China launched its most extensive war games around Taiwan on Monday to showcase Beijing’s ability to cut off the island from outside support in a conflict, testing Taipei’s resolve to defend itself and its arsenal of U.S.-made weapons.
The Eastern Theatre Command said it had deployed troops, warships, fighter jets and artillery for its “Justice Mission 2025” exercises to encircle the democratically governed island, conduct live fire and simulated strikes on land and sea targets, and drills to blockade Taiwan’s main ports.
The live-firing exercises will continue on Tuesday across a record seven zones designated by China’s Maritime Safety Administration, making the drills the largest to date by total coverage and in areas closer to Taiwan than previous exercises. The military had initially said artillery firing would be confined to five zones.
WHHHAAAATTTTTT??!??!!!?
But all Lemmy.ml dwellers said China is not an imperialist country!!!
This must be some shitty western propaganda!!!
Did you read the fine print?
.ml: “China is not imperialist*”
"*because all of Asia, all islands, all African countries and all South American countries already belong to China"
More CIA propaganda
Prove it.
You just made a falsifiable statement.
Don’t just spread tankie shit. Prove it.
Removed by mod
chinas stance towards the south china sea and taiwan is what this exaggeration for the purposes of comedy is based on
Better than America claiming they own all of South America’s oil and resources
No, actually exactly as bad as that.
Let us repeat this: China is as shitty as USA right now is. And in fact this is a recent development: USA used to be much better than China before Trump fucked everything up.
If China was good, they would suggest in UN that Taiwan’s independence is ratified. That they consistently fail to do so, and in fact actively block anyone else from doing it, is a clear display of their malevolence on this planet.
Another proof of their evil is of course their consistent support on Russia’s imperialist aggression on Ukraine.
I just want to point out that this is not like for example Italy invading Africa. ROC was the government of mainland China before the revolution, they fled to Taiwan which used to be a part of China. Both ROC and the PRC think they are the true rulers of all of China, meaning both Taiwan and Mainland. If ROC would be militarily stronger, it would probably plan to invade the PRC.
People may or may not think that that is imperialist, but at least it should be taken into consideration.
and both positions are wrong. nobody ever said that the ROC wasn’t imperialist in the exact same way
Parent comment is also wrong, and as usual things are much more complicated than made out to be. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Country_on_Each_Side plus China essentially pressuring Taiwan into adhering to the status quo so as to not lose its casus belli.
Does this make Estonia an imperialist country in your opinion?
Why is it that talkies are having a very hard time understanding a difference between training to invade vs training to defend?
From the article itself:
The exercises began 11 days after the U.S. announced $11.1 billion in arms sales to Taiwan
How is China the aggressor here? Imagine if Cuba suddenly imported $11bn in weapons from Russia, do you think that would warrant no reaction from the US administration?
“I had to kill him, officer, he was attending self defence classes with the intent to hit me.”
/s
Who has China killed exactly by doing military training exercises?
Do you believe Taiwan is going to invade the PRC?
No, but in the likely case of a USA-started miltary conflict or economic blockade of China in the region, Taiwan is essentially an unsinkable USA aircraft carrier full of military bases, and is likely to collaborate with USA aggression. After all, Taiwan routinely carries out similar military drills with the USA.
Just like Russia was doing completely innocent military exercises near the Ukrainian border in the run up to waging all out years long war on its much smaller neighbour. Oops, sorry, no, you don’t call it that, you call it a three day “special military operation”.
/s in case you missed it.
Again the angry boy complaining about the imaginary invasion of Taiwan!!
What kind of military exercises are they doing?
Be specific. What scenario are they practicing here?
Per the article:
cut off the island from outside support in a conflict
So, preventing US interference in case of a conflict. This says nothing about invasion.
Soooo China is building sophisticated, highly specialized barges for establishing a beachhead without a harbor and moving heavy machinery across. These would be pretty helpful in a sustained campaign against Taiwan.
These ships happen to be able to connect to the many Chinese “civilian” roll on-roll off (roro) ferries that are built to military spec and can handle Chinese tanks.
