https://socially.drinkingatmy.computer/objects/4df5b6b4-102f-4854-8721-480d56380e0c
I use debian btw 🙈
I like debians dad bud 😻
😭😭😭 debian is a treasure and we will all be worse off if you succeed in bullying it
But I want my computer for dicking around in the garage, mowing the lawn. and getting a fresh beer. Involuntary dad noises are the prelude for all that. This is the best ad copy for a distro I’ve ever heard. Next you’re gonna tell me it’s predictable and stable and stoically gets things done.
No snaps, no PPK, Stable AF, Steam just works, Even on a Hybrid video card laptop.
It’s more dependable than a hell of a lot of dads.
You’re comparing it to Ununtu, I had shits more dependable that Ubuntu
hah, tell that to a dell g15!
(it has a hardware bug(i think) that makes it freeze all the time when in hybrid video card mode in linux)
interesting. my 9000 series all run fine on https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA Optimus
as always with hardware though, ymmv
I’ve always loved debian. There’s a reason it’s a favorite on servers, and so many distros are built on it. Stable, reliable, gets the job done really well. As long as the job doesn’t require the newest packages.
I’ve been using Debian for so many years (damn, I feel so old).
Since 2002 here. Now get off my lawn.
I switched to Debian when version 1.1 was released in 1996 and it’s been Debian since then for me, but you youngsters may stay on my lawn as long as you just don’t litter.
i heard about debian in 02! but i was a sophmore more worried about zsnes on windows ME and trying to grow a mustache.
i rent a lawn
i rent a lawn
Me too (normal where I live, very few people own property in the city here).
I use fedora as a daily driver and debian for everything that just needs to do one thing for possibly decades to come with as little maintenance as possible.
Fedora KDE for my personal machines, Debian for my servers
Hello fellow KDE enjoyer.
get this, what if your daily driver needed as little maintenance as possible?
Sometimes, you do need some newer packages (e.g. for gaming), and Debian is … not very good at facilitating that, even if it’s usually possible, in theory, to install newer packages from Sid. Flatpaks or manually installing stuff through git etc. help, but that doesn’t work well for stuff like GPU drivers.
I game without problems on Debian Stable for years. Everyone keeps saying that and I didnt have a single problem because of “old packages”
You likely have old hardware and play old games. Which is fine on Debian.
Try playing day 1 releases of major titles on brand new hardware weeks after it releases.
It’s not fun.
Yes I rarely play day one releases, but I did with some titles, from the top of my head there was Tony Hawk Pro Skater remastered, Lies of P, Baldurs Gate 3 and Path of Excile 2.
It worked pretty good, what exact package is it that you are looking for that makes gaming on Debian impossible in regards to something like PopOs or Ubuntu, I mean you do realize that they are Debian systems right? Of course if I get a RTX 5090 on day one, I will run into issues, but I am using AMD Hardware, I don’t really have any problems. But I would argue, that running on day one hardware with a fresh 9000 Dollar RTX 6090, you are not an average user nor are you an average gamer.
What’s your hardware? I have an NVIDIA GeForce 5090, and I got the impression that debian wouldn’t be the best choice from my searches. I went with pop os instead, and while Wayland and driver support works great (Safe for some vendor specific issues like LCD and sensors not working), cosmic is honestly too much of a hassle to use right now.
It depends on the games you play and how long you wait after a game’s release. Maybe if your GPU is from NVIDIA, AMD/Radeon or Intel. I use Ubuntu LTS on my main PC and every once in a while, there is a game that just doesn’t work until I install newer drivers and kernels (the newer packages get automatically disabled when you do a major version update, so I can test this about every 2 years). I have no reason to believe that this would be any different on Debian stable.
Ubuntu is shit, I’d recommend to switch to Debian Stable. You will have less problems.
I do have it installed, even did some gaming with it. It’s not better at gaming. I’ve been considering to switch because I do agree that Canonical definitely sucks more than the Debian project - it’s just that none of the issues that Canonical has make Debian a better gaming distro.
Well if you have less problems on the side its a better overall distro.
