i have it on good authority from about half of lemmy that china is a wonderful place where everyone feels safe and actually there never were any uyghurs, since that’s just western propaganda
itt: people confirming the premise. ni hao baybeeee
Being banned from .lm is a badge of honor.
Here is your Lemmy ban medal;
Aw Fuck yah, a chucky cheese token
Also North Korea is what all countries should strive to emulate.
No, seriously, I’ve seen a tankie on here say that.
Wdym? Haven’t you seen the citizens of the democratic people’s republic of Korea cheer and cry when they see their beloved leader Kim Jong Un?
Also, did you know that countless people defect from South Korea to the democratic people’s republic of Korea???
/s
The second point is legitimately what someone told me on lemmygrad. No, they explicitly said “today”. They were not just talking about the 50s-60s.
I wonder how many of them think they ally live like a North Korean peasant?
Also, any source that disagrees with you, biased sources like Wikipedia, are just Fake News!
I’ve heard that too
After living and working in the US and now living and working in China (no not a teacher), I can say my life is definitely better in China than it was in the US. And no I’m not a bot or paid CCP stooge. Just a normal person lucky enough to have worked and lived in many places around the world.
There are too many things to mention why China is better besides the obvious like healthcare, social security, infrastructure, green energy, technology, cost of living.
I still don’t understand why western media portray China as a communist hell hole, worse than North Korea. Clearly no one bothers to really understand how China works.
And in regards to safety, yes it’s one of the safest countries in the world. Actually when you ask Chinese what is good about China, safety is one the core answers. No school shootings, no need for metal detectors at schools. I can leave my electric scooter unlocked with my phone on it, come back an hour later and everything is still there. If I tried that in my birth country, it would be gone by the time I turned around.
Thailand for example is much stricter and run by a military government. When I worked there, one morning we had tanks rolling down the street when the military overthrown the government. And don’t say anything about the playboy king or his family.
Anyway, I’ll get downvoted but if you are from any of the 62 visa free countries that can visit China, obviously not the US, I recommend you visit and have your eyes and awareness opened. Or just stay in your ‘China bad’ bubble.
China is a decent place to live, but just as capitalist as anywhere else, and is authoritian (again, like many other places, the US included in that to a decent extent).
And no doubt I’d prefer living there over the US. You couldn’t pay me to visit the US.
What drives me crazy though, is MLs and the Chinese state, claiming that they’re socialist.
I hecking wish they were… :(
ctrl-f uyghur
it’s so easy!
Ctrl-f western propaganda.
Keep your brain washed!
Why people like china? They are trying to solve global warming problem. They are bringing innovations at scale and low cost. Their state is battling some capitalism schemes, like price inflation of goods and housing. Their billionares are little bitches of the party. Not the other way around. People there generally feel safe, better salaries compared to its neighbours, better medicine etc.
If usa or europe or russia rules the world, humanity is fuked. If china rules then everything will be fine.
You know other, better countrys exist outside of these 2, right?
better salaries compared to its neighbours, better medicine etc.
[CITATION NEEDED.]
i guess uyghurs aren’t human.
that tracks with chinese policy.
out of curiousity, how much do you get paid to post on lemmy? is it a decent gig?
I mean, we all know you’re making more at Langley, but at what cost?
Oh, right, your soul.
How paranoid do you need to be to think anyone is paying to propagandize to a small collection of grumpy middle aged autists, tech geeks, and trekkies?
Like maybe you think someone’s understanding of the world is downstream of that propaganda from elsewhere, but do you really think we have anyone actually getting paid by China or the CIA on this deserted island of the internet?
must be morning in china
Same reason the US has the most prisons even though it’s aiming to be the freest country.
Systemic racism to control the marginalized and ensure the poor stay with very few viable options?
It was always from the very start meant to maximized the freedom of the Landed classes, nobody else.
gotta ensure that reserve army of labor, otherwise how the capitalists gonna keep profit?
Don’t make me tap the sign.
The sign: “Whatabout the USA”
even though it’s aiming to be the freest country.
lol
They aren’t trying to be communist, they are trying to be “Communist with Chinese elements” which is just capitalism. Similar to how they are a “Democracy with Chinese elements” which is just a dictatorship.