These “civilian” roros happen to participate in military exercises.
Considering this all took place well before the arms deal, that’s probably a good reason why China can be considered the aggressor. Maybe the $11.1 billion in arms deals is in response to that?
There’s also xi jinping saying that the unification of Taiwan and China is “unstoppable” in a speech today, right after these military exercises.
“No, you see, my side is the good one and the defensive one in the upcoming war”
-Every nation in every single war in history
Whoever is trying to capture territory from the other side is the invader by definition, putting the other side on the defence, as per definition.
Are you saying Estonia wants to invade Russia? Dude’s clown costume’s made from diamonds
Oh, sorry, I forgot, when did China invade Taiwan? Or anyone for that matter, since China hasn’t participated in a single war in 40 years.
Expansionism can happen without official war declaration, but still a conflict. See: Tibet, Honk Kong, parts of Mongolia
You mean the Taiwanese claim over such territories? I agree, it’s disgusting
Thank God the PRC liberated Hong Kong from British colonial rule!
Are you worried Taiwan is going to invade Beijing? Is chinas army that incompetent?
I mean, it would be cool if they did but I don’t think even corrupt Chinese generals are that worthless.
No, I’m not worried Taiwan is going to invade Beijing. I’m worried that the USA will attempt to put in place a seafare blockade against China together with the puppet nations of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, attempting to generate a casus belli for China against either of them and to manufacture another Ukraine but in the Chinese Sea.
You are not sane.
Either that, or it’s your job.I mean, there is some nuance to be considered here. The USA has made it abundantly clear that they plan for a major conflict in the South China Sea for over a decade now.
When they finally left Afghanistan, the plan wasn’t to bring the troops home and never go on another campaign again. It was about shifting priorities. That’s what we’re seeing now.
I don’t mean to downplay the aggressive aspects of this military exercise, I’m just saying there are multiple shades of gray here and that we lose some of the power to explain what’s happening if we amp up the contrast too much.
Yayyy, ableism!
You don’t invade something that’s already yours.
CCP never had a claim on Taiwan
I don’t know about that, but I think the whole framework of “historical legitimacy” is flawed. Regardless of history, it’s ultimately the people who get to decide what government is legitimate for them.
If a majority of the Taiwanese wanted to be ruled by CCP then it would already have happened
deleted by creator
Taiwan was never a separate country from the rest of China. It’s only being separated because America wants it separated. A divided China is a weaker China.
CCP didn’t take it when the current Taiwan gov moved there, they only took the mainland.
That’s literally the definition of how countries split in two
The countries have not split into two. It’s still one country.
Both ROC and PROC agree on this.
Only America wants to break them apart because they can make Taiwan a vassal state similar to how they broke Korea apart and make South Korea a vassal state of the American empire.
A divided China is a weaker China
This honestly feels like mental illness. Imagine rapist screaming at the victim “I can’t get stronger unless we unite” while threatening to kill her.
Dude, get over it, Taiwan has moved on, they have their separate lives and don’t want anything to do with China, just like Ukraine (who was part of Soviet union) does not want Russia and will likely result in a long and costly war. I too would go guerilla of someone tried to invade my country.
False equivalence.
It’s like China starting a war between California and the rest of America and supplying California with weapons then saying California is a separate country.
And since China helped California in the war, China established their military base in California to help defend California.
Reading this would have Americans shaking and crying but this is exactly what America did.
Estonia in this case is comparable to Taiwan. I.e. a small country trying to increase their capabilities to defend against tyrant Russia.
Oh, so you support North Korea’s military expenditure to protect itself from the USA? Should Cuba buy $11bn in military armament to defend itself from tyrant USA? You also rightfully support Hamas in its defense against Israel?
Wasn’t aware that the US was trying to annex North Korea and Cuba lmao
The USA has carried out a massive military deployment next to Venezuela, which has Caribbean waters, and has started murdering civilians and even attacks on mainland Venezuela. Do you really think Cuba or North Korea have fewer reasons to be afraid of USA invasion than Taiwan does of China, the latter not having participated in armed conflict in over 3 decades? The USA is actively carrying out military exercises in the Korean Peninsula.