My set of requirements for a daily driver is very different. From experience, I’ll end up with a frankendebian that requires much more manual intervention and has a high risk of breaking during updates.
fair point. I fucked my install trying to make my overheating issues go away, but after going onto nobara, pika os I think the issues are here to stay. I’m going to try to stop overtinkering to stop getting frankendebian
i still don’t know what to do with my frankendevuan 😭
I would use Debian more if I didn’t have to remember whether to use
aptoryumevery time I ssh’d into a random server on my network.I think this is why some people use Neofetch (and its contemporaries).
It helps give a quick rundown of server specs, OS, etc to help remind you of the command mindset you need to be operating in when you connect to a new machine remotely - just quickly run your info tool of choice.
Yeah, or I could put something in the prompt, I’ve considered writing an alias or function so instead of
yumoraptI could just runinstalland let the system run what it must.It’s not really a big concern, though. I don’t run that many systems and I reimage them with different distros often enough that it hasn’t been worth addressing for me.
Thank you for the suggestion though!
As a dad who makes said noises, and a linux devotee, I approve.
Fellow dad who makes said noises here. Debian is my primary OS, and it’s just the way I like it.
He only gets off the couch every other year, too.
Debian is so boring (I love it from the bottom of my hearth and use it in all my servers and personal laptop)
Checks out.
I am a dad who makes that sound and also use debian.
As a dad who mostly runs Debian… Yeah I can’t deny it.
Still my top preferred for stability though!
For me debian sounds more like a steam roller. It just works. I installed debian on my first laptop 20 years ago and I know that if I just kept dist-upgrading it every day it would still be running today.
Debían DILFs interact
“It comes in three flavors: stale, useless and moldy”
edit: look at the downvotes. Sheesh, I was just going with the joke. FWIW I’m typing this on a Debian Stale machine. Same as my server.
I run Debian Stale for my Linux servers and love it, and your joke legit made me laugh… I’d say some people need to lighten up and learn to laugh at themselves a little 😅
Proudly running Debian Moldy (aka oldstable) on my servers. Fuck doing major version updates until I absolutely have to.
I lost a lot of respect for Debian due to the way they handled the whole issue with xscreensaver.
What about their handling didn’t you like?
It sounded like they were put in a pretty crappy position by the upstream adding a grumpy warning message. It’s also not like they were shipping a dangerous vulnerable old version or something, they backported security fixes into the stable version like with every other package, it just didn’t have new features and improvements and the dev was sick of being asked by users to support the old versions.
Patching out the message (which was effectively PUP malware) on testing and then porting that to stable and shifting the default to LightDM and LightLocker in future releases seems like a good solution. I probably would have dropped xscreensaver altogether in future versions (which is what the author suggested) for being malicious, but at the time there weren’t a lot of reliable alternatives and it was better for users to still have the option.
I think they should have either dropped the package or at the very least renamed it so people stop bothering jwz. Making the upstream developers deal with LTS versions they never intended to support is incredibly disrespectful.
Frankly Debian should have dropped it. If you create a situation where your users are annoying the fuck out of the author then your at fault.
Debian really did not handle the situation well. But it’s the same sort of attitude I see from shitty mod pack authors in modding communities.
They ship outdated versions and back port patches, then get pissy or don’t comply with the authors of the software they are shipping when the author rightfully gets upset at being bothered to support out dated shit.
It’s not the first nor will it be the last time a out dated distro causes this issue.
[…] Debian maintainer had inadvertently reduced the number of possible keys that could be generated by a given user from “bazillions” to a little over 32,000.
That’s really bad. It also seems like they patched OpenSSL without ever intending to upstream the changes.
The openssl change was communicated with upstream at the time, but no one from upstream pointed out the issue (not surprisingly, because the change seemed like an innocuous fix to an unassigned variable.)
We (Debian) fix bugs and send upstream the changes all the time, so this kind of thing happens. (Upstreams introduce these kind of bugs too; it’s the nature of software development.)
That’s a super long thread, is there a good summary somewhere for those of us who suffer from “bookmark this for later and then never revisit it” flavors of neurodivergence?
