehow, I get the impression that you aren’t about to argue that what has happened to the Palestinians is sad and that they should be fighting against the people who did it to them.
Somehow I noticed that no one here is giving any real arguments and just keeps going for personal attacks. Makes you wonder.
Guess you’ll have to take your wits all the way to the New York Times
And yet no actual argument given
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I can tell you without a doubt that as long as the US backs Israel this will not happen.
Yup. Two words: Vee, and toe.
US backing leaves Israel invulnerable tbh
Aw man. My original comment was removed for incivility. Apologies to the mods. Thanks for not banning me on the spot. That’s appreciated.
Gotta say it’s difficult to remain civil in the face of a genocide.
What my original comment said, without the incivility, was:
I hope Israel and it’s military end up at the international court at the Hague and go to jail for crimes against humanity and that the world finally tells Israel to back off and go back to the borders that were drawn in the 1967 UN Security Council resolution.
You are referring to the return of the “land for peace” idea from '67; but, Israel engaging in that peace process and returning said land (that was won by conquest during a defensive war in '48) merely resulted in the '69 war and '73 invasion. Since then, Arab leaders have completed a 180° about-face from their stated position of “no recognition, no peace, and no negotiations.” By beginning to normalize with Israel, they have also begun to remove the need for a “land for peace” process, in large part because of the land Israel has already given back.
Ok well I might have gotten confused over what was signed over which year.
What I was basically trying to say is there was an agreement at some point over the land borders. I might have been the original ones or some other ones later. In any case Israel needs to revert what they’ve done and give the land back until they go back to that border that was agreed upon.
Although, I doubt that even that will bring peace to the region after what they’ve done.
lmao mods here ban for anything nowadays
I wasn’t banned. My comment was deleted because I wasn’t very civil. Lots of f-bombs and stuff.
I think it’s alright to try to encourage a more civil discussion where we can argue by challenging each other’s arguments without using profanity.
fuck off and go back to the borders that were drawn in the 1967 UN Security Council resolution.
Yeah I ran across this awhile ago posted by Björk, and have been wondering if it’s factual. Paints a bit of a different picture of the motivations of Palestinians in general if true:
I’d be interested to see the 2023 version.
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If I would have to put it in order of damage in this war i would just switch hamas and US
At what point does this go from being a counter terrorist operation to a genocide?
A long time ago.
🔫 Always has been
It’s been a genocide since the Nakba. The US just refuses to call it that because we’re funding the damn thing.
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You don’t get these numbers without a complete disregard for civilian life, the rate they are killing average Gazans is astounding, they are only barely upholding a thin veil of plausible deniability.
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I mean the bit where they killed their own hostages because they were so horny for killing civilians made it pretty obvious if you weren’t already convinced
about a month and half ago
Like atleast 10+ weeks ago
At what point is a people who’ve been violently relocated into an open air prison (more densely populated thank Tokyo) responding to their attackers with violence in kind terrorism ?
Israel is going to remove Hamas
A lot of comments are saying that hamas hides behind civilians but from what I see and read hamas and civilians are a melting pot that is interwined due to the extreme oppression in gaza strip. Any palestinian civilian could understand and help or even just not condemn totally hamas due to their conditions and prolly Israel gladly label as hamas any slightly suspect palestinian top
If you know that your enemy is hiding behind civilians and still kill the civilians, you’re the bad guy.
It’s a piss poor excuse for murder.
So don’t retaliate? I think the Israeli response is over the top but should they never respond if their attackers fire from within civilian areas and don’t care at all about civilians on their own side?
Yes is basically what i said in the last sentence. Sometimes u just can’t untie civilians and fighters, especially when you are actively radicalizing civilians daily
Sometimes u just can’t untie civilians and fighters,
Then you figure out another way of getting to your enemy. There are rules to War.
You don’t get a ‘get out of jail free card’ excuse to murder civilians.
especially when you are actively radicalizing civilians daily
Bombing them in refugee camps will do the same thing. That is, if they survive the bombing.
Wait maybe I am expressing myself wrong, I agree with you 100% and all the words i was writing were to confirm your pov :)
Wait maybe I am expressing myself wrong, I agree with you 100% and all the words i was writing were to confirm your pov :)
Astroturfers will use debating tactics like seeming to be positive about a point while actually wording it so that it comes off as slightly negative, etc., especially so if they’re expecting a lot of pushback.
I wasn’t sure if you were doing that or not, but the ‘attitude’ of my reply was based on your original comment…
A lot of comments are saying that hamas hides behind civilians but from what I see and read hamas and civilians are a melting pot that is interwined due to the extreme oppression in gaza strip. Any palestinian civilian could understand and help or even just not condemn totally hamas due to their conditions and prolly Israel gladly label as hamas any slightly suspect palestinian top
In your original comment you didn’t specify your own opinion of why that was right/wrong, you just stated it as fact, and left us to assume either way.
So my suggestion would be next time to elaborate more with a second paragraph, either agreeing or disagreeing with what you stated in the first paragraph.
In their defense, it was pretty clear to me what they meant from the get-go and your replies seemed unnecessarily hostile.
In their defense, it was pretty clear to me what they meant from the get-go and your replies seemed unnecessarily hostile.
I truly don’t think I was being unnecessarily hostile, as I did assume they were astroturfing in a stealthy sort of way (as I described). For that matter, the fact that you’re defending them makes me suspect that you too are astroturfing to protect them.
The onus is on the speaker/commentor to speak fully, if they want to be understood fully, so that assumptions are not made, and misunderstanding do not happen. Trust me, I learned about that recently myself here on Lemmy lol.
I stand by what I said.
Though You’re mostly right, it’s missing a key part: the Israeli government has actively worked to make it this way, sponsoring Hamas with money and help because they wanted this. If you have an extremist organization so intertwined in the civil population, you can just go and murder them all.
Hamas is evil, but the Israeli government is arguably worse
Thanks for the add! Now is perfect
Hamas is literally the government of Gaza so
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if everyone is Hamas Israel can justify killing everyone
thats what i see everyday
An army should go around civilians to get to their enemy, not through them.
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That’s pretty fucked up
The only world record you do not want to achieve without looking like a complete monster. And yet Israel managed to do just that.
That is not even close to the world record. Killing 250 people in a day isn’t good, obviously, but it is not even a rounding error compared to real warfare.
Just considering conventional weapons, the firebombing of Tokyo on the night of 9–10 March, 1945 killed approximately 100,000 people.
I’m just glad we didn’t reach numbers this insane. But still, it should be zero.
Very true, but they allegedly arent at war, and the Israelis are meant to be the good guys.
I’m pretty sure this is a war. At least I’ve heard Israeli officials describe the current conflict as a war on Hamas. I don’t know of any war in which civilians aren’t negatively affected.
Israel can’t really stop fighting Hamas yet. According to the BBC, Hamas is still receiving new weapons via their tunnel system. They apparently also have an extensive weapons manufacturing system within Gaza itself.
Don’t worry mate, Israel has plenty of people supplying them with weapons.
That’s a big family
“with Palestinian authorities reporting that 250 people have been killed”
Palestinian authorities (at least in Gaza) = Hamas. But I’m sure they have no reason to lie.
Only 250 Palestinians in 24 hours? ngl, that sounds like rookie numbers for Israel.
Come on guys, the Holocaust was proof that one can do better! Don’t aim to just be equal to the nazis, Israel; aim to surpass them!
Wish karma acted quicker.
Rip
