Rights advocates in the United States are urging President Joe Biden to end his administration’s “complicity” in Israeli rights abuses after key members of Israel’s government backed the idea of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza.
Far-right Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich said this week that Israel should “encourage emigration” from the coastal enclave, home to an estimated 2.3 million Palestinians.
“If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not two million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after [the war ends] will be totally different,” Smotrich said on Sunday, calling for the “voluntary migration” of Palestinians.
A day later, Ben-Gvir, who oversees national security, made a similar appeal, saying it was “a correct, just, moral and humane solution”, Israeli media outlets reported.
New fears? New to him? Not New to anyone paying attention.
For literal decades Biden has been telling Israel he’ll support them no matter what, but they need to worry about the optics of their actions…
He’s 100% ok with what’s happening, he just wishes they were quieter while doing it.
He’s not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.
So Biden sees no reason to stop supporting Israel, in a moderates mind it literally doesn’t matter because the Republicans would be even shittier. Which by some twisted logic means Biden can be just as bad and it’s not a negative.
It’s a great example of why “not a Republican” can’t be the bare minimum for the dem candidate.
‘dissolve your democracy’ or ‘support ethnic cleansing’
Not a great set of choices at the ballots for Americans this election.
I mean … has America ever halted it’s eugenics program?
Founded upon genocides by slaveholders.
Or here’s a novel idea: the candidate who doesn’t want to dissolve democracy could dramatically increase his chances of winning by NOT enabling genocide including ethnic cleansing and domicide.
I’d set the likelihood of THAT ever happening at zero a month or two ago, but now it seems he’s slowly realizing that enough people actually care more about human rights than empty platitudes and slavish devotion to what’s become an apartheid state that he has to change course.
I’d say there’s now a 10-20% chance he’s going to at least PRETEND to agree that Palestinian lives matter between now and November.
As a someone on the left, few things are as persuasive and soothing as wrung hands.
I’m gonna have to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by that.
Biden is likely to go out and wring his hands about the difficult situation for everyone involved in the conflict. He’ll show it is something he thinks about, then it will (likely) decrease the pressure on him.
Because he wrung his hands on a stage and/or into a microphone.
My theory is that people think that counts as being heard.
Edit: my apologies if my earlier brevity sounded like a dismissal of your point. I was attempting to agree and, well… didn’t provide enough context.
Thank you for the question.
I don’t know why he bothers, i have never had a choice in an election in the first place. I can’t imagine someone being on the fence at this point unless they are cloaking for an argument.
Yeah, you’re probably spot on 😮💨
I got 2 choices comes November. And nothing significant is going to change our voting system between now and then.
FUCK do these moralists propose I do?! After 01/06, I am more than a little wary.
“I don’t like what Biden is doing!”
“Well fuck me, I hate it. Still want a functioning democracy come January 2025?”
Because I’m not liking having an AR-15 leaning on my desk, and a 12-gauge on my nightstand, for when the local Brown Shirts decide I’m “vermin” and they need to raid my house “for my own good”. Anyone think that’s “radical” or “paranoid”? Got steep yourself in some WWII history lessons.
And BTW, the Brown Shirts will be local, on your street, if Trump wins. It won’t be, “Your machine gun gonna fight the military?!” No. All politics are local. Wait and see.
“Mr. Shalafi, look, we’re your neighbors, and we know you love you some guns! But times have changed. We just need to collect those up for your own protection. You can have them back once things calm down, pinky swear.”
Fuck me. I just got a buncha guns because I like shooting and gunsmithing old crappy stuff. Now that hobby is turning serious. And I fucking loathe that change.
I’m 53 soon, and I cannot begin to express how fucking angry I am to have typed those last sentences.
I know, I know, I was complacent, didn’t see it coming. But fuck me, I voted these past decades. And here we are.
I am a peaceful man, but I am not harmless. I’d suggest you gun-grabber libs think on that a moment. Because the other side already has thought on it.
Because I’m not liking having an AR-15 leaning on my desk, and a 12-gauge on my nightstand, for when the local Brown Shirts decide I’m “vermin” and they need to raid my house “for my own good”. Anyone think that’s “radical” or “paranoid”? Got steep yourself in some WWII history lessons.
This is indeed both radical and paranoid.
The care bear Dems will hold hands and care the situation away.
Fighting for anything is only just starting to be considered. But it’s so very late, now.
Hope we never get to what you describe. We need the laws and LEO to do what’s right and keep things from sliding. Very hard to know that may not happen and I deeply wish Biden held himself to one term.
He has a considerable polling and enthusiasm gap now - and this isn’t the time for that to be true.