The gist of it is jwz, the maintainer of xscreensaver, received a ton of bug reports for bugs he fixed ages ago because Debian refused to update to a newer version citing “stability” as a reason. He added a warning dialog to his software to warn users that they are running an outdated version and to not report bugs to him. Debian maintainers patched it out because they are legally allowed to do so according to the license. I consider this is GNOME level of assholery. They decided on a shitty policy and then made it someone else’s problem.
Having just read the whole thread;
xscreensaver developer jwz added an allcaps/all bold notification to xscreensaver that says that the current xscreensaver version is really old. This notification could not be user canceled / okayed through. The author did this because he apparently received several emails about xscreensaver versions that were years out of date.
Debian stable’s policy is to make no updates unless they are security or bug related. This directly conflicted with jwz’s policy of only supporting the latest version of xscreensaver.
The Debian maintainers chose to remove the unskippable warning as the other options were harder to maintain / worse to use. This was specifically permissable in the xscreensaver license, but against the authors stated wishes to have xscreensaver removed entire if the warning could not be kept or the software could not be updated.
Of note, jwz escalated to yelling at the first reporter about this in his first email and swearing at another reporter in his second. The Debian stable team offered suggestions which would direct Debian users to the Debian development team for bug reports about the old versions of xscreensaver, but jwz’s hostile approach made that not happen at all.
If I install debian stable it’s because I want it to work, and to not be bothered about anything that doesn’t need to happen. That’s whole point of having Debian stable around. One of the points made in the discussion, which I strongly agree with, is that Linux software is managed in a repository, not individually. A windows program telling me out of date is obnoxious, but expected. A Linux program telling me it is out of date is a obnoxious and unexpected. (Fucking discord…)
The xscreensaver author shot himself in the foot with this one; presumably he wanted to avoid being harrassed over old versions of xscreensaver. What he ended up doing was telling everyone with an old version of xscreensaver that they need to update and then guaranteed they would harass thim about it by not giving the users an option to ignore and walk away from the message.
I consider jwz response entirely reasonable. The initial message immediately suggests going against his wishes and the rest of the thread is about whats good for Debian which is a project that jwz never wanted to be involved in but suddenly its his problem. If I where in his situation I would tell them to go fuck themselves as well. Its just incredibly disrespectful to the person who did the actual work.
The initial message immediately suggests going against his wishes and the rest of the thread is about whats good for Debian
Well yeah. This whole thread was started in the Debian bug tracker. Of course the focus is going to be on what’s good for Debian. The fact that jwz showed up immediately means they followed the Debian bug tracker, which begs the question, why would jwz subscribe to that if they didn’t want to be there? It also sets the tone for the whole discussion. Original reporter was whiny, but, like, it was directed at the Debian team, not jwz. jwz chose to insert themselves into the Debian bug tracker discussion, and also chose to be aggressive about it.
If I where in his situation I would tell them to go fuck themselves as well. Its just incredibly disrespectful to the person who did the actual work.
That’s fair, honestly. jwz owes the Debian team fuck all. But the other half of that is that the Debian team tried to work out a middle of the road solution and were met with immediate hostility.
You can’t work with someone who doesn’t want to work with you, so you do what’s best for your project and just move on.
Doesn’t seem like there where any great replacements for XFCE’s screensaver without potentially breaking things.
Debian isn’t the only stable distro, it and distros like it fill an inarguably societally important role at this point. Its reasonable to not push patches unrelated to bigfixes and security to a stable distro.
Its also reasonable to expect a developer to figure out a way to send canned responses to bug reports, and also require a version number with bug reports, throwing out any with missing or outdated versions. You know, because there are going to be people with outdated computers no matter what their distro does. Who knows, maybe I’m crazy.
Given the number of times I’ve had to triage issues caused by mispackaged Debian builds, I’m baffled that Debian maintainers are under the impression that their users generally know they’re supposed to report problems to the package maintainers rather than upstream. Maybe people who’ve been using Debian since the naughties do, but for the average user, Debian seems to be crafted specifically to generate duplicate upstream issue reports.
This is a challenge all distributions have which want to keep stability, which means shipping older versions (ideally with long term support) with only security updates for the lifetime of the distribution. It’s totally ok for upstream developers to not support any of those old versions too; they’re not being paid either.
It hasn’t committed suicide in me yet.
Software app just pinwheels though, but apt works.