Interesting
deleted by creator
Funding the military so they can quash any rebellions from people having nothing left to lose deciding to rise up. Did you know that the founding fathers intended for there to be no standing army for this very reason? I just learned this the other day.
Jefferson said a central bank was more dangerous to our liberty than a standing army. They also basically told us to overthrow the government and rewrite the constitution in our situation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Unfortunately the “no standing army” thing was a product of a certain age. When the fastest an army could move is via sail or a trotting horse, you can get away with not having a standing army. In the months it took your enemy to reach you, you could train and prepare. Standing armies always had some advantage, but it was actually possible to maintain a viable defense without one.
But today? The enemy army will be occupying your capital before you can even send all the draft notices out. Imagine if Ukraine had had no standing army when Russia invaded. And that’s just with how quick ground armies can move. We haven’t even mentioned aircraft and paratroopers!
Sure, there are a handful of countries with no standing army today, but they’re countries that simply don’t need a credible defense. Iceland has no army. But an Iceland without an army would perform in war only slightly worse than an Iceland that was as devoted to war as the historical Spartans. Iceland could tax themselves into oblivion and put every citizen they could in uniform, but they just don’t have the population to credibly deter an invasion by a major power. The only countries without standing armies today are very small countries that, due to their population, are completely dependent on outside allies for their defense.
They should’ve banned it in the Constitution then. Though given how bloodthirsty Americans turned out to be, we probably would’ve amended it anyway.
People will well paying jobs and money for fun stuff are less likely to start a civil war
Depends on what part of Mainland China, as there’s glaring class struggle within. Of course, anyone says otherwise will have Xi quietly sending in riot police.
Cos playing at communism at best. China is a totalitarian fascist state.
Based
China does not claim to be a fully communist society yet. Official ideology describes the country as being in a long-term developmental phase of socialism; communism is portrayed as a future goal. However, if they continue as they have been treating people like mere numbers, keeping them in poverty under total control, while billionaires amass wealth they will never achieve that anyway. In a society that ideologically advocates for overcoming class distinctions and capitalist exploitation, enormous private fortunes exist. Entrepreneurs like Jack Ma have at times amassed wealth running into the billions. At the same time, the Party controls key sectors of the economy and can exert massive pressure on companies. That transitional phase has gone spectacularly wrong. That is not how communism is defined. Private property is accepted only as long as it remains compatible with the Party’s political interests. This is very convenient for the government: it can harness the productivity and innovation of capitalism without adopting the political power structures of a liberal political system.
Their own brand of capitalism is one tied to a penultimate patriotic goal, where all enterprises are convinced by the Party they are working to achieve supremacy by 2049 where by that time, the Mainland topples and humiliates what they see as American hegemony and exceptionalism, while expecting the rest of the world – including developing countries who are now tied to the Mainland through heavy imports – to acknowledge its being figuratively the Middle Kingdom.
This is the China that can say “no”, and a book that once vigorously supported the idea of confronting American hegemony and was banned briefly, is now cashing in on the winnings as its authors are seen as prophetic.
Oh Jesus Christ. They’re as communist as you can humanly get currently. I hate this crap where people go “well xyz isn’t full communist”. No country can or will be 100% communist, socialist, or capitalist. It’s basically impossible. They can claim whatever they want. Half the shit they say is made up anyways.
But. they are at communist as possible.
No they aren’t. Try actually reading about how their economy works. The whole thing is a scam to keep their form of state capitalism.
The people who wanted to make China communist, as in people having collective ownership over the economy, were thrown out of power by the Dengists who ostensibly believed that they needed to use capitalism to build towards socialism. Except they’ve never done anything to actually implement socialism. In China everyone is still a wage cuck just like everywhere else.
Have you considered, although everyone is still a wage cuck, the government is popular and therefore “proletarian socialist”? (/s)
But. they are at communist as possible.
Educate yourself. China is de-facto the biggest and most successful capitalist economy on this planet, under a totalitarian regime that uses “communist” in their name like televangelists use “christian”.
Poop fart and fart poop
Because “Communist States” are just State Capitalism with red branding, next question.
Why does my girlfriend call all the food I make slop?
Maybe improve your cooking?