Are you trying to portray Trump foreign policy as the norm for the US while also comparing it to Russia/China’s consistent imperialism over decades?
What an absolutely uneducated take. China hasn’t taken military action since more than 3 decades ago, whereas the USA in the 21st century alone has warred in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Syria and many more. Please tell me one single event of “Chinese imperialism” in the last 30 years that remotely compares to the USA invasion of Iraq.
I mean I more or less support any country to develop military power to defend themselves, from the USA or any others. It’s the application of military power to practice realpolitik that I don’t support.
Laughably incomparable.
Yeah, Estonia are ‘The Good White Guys™’ whereas China are ‘Le Evil Asiatic Empire’
Are you mentally ill or something? That was a defensive exercise and this has nothing to do with race.
No. They’re just a tankie. Probably paid by the CCP for propaganda or trying to increase their social credit score.
Oh god, not the 2015 social credit score propaganda… I expected better from Lemmy tbh, I hoped that people competent enough to understand the good parts of the Fediverse would be able to discern from the most obvious bullshit propaganda in the world. You’re just showing you haven’t ONCE talked with a Chinese person from China about the topic…
I AM a tankie btw, in that I support Actually Existing Socialist states in their struggle against western imperialism, I just don’t get paid for it. You should contact the Chinese authorities, I’d love to get paid for this!
Are you mentally ill or something?
No need to go to ableism. I’m aware you don’t consciously think that Chinese people are bad, but in your worldview, any military exercise or defense expenditure done by non-west-aligned nations is intrinsically evil. This is rooted, again subconsciously, on white supremacism (or its less explicit brands: eurocentrism and american exceptionalism).
So, China’s military exercise done, according to the article, in response to an $11bn purchase of weapons to the USA by Taiwan, is not defensive in nature?
That is completely untrue. Even Russia conducts its exercises mostly professionally and I don’t object.
If you think what China is doing is a defensive exercise, you are so biased that you are unable to see reality. They are encircling sovereign territory and practicing for a land invasion and blockade to subjugate the Taiwanese people and steal their land. I would like to hear your explanation for how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Navy_landing_barges are defensive in nature.
The weapons that Taiwan has purchased is a direct response to Chinese imperialism, aggression, and threats. Taiwan is not threatening Chinese people, but the opposite is not true.
But… are you though?
Not diagnosed
WHATABOUT THIS!! ---->>> WHATABOUT THAT!! <---- WHATABOUT THERE!! ^ NOW WHATABOUT THESE!
Ever seen a headless chicken fighting for his life?
Fuck the CCP and PLA. Free West Taiwan.
Lets say tomorrow, the US manages to occupy the entirety of mainland China, and schedules elections for next week. Who do you think the people of mainland China elect? A business-friendly lib who promises American companies will invest in resource extraction and privatization or reelect the guys who brought a billion people from poverty and regular famine to first world living standards within living memory?
Elected by who? You’re definitely going to see very different opinions by different ethnicities
Do you think they’d prefer getting fucked by capitalism like the former SSRs were in the 90s, or autonomy within China, like they have now?
Oppressed minorities tend to avoid authoritarian states
Authoritarian how? In that capitalists aren’t free to control the government?
I’d agree China’s lack of free speech makes them more authoritarian, if I hadn’t watched cops kick the shit out of and/or arrest people protesting against genocide in the US and europe for the last 2 years.
Hong Kong oppression against dissidents…
Former SSRs are doing much better now than when they were vassal states and resource producers for Moscow.
Have you been to any of those states and seen the rotting public infrastructure? Talked to anyone over 50?
Am in the former Kazakhstan SSR rn.
I live in one and the infrastructure is great. Could use better train service, but it’s modern and nice.
Are there rusted tracks from a tram system that was defunded in 1992?
Like even here its faster than it was, with modern tram buses, but you can see the damage the 90s did everywhere
and regular famine
Regular as in recurring.
That was a regular occurrence before, it hasn’t since.