Let me help, it’s more nuanced than that
It’s “dissolve our democracy and support ethnic cleansing at home and abroad” or “support ethnic cleansing abroad only”
Who is the more accelerationist candidate? The one who openly calls himself a dictator (‘on day one only, teehehehe’) or the status-quo octogenarian who continues the moral bankruptcy and refuses to stop lethal support or even public condemnation towards Israel even slightly? And I’m supposed to be thankful that Biden-Harris check the “not Trump lol” box and ignore the rest? Remember the hemming and hawing about Ukraine getting last gen/expiring tech? And we’re just GIVING Israel hardware from active US inventory???
I’d LOVE a viable third party or AVP/STV/etc voting, but electoral reform is a threat to DNC & RNC hegemony, so that never happening without a constitutional convention. So tell me, do you really have a choice at the ballot? Federal and primary races are littered with corporate and party money, there is no organic change coming from DC anymore.
You vote Republican to sink into the muck. You vote Democrat to stand there to let the tide take you. But you don’t have a choice other than to stall and hope that something changes.
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He’s not going to hold Israel accountable, because he knows the only other person Americans can vote for is trump.
The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls.
Turns out that the electorate has a ridiculously short memory.
Turns out that the “I’m not the other guy” tactic is much less effective for an incumbent than a challenger.
Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters, maybe even more, is an extremely bad idea even if your opponent is objectively many times worse than you.
So yeah, as much as he hates it, he’s gonna have to do something different, or at least pretend to, and he knows it.
The reason he’s starting to pretend to listen is that he’s losing in the polls
He’s been polling bad this whole time…
And just illegally went around Congress to “sell” weapons to Israel in exchange for a small slice of the billions we’ve given them this year.
I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic
But it’s just not what’s actually happening…
He’s been polling bad this whole time…
It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though.
I wish what you were saying was true, because its optimistic
I’d say that giving it a 10-20% likelihood of happening in spite of him almost certainly being forced to do it or lose is rather pessimistic tbh…
But it’s just not what’s actually happening
I’m not saying it’s happening. I’m saying that the likelihood of it happening in the future has increased from nonexistent to very small, theoretically.
It’s gone from bad to worse in the last couple of months, though
Factually incorrect…
https://www.270towin.com/2024-presidential-election-polls/national
They’ve been 2-3% away from each other all year.
Even before this Israel shit, Biden doesn’t have a good chance.
That doesn’t mean I agree with anything else you’re saying, I’m just not going to provide a source that disproves every single thing you just said, because it’s not a good use of time so I’m trying to focus on just one thing.
Even before this Israel shit, Biden doesn’t have a good chance.
The election year just started, and these numbers are going to change dramatically
Most shockingly, it turns out that continuing to ignore the rightful moral outrage of as many as half of your potential voters
Strong disagree on this language.
Anyone in the 10% that thinks hostages or sexual assault is a lie, or that Jews overplay the fucking Holocaust, are not “rightful” and their concerns do not come from empathy, because they lack empathy as a concept.
Is it right to be morally outraged by an ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide? Yes or no?
The indisputable facts that Hamas has committed heinous terrorism and that the holocaust happened and was unimaginably awful doesn’t excuse the crimes against humanity committed by the Israeli government, so please pack your fucking whataboutism away.
That’s not whataboutism. Whataboutism is changing the subject to derail the conversation. This is simply addressing a different point of view in the same discussion.
No. Mentioning the opinions of uninvolved people IS changing the subject of whether or not genocide is bad and should be stopped.
A comparable if much lower stakes example would be if we were discussing whether or not it’s ok to say that Wings were better than The Beatles and then some rando chimes in to inform us that 10% of techno fans think that the world doesn’t need guitars.
Fun had, let’s return to the actual: 10% of the respondents of a poll saying ANYTHING doesn’t make genocide more or less acceptable and bringing it up in spite of that is a whataboutism, a distraction and a very crass way to try to derail the conversation.
It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality, and that the number of people who believe that is enough to change Dem support from strong majority agreement with the President to disagreement.
It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”
War does indeed suck and you’re allowed to not like it and even use your irresponsibly inflammatory language, but it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.
It’s not whataboutism to demonstrate that an election-significant number of Democrats believe Hamas bullshit over reality
Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be a whataboutism.
What Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.
It’s also not whataboutism to point out that nearly a third of people polled have generally no opinion on such basic things as “did the Holocaust happen” or “was the Hamas terror attack a big deal” or “does Hamas target civilians.”
Yes it is. That is by definition whataboutism. Maybe you need to look up what whataboutism is. While you’re at it, look up “bad faith arguments” and several logical fallacies.
War does indeed suck
And war crimes perpetrated against a mostly defenseless civilization population of over 50% children are much worse.
you’re allowed to not like it
Gee, thanks! So generous of you!
irresponsiblyaccurate inflammatory languageFixed that for you
it’s absurd to suggest these comments are whataboutism.