Maybe
Nah, just pivot to sloppy joes and own it
Have you checked you’re not a dog?
BASED
I do define them like just capitalists with extra steps and an unusual fascination for red and yellow.
First and foremost, there’s no such thing as a “communist country”. Communism is a very late stage of socialist development when all class contradictions have been abolished. We don’t know what that might look like, but the consensus is that we can’t really talk about a country being communist but rather an overall state of the world.
Secondly, China has a fairly good grip over its billionaire class. They don’t have the class power their class has in the US, Europe, or the rest of the western capitalist world. The capitalist class in China is subject to the wishes of the working class represented by the party with its over 100 million members.
100% they have a class based system it’s just not talked about.
They do have a bourgeoisie class and a peasent class.
They have doctors, lawyers, construction workers, government employees, billionaires and unprecedented wealth within families.
Then they have the peasant class the rice paddy farmers, the package sorters, the food delivery drivers, the minimum income workers living in cramped apartments and the unemployed.
Yes, that’s why it’s not communist. But it is socialist, because the working class controls the government and holds the reins of the economy.
The 200 million rural farmers control the country!
No wait, the 400 million service workers control the country!
No wait, it is the 500 million middle class that control the country!
No wait, it is the 130,000 of the wealthy class that controls the country!
No wait, it is the 320 billionaires that control the country!
No wait, it is the 2,878 Congressional members that control the country!
No wait, it is seven leaders who control the country!
No wait, it is Xi who controls the country!
wacky shit, aint it.
Yes, exactly like the working class in the US controls the government and holds the reins of the economy.
Except not. Tell me more about how ignorant you are about political economy theory and how China actually functions.
ohhhhhhhhhhh it’s evolved. I’m going off of an old system:
Class structure and earnings
In the last half century, China’s class structure has undergone a major transformation, evolving from a simple system of three socialist strata (cadres, workers, and peasants) in the pre-reform era to a hybrid class system mixing capitalist features with aspects of the previous socialist class system. The Chinese market-oriented reforms and the expansion of the private sector changed property relations and generated a class structure with striking similarities to that of other capitalist societies (Bian Citation2002). Previous research has adopted multiple approaches to understand the class dynamics and earnings in transitional China. Some research on urban China applies Goldthorpe’s neo-Weberian class theory to the Chinese context (Zou Citation2015) while others have adapted Wright’s neo-Marxist class framework to explain class-based earnings inequality (Li, Qin, and Chen Citation2012; Lin and Wu Citation2009). Lin and Wu (Citation2009) compared different class schema and concluded that a modified neo-Marxian class approach (albeit one that incorporated hukou) best captured the evolving class structure in transitional China. They also demonstrated that class has become the major source of earnings disparities among Chinese workers.
Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21620555.2021.1878019#d1e358
Hukou: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou
Hukou is incorporated into almost every Chinese socioeconomic and political system
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
The capitalist class in China is subject to the wishes of the working class represented by the party with its over 100 million members.
LMAO. Do you actually believe that garbage yourself?
The simple truth is that China is the most efficient capitalist country in the world right now - they combine a totalitarian regime with a huge economy and an actual self-serving but smart understanding of capitalism. They are simply better at playing that game that the rest of the world.
What we don’t see from the outside is to what degree becoming rich enables you to take influence on the political system. What we do see is that the Chinese “communist” (muhaha) party has an iron grip on the country, but also that they are strongly intertwined with what you call “the capitalist class” (i.e. rich parasites).
an actual self-serving but smart understanding of capitalism
Welcome to marxism-leninism. Socialist state building is about achieving progress for the people. That can mean building up production forces and engaging in capitalism, as long as the capitalist class is subject to the peoples wishes.
as long as the capitalist class is subject to the peoples wishes.
Yeah I think that’s the part where you missed the news flash about the Chinese state.
Cope
In what way? There’s nothing to cope about
You know exactly what way.
Imagine living in Lebanon and not being a millionaire…
Even normal people there live in houses worth billions of Lebanese Pounds.
China has stopped being communist for a while now, it’s developed into some flavour of capitalist society though I don’t remember much about the different variants. It’s certainly top heavy though like the USA.
Stopped being socialist*
They were never communist.