But since the 1950s what other country has had a famine on the same scale? The USSR?
It was directly due to CCP mismanagement. It’s really not fair to credit them with ending famine when they caused the most deadly famine on earth.
It was due to wide-spread drought, like all the previous famines. The CPC’s policies failed to mitigate the effects, but the Qing and KMT’s policies failed to do so too.
After the famine, policy was corrected and there have been none since.
Capitalist India right next door, which had much greater technological development when the cpc took control of China, still has children dying of malnutrition-related diseases during bad years.
What? Lol. This is complete nonsense
another distraction from chinas intenral problems, by threatening taiwan again.
It isn’t a distraction, it’s live exercises to test and refine their capabilities.
What internal problems?
Genuine question, I am woefully unaware of most things china.
From friends that are thinking or have recently emigrated, stagnant economy and no future prospects for young people, masters degree holders lining up hoping for tobacco packing jobs in Henan.
Talked to a couple Zoomer guys on XHS from Guizhou and they said theyre considering joining the army cause there’s not much other work for them.
Isn’t that a problem everywhere at the moment?
Is it?
In the developed world, yeah. Demographics are wonky because of the large population of boomers that are living longer and staying in the workforce longer thanks to modern medicine. This is the case of most countries that participated in WWII, as I understand it.
I know that depending on the degree it can sometimes be hard to find a job that aligns with that specific field, especially now that America has withdrawn a significant portion of the world’s general research funding. But here, they’re working for the tobacco plant because it’s paying near double the other starting jobs for university students. I’m not sure you can ever solve this problem when it’s impossible to know the future demand for a specific knowledge field. America, China, and most of Europe sit comfortably at just under 5% unemployment which is basically as low as most market economies can get.
Sounds grim, thanks.
I guess I just see shit like them building a factory in a week and assume they are doing well but it’s probably propaganda.
They are doing impressive projects, not gonna lie, but the whole “class struggle” spiel has been over for some time now
LGBTQ rights in China are… complicated. LGBTQ rights aren’t spelled out, leaving things ambiguous - but no same sex marriage, no pride orgs shut down, lots of workplace aggression and discrimination with no protections at all… homosexuality is decriminalized but there’s no trans rights. so yeah, that could be better.
social credit scores are downright orwellian - they experimented with these in some cities in the 2010-2020 decade but t hen nationalized all the private solutions they tried… not sure even they know if they want to continue but - hypothetically - anyone can report you for… anything that disturbs the peace or what the ccp thinks is the ideal order - your social credit score gets dinged, then you could have trouble with all kinds of stuff - make it harder receive loans, obtain a visa for travel, etc.
compared to us credit scores, it’s probably not that big of a deal (we let three companies decided who gets loans for houses, based on… voodoo afaik. the way credit scores are compiled is pretty opaque).
Now Taiwan knows where to install the sea mines.
The replies to this post are a goldmine for tankie accounts to block
Wanted to comment the same. Love it, keep the whining tankies coming, I’m getting an accurate blocklist with zero effort
Christ. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel with this thread.
Controversial opinion: war is bad 🫢
Sounds like Taiwan should sign a contract building Sea babies and Sub Baby for Ukraine, just make sure to build a few thousand extra for “future supplies”.
Another three days special operation is underway.
Ok, can we just start WWIII an end civilisation before i have to return to work on the 6th of January? Please!?
Sorry, bud, you’re just gonna have to work through the slow rolling apocalypse. Speaking of, we’re going to need you to pull a few doubles, we had to lay off a few people to raise profits.
OTOH if civilization falls, the things you’ll have to do the 6th will be like nothing you have ever experienced. Careful what you wish for.
“If I did it, here’s how I would do it”
By
OJ Simpsonthe CCPHere’s an interesting evaluation of the likelihood of China invading Taiwan.
https://www.stimson.org/2025/rethinking-the-threat-why-china-is-unlikely-to-invade-taiwan/
I feel like their analysis is, “it would be costly and risky so they probably won’t do it,” which could be said for literally any war ever. I’m not sure I find it a particularly compelling argument.
yeah and what happens when at the last moment they decide this isn’t a “drill?” oops! looks like all Taiwans allies were too busy doin fuck all, and now it’s under president poohs control
Naval blockades don’t really work when your adversary has a limitless supply of antiship missiles
Taiwan’s military is surprisingly ramshackle, unless you mean the US? I’m not sure they can reliably be considered an adversary of China anymore. Xi could buy a few million of Trump’s crypto and all would be forgiven.