Again, just Google it. You can also use a better search engine, but PLEASE look up the word you keep pretending you know the meaning of.
Again, while I don’t necessarily otherwise disagree with you, you are a little confused on whataboutism.
Nope, I’m not. Those comments mention things that have absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand but the one bringing them up tries to derail the discussion by insisting that they’re not only relevant but in fact crucial to the matter at hand.
That’s textbook whataboutism.
Even if the pro-IDF propaganda piece you linked to had successfully demonstrated that, yes it would still be whataboutism since what Americans believe has no bearing on whether the Israeli government should be allowed to systematically slaughter and demolish their way through Palestinians, including children, at a rate completely unheard of anywhere in the world in recent years.
You do understand that you are literally expressing a thing that some Americans believe, yes? Like, you get that your position is an opinion, right?
Yes, it is indeed an opinion that committing atrocities is a bad thing to do. Well done on finally getting something right.
It’s a VERY popular opinion though, one shared by so many people that the world has decided that people are not allowed to do that bad thing.
That the Israeli Apartheid regime is committing genocide, ethnic cleansing and domicide isn’t an opinion, though. It’s an objective fact by all definitions of all the words.
A fact not changed by whether or not some misguided Americans think or pretend to think that the atrocities of Hamas are justified or that the holocaust didn’t happen.
Biden works for the war machine
No. The best information is that they’ve been putting a ton of pressure on Netanyahu to back the fuck off, but it hasn’t done any good because he’s a legitimate asshole and always has been. (Remember, this is the same guy who deliberately embarrassed Obama by accepting a GOP invitation to address Congress without consulting the White House or making an official state visit to the president. He’s the scum of the earth and always has been. There’s zero question that he’s hoping for a Trump win.)
They don’t want to go public with demanding restraint or a cease fire because they are afraid it will widen the war by encouraging Iran and its other proxies such as the Houthis and Hezbollah which could further hinder freight traffic through the Red Sea, thus bumping global inflation back up and giving Trump a campaign gift. I think at this point it’s a lost cause and they need to cut their losses and tell Israel to knock it the fuck off, but I expect they will continue to drag their feet and work on back channels.
We also know that every time Iran has been met with real force rather than empty threats, they have backed off. Ultimately it would still be a big gamble to openly threaten them, but it’s something to think about, especially if you don’t fancy another Trump presidency/dictatorship.
Most of what we see on Lemmy is pure amateur hour speculation that has only a very tangential relationship with what’s actually happening.
I agree with this but also I’m not sure if this isn’t already a proxy war with iran-russia, and it also seems to benefit china too.
And even if netanyahu wasn’t an arse, he’s totally reliant on some awful people to stay in power, and out of prison, for however long he can manage both.
Pushing back publically against his actions now is equivalent to demanding regime change in Israel and while I think it would be a good thing I can see why geopolitically it’s difficult for the US to do.
The best information is that they’ve been putting a ton of pressure on Netanyahu to back the fuck off
Lol what pressure? Him and Blinken only barely proclaimed talking about reducing civilian casualties. Meanwhile, several of Biden’s officials have resigned in protest of his policy.
Sending weapons immediately and bypassing congress twice is anything but pressure.
They don’t want to go public with demanding restraint or a cease fire because they are afraid it will widen the war by encouraging Iran and its other proxies such as the Houthis and Hezbollah which could further hinder freight traffic through the Red Sea,
Why would it? Houthis would easily stop if the USA negotiates a ceasefire, especially after they removed their terrorist label. Iran has no reason to get directly involved because they don’t want to directly face the US or Israel. Everyone else surrounding Israel doesn’t care because they’re all shill nations anyway. About the only unsatisfied party might be Hamas, but they entered this thing knowing it would be their final stand, so it would technically be an improvement from guaranteed death.
Israel is a strategic defense partner and basically a military outpost for the US. The fact that the USA is complacent in letting Israel do whatever is not surprising whatsoever because they’ve already pulled this exact scenario like hundreds of times before. The only difference is the scale and the optics. Biden only cares slightly more because it’s election season, so he can’t just blindly deny everything and expect people to believe him.
Calm down, everyone! Biden is already acting. He’s sending weapons to Israel as fast as he can.
But this is fine because Trump would send them even faster and make the children even more dead. All hail the glorious two party system.
The Abraham Accords is often cited as an escalation towards the situation we are now in that it tried to politically isolate Hamas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords
Maybe the orange man wouldn’t make a difference on the arms front, but he is really good at planting seeds for conflict.
This is honestly what defeating an insurrection should feel like. Comparing obvious differences in administration and policy. Yep, i only see escalation and incitement on the alternative side of the coin. ““Set up nukes outside of Iran?”” yeah we dodged a huge bullet.