Words have different meanings in different contexts. Yes, China isn’t the perfect theoretical communist utopia predicted by Marx. But in the English language, people call the type of government system used by Stalin and Mao “Communist.” A word was needed for their systems, as it was clearly different from capitalist countries. And Stalin and Mao themselves called their systems Communist. And their systems aspired to the vision of Marx. They both considered themselves to be Communist and fully identified with the term. So we call that system Communist. Whether it actually lives up to the theoretical model of Communism is irrelevant. When people use the word “Communist,” they are referring to the type of government created by Stalin, Mao, etc. This is theoretical vs applied communism. You want to only apply to the word to theoretical communism. But the English language uses it to apply to both theoretical and applied communism.
Capitalism looks very little like the theoretical models crafted by people like Adam Smith, yet we still call Western governments capitalist. Often the theoretical proves impossible to implement, so the label gets applied to the practical implementation, not the theoretical ideal.
When you say, “but China isn’t Communist!” you’re not actually accomplishing anything. You’re just arguing that a definition that has been commonly and widely used for over a century at this point is invalid. People have been using “Communism” to refer to both applied and theoretical Communism since at least the 1920s. I know you want to only use the word to apply to theoretical Communism, but the whole world moved on from your viewpoint a long time ago.
So it was a communist country at one point?
The party claimed to be communists but they need a socialist dictatorship to put systems in place to become Communist.
The USSR was the same. The term for them was socialist dictatorship.
It declared itself communist but history has shown the most countries have gotten is to socialist.
Ask Jack Ma what being a billionaire in China is worth.
It’s worth $30 billion.
Being humbled by the state while remaining a billionaire does not justify the existence of the billionaire capitalist class.
Well yeah, he criticized a government labeled “communist”. He’s lucky to be alive. But, he’s still a billionaire and has homes in half a dozen countries.
I’m just trying to connect your reasoning here. Are you implying that billionaires should be brought to heel by popular power or private property should be respected? Do you believe property is an essential right that should give you a megaphone or not? I’m just saying billionaires don’t particularly laugh at Chinese state directives as in the meme.
Which part is causing confusion?
I dunno man, I put words together and put a question mark behind them. I don’t know if that means anything to you or not.
Now I’m the confused one
Now?
Everything I’ve said in this post so far is my genuine opinion and positively intentioned… I at no time would be sarcastic or engage in bait/intentionally bad faith in the shitposting community.
So much ignorance on display here in this thread. People talking out of their ass with no clue or care why and how China has implemented economic reforms and development policy. No clue what communists even are much less the details of how they manage the economy of a developing socialist state within a capitalist global economy. Just thought-terminating clichés about billionaires and so-called “state capitalism”.
Fun fact: you can actually read the justifications for why socialist countries managed by proletariat governments have implemented limited market systems in their economies in China, Vietnam, Cuba, USSR, even Korea. Their thoughts are public!
I might go one further and suggest this is why the “Just tax the billionaires” line never actually delivers the goods. It’s a classic Belling-The-Cat problem, because its very easy to say “Tax the Billionaires” but its very difficult to move forward with a policy that does the actual thing, without billionaires pooling their resources to prevent you from accessing any of the levers of power.
You need a certain collectivist worldview to even attempt the problem of regulating and sanctioning a bourgeois class. And when you’re brainwashed by some combination of out-of-context Adam Smith quotes and reskinned Milton Friedman / Ayn Rand videos, good fucking luck.
Fun fact: you can actually read the justifications for why socialist countries managed by proletariat governments have implemented limited market systems in their economies in China, Vietnam, Cuba, USSR, even Korea. Their thoughts are public!
If you know where to look and you trust the source material and you’ve got the patience to work through the finer details, sure.
But that’s the sort of learning you typically need to tackle in grade school if you want it to stick. Open minds and lots of free time are necessary to get this kind of rigorous political education. By the time you’ve had your head crammed full of cable news fearmongering and employer-sponsored propaganda, you’ll be allergic to the very idea of taking a book like Fanshen or The Bolivian Diary at face value.
I somewhat echo you feelings on ignorance and “China bad!”, but definitely do not agree with the characterisation of China as a “proletariat government”.