Doesn’t Taiwan have well over a thousand modern ASMs in inventory, and manufacturing hundreds more annually? How would mainland China enforce an encirclement by sea for any length of time with that sort of threat?
I hope they don’t engage in a war. China can bomb all Taiwan and destroy everything and lose on the process a lot of people and resources. If China is not a fool, and I don’t think it is, the best path is to wait (and maybe push) for a second civil war in the US to have the upper hand in a possible reunification talk. And this drills would be just showing muscle before sitting to talk with Taiwan.
AFAIK they don’t have that many of the newer ASMs, and anyway a thousand isn’t really that many, especially given that Taiwan’s missiles are on the smaller end of the spectrum - we’re not talking KH-22 sizes here.
It doesn’t take too many ASMs to sink some really important assets. Size isn’t really important, if one of the mainland’s carriers is within a couple hundred KMS of Taiwan, then it’s in the kill zone. Supersonic maneuvering missiles that work in gps-denied environments and can be sea, air and land launched are just the sort of weapon that works great in an asymmetric conflict and to break naval blockades. The blocader has to defend against every single inbound, the adversary only needs to get one missile through the defenses
While this is all true, the aggressor being the largest green-water navy in the world skews the equation, plus the naval angle is of course only one of multiple avenues of attack. We can’t be complacent about Taiwan’s ability to defend itself, no more than we could say for example that Finland could hold off Russia alone.
Taiwan doesn’t need to sink every PLAN ship, they just need to make the political cost of enforcing a blockade higher than the CPC can afford.
Ukraine has area-denied Russia’s most important warm water port and most of the black sea from use by the Russian surface fleet with a small handful of homebrew ASMs and some jetskis painted black with a barrel of RDX strapped to them. And Finland did hold off the red army alone once already.
Ukraine is still being actively devastated after three years by a country far inferior to China - I’m sure the Taiwanese would prefer to avoid that fate. Finland’s “victory” came at the cost of collaoration with the Nazis, which maybe was the right choice at the time, but not great in hindsight to say the least. It’s also hard to quantify the political cost when discussing a one-party state - it’s not like the CCP will lose the next election. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying I’d prefer to support Taiwan to such a great extent that we don’t have to cross our fingers.
Ah yes, the infamous ramshackle F35
10 cent army out in force
10 cent army? I want to see Taiwan armed to the teeth. They can’t solo the CCP in their current state.
No one is soloing anyone, including China and Russia
That’s really the crux of the issue. If China finally move against Taiwan, who will help? Japan seems the most reliable ally at the moment, and perhaps Australia. The US are untrustworthy.
Sinc solo was mentioned lol.
Can you imagine China turning to a wartime economy?
China will make Japan and Taiwan look like the us made Baghdad FROM THEIR SHORES.
This whole conversation is ridiculous. China doesn’t move on Taiwan because of economic implications, not because of any threat from any outside actor. The US is on the other side of the world, Venezuela is about as big a pill as they can swallow. We failed in Korea, we failed in Vietnam. What on earth makes anyone think we can do anything in chinas civil war?
China is THE manufacturing and logistics powerhouse on this planet. That’s what wins wars and no one is even close.
XI did give ivanka trademark registrations.
Or promise to drop the “cosplaying in red” part of their “communism”.
Well the supply isn’t limitless, so
Well neither is the PLANs supply of artificial reefs
No, but they can build faster than Taiwan. And I’m sure they have some CIWS that will reduce the number of missiles that hit, so it’s a pure numbers game.
What’s some cool stuff to visit in China that isn’t close to (or is upwind of) military installations or industrial centers? Asking for several thousand friends.