Biden has the policy of expanding the shameful Abraham Accords
Were you asleep from 2015 to 2020? He’d definitely be at least as bad on this issue, and vastly worse on every other one.
Yeah I know. Perhaps you missed my point
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He did say, loud and proud, that he’s zionist…
Sauce for the lazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jov9jxRecFc
Nothing out of the ordinary here. Just the head police officer of Israel suggesting actual ethnic cleansing in a reasonable tone.
Nope definitely not an evil government.
The only pressure Biden feels is how to feign any concern about anything Israel is doing.
Bullshit. Leaving aside any potential humanitarian concerns, this whole thing is a massive headache for the Biden Administration.
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Are we sure we want him to act?
Might send more bombs.
I think what needs to happen is get Trump to say he’ll support Israel. Then
anti-TrumpBiden will have to say he doesn’t support Israel.Two days later it will be chalked up to the ramblings of a senile old man and Israel will get the latest in phosphorus technology.
Trump has already said many times his position. He tried to move things even further to supporting Israel. Biden isn’t the anti-Trump, but he’s what we’ve got. Hopefully he’ll do what’s right.
Spoiler: he won’t.
Almost like we need to stop hedging our bets on a single office.
What other office can do something about Israel?
Nobody. That’s the tragedy. As long as AIPAC throws lobbying dollars around and hardline US Jews and Christians refuse any stance except 100% support, America’s UNSC veto (or threat therein-of) ensures Israel has political cover.
Just like a long line of awful US ‘strategic allies’ like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Pinochet, Saddam, etc…
The presidency was never meant to be as powerful as it has become.
I wonder what it would take for Biden to act. The actual bombing and killing isn’t enough. Are these statements by Israeli leadership what it will take? I don’t really understand what is behind Biden’s support at this point.
Been wondering the same. Traditionally the US has supported Israel, no matter what. But fuck me. Biden has thrown all has cards on the table in support of genocide, and I still have to vote for him. What a clusterfuck.
Meanwhile, Ukraine is fighting our arch enemy and we’re bickering about whether to send them more arms. Here’s our chance to destroy Russia, once and for all, with not a soldier lost, not even a mildly damaged M4 rifle, and gather all the intelligence in the world on modern combat. Finally. And the GOP won’t do it. Reagan is spinning in his grave.
That when conspiracy theory come to place. When Biden spoke about victims of hamas attack next day, he was and still emphatic. Yet never spoke about the civilians or kids who died in Gaza. He doesn’t sees them.
There are a few options to his actions and looking at all of them they don’t make sense. He is not evangelical working towards the kingdom of Isreal to happen. He doesn’t need money. He doesn’t have relatives living there. Yet he been knowing to be a zainoist since he was a senator.
My conspiracy is that he is blackmailed by Isreal especially when he visited Isreal first time.
Here is a quote about his memory from a few weeks back.
over 50 years ago, as a young senator, I visited Israel for the first time, as a newly elected senator.
“And I had a long, long trip — or meeting with Golda Meir in her office just before the Yom Kippur War. And I guess she could see the consternation on my face as she described what was being faced — they were facing.”
To me it is very clear how compromised the us government by Zionist. Senator, presidents, and most of the rich and important companies which ultimately own the media. If it wasn’t for social media we wouldn’t know much about the suffering that children is going through nor their cries.
I don’t see how that quote supports your point at all
Biden talked to the Israeli PM 50 years ago about how Israel was facing multiple countries that wanted Israel destroyed, shortly before multiple countries attempted to destroy Israel
And this is proof that Zionists have corrupted the US Government?
Probably? AIPAC money drying up.
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While it’s nice to hear that Biden is ‘under pressure’ about this, I wish it took something less than obvious genocide and a near-global consensus that these are crimes against humanity for any sort of media to register it.
I honestly don’t understand why Biden is so hawkish on this; it’s not like giving Israel carte blanche will get him support from Republicans, and doing it really does appear to divide the left enough to hurt him politically.
Biden is hawkish on Israel because he remembers a version of Israel that doesn’t exist anymore. The stalwart of the Middle East is a shell of itself and it doesn’t want the rest of the world finding out. I know his age is a meme at this point but it’s worth pointing out here
It also explains why he treats the GOP the way he does, he’s remembering a much older Senate.
To be fair, he has had a surprising amount of success dealing with the GOP over the last few years.
I wonder what it’s like living in a functioning democracy.
It ain’t exactly bliss but it ain’t this either
Given what transpires about the US on the international news scene, I’m not sure putting that to a democratic vote would yield the result you expect, sadly.
In this case I don’t think it would hurt to have a popular vote decide (the next president)
well color me the shade of anal bleach
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