The workers do not have meaningful democratic control over society in China, and to claim they do requires some next-level mental gymnastics.
If one believes in control of society by the workers, as socialists ought to by definition (at least, by my understanding), one really ought not tout China as a government to emulate…
What do you mean? Are the Chinese billionaires a good thing?
China did not press a magical “make billionaires from clay” button. It enacted market reforms, after the failure in leaping directly from a largely feudal economy to a collectivist one, to progress the development of its economy within the global capitalist market system. Billionaires are an unfortunate symptom of the condradictions inherent to this system. Unlike most countries, however, the chinese government recognizes these billionaires as the threat to the public that they are, and tends to be much more cautious about them as a result, resisting their influence in state affairs.
I think the billionaires are just a symptom of the capitalist global economy. China uses the wealth generated by the billionaires to further their goals of working towards communism.
Interesting, and I thought it was the workers who generated the wealth. Perhaps it should not belong to them after all then. Why tax the billionaires at all if they’re the ones generating the wealth?
They’re a capitalist country.
IMHO China is a more capitalist country than the USA. 12h workdays 6 days a week (996), with overtime 16h, no labour rights, no representation, only the party gets that. Flooding the markets with goods sold at a loss, to drive the other countries’ industry out of business. The taxpayer subsideses the loss. And once China is the monopoly, they can charge what they want.
IMO these MAGA cunts should wet themselves at the sight of China. After all, China is more capitalist than the USA, lol.
996 has been ruled illegal since around 2021 with a great crackdown in 2025
IMHO China is a more capitalist country than the USA. 12h workdays 6 days a week
Communism doesn’t mean that everybody can slack off. If people don’t work enough it’s difficult for them to catch up with Capitalism, like USSR and Eastern Europe have shown.
All that work has paid off for China. Unlike any other country they have a shot at being independent from the West.
Capitalism means that the people who control the means of production also control politics. That’s not true in China, so that people there can hope for a better life despite AI and robots.
All that work has paid off for China.
True, they’re minting new billionaires faster than any other country in the world.
They are not treated like Iraq or Iran. That alone is a success, for every citizen.
The difference to the West is that the party stands above the billionaires. That means they have working healthcare despite billionaires.
We have working healthcare in most of the west, with fewer billionaires. I’d in fact say much of the west has even better healthcare than China.
The US doesn’t, but then both the US and China are ultracapitalist nightmares.
How exactly are the billionaires good for China’s healthcare?
Compare China to other countries that were poor in the 1970ies and China becomes impressive.
The USSR tried without billionaires and they are gone.
Europe has good healthcare because we had to look good compared to eastern Europe. We are cutting costs and in 10 years we likely will be much closer to the US system.
And China will also have to cut costs when having an aging society really hits them. Rampant capitalism won’t save them there.
Rampant capitalism won’t save them there.
That’s why they have an advantage over the west. They can put a limit to the Capitalism.
Your saying the working class of China has worked really hard for the ruling class in order to speed run capitalism and this proves they can become independent of the West?
Also, what you describe is not capitalism, it is fascism (state and corporate merger on policy) The answer is China has many fascist qualities just like the USA. Also, they are great because of the US not despite it.
this proves they can become independent
Technically the variety of Chinese businesses proofs that and not the amount of wealth.
Also, what you describe is not capitalism, it is fascism (state and corporate merger on policy) The answer is China has many fascist qualities
I wanted to say that in China the party holds the power and not the billionaires. Though nowadays billionaires can become members and corruption has given party members billions.
That just it, their goal is not to become independent. They wouldn’t be propping up the entire western world right now if they wanted independence.
Nowadays China has produced more billionaires than the US for the third straight year in a row with no signs of slowing down.
They don’t want to be dominated by the West. Propping up the West makes the West dependent. Still, China could stop propping at any time.
We don’t need donations, we just need to tax them at the same level we’re taxing regular workers. And since their fortunes are growing at double digit rates, a small annual wealth tax wouldn’t hurt them either.
We need to bring back the tax brackets from the 1950’s
The community allows for the accumulation of wealth by providing services, security and labor. Therefore the community is entitled to a portion of the accumulated wealth in form of taxation.
No man is an island, and nobody becomes a billionaire from their own labor. Community matters.
