• sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Justice isnt served until Netenyahu and biden are being frog marched in chains and striped pajamas at the hague.

  • datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Peculiar how Kamala’s stance on Israel / Palestine shifted after she became the presidential candidate. It’s almost if there’s like a powerful group of people preventing politicians that are critical towards Israel from gaining influence. Probably just some crazy conspiracy theory bullshit though.

    • Match!!@pawb.social
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      3 days ago

      pretty sure a lot of people’s stances went one way or the other last october, do you have some comment from her between oct 2023 and aug 2024?

    • nomad
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      3 days ago

      Hopefully the second the US election is over. Afaik this Israel supporting genocidal bullshit is at least on part related to appeasing fundamentalist Christian voters of which there are a lot in the US.

    • nomad
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      3 days ago

      Hopefully the second the US election is over. Afaik this Israel supporting genocidal bullshit is at least on part related to appeasing fundamentalist Christian voters of which there are a lot in the US.

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        4 days ago

        “Stop punshing yourself” the trust fund kid said as it forced the arm into the face of their victim again, while the principal applauds the trust fund kid for his morals.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace.

        De-development via the Gaza Occupation

        The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.

        Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

        Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

        • Page 105

        Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.')

        • page 240

        In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

        • Page 402

        • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

        Blockade, including Aid

        Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

        After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

        The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

        Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid

        Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

        This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

        The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

        Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

        While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

        The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

        The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

        Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

        Peace Process and Solution

        Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

        Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

        During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.

      • formergijoe@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Kind of hard to vote out assholes if they stopped elections in 2006. It’s like if W never left power.

      • WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Yes, Hamas that was elected as a minority party, and took over in a coup before about half of the pre genocide population was even born. The people living in a permanent refugee camp should rise up and destroy the Iranian backed terrorist group. They will accomplish this with all of the supplies that are allowed to come in. I’m sure I just took the bait but I hear actual people make that same argument.

  • Tamo240@programming.dev
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    4 days ago

    We were told he was fortified in a tunnel network surrounded by bodyguards and hostages as human shields, like some terrorist mastermind.

    He is killed running alone from one bombed out house to another, by a soldier that didn’t even recognize him.

    Not saying he shouldn’t have been killed, but it really shows the false pretenses under which this ‘war’ is being carried out.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      Yeah it shows that Hamas is nearly defeated. They should obviously surrender and put an end to the bloodshed. But people in these radical movements tend to want to fight to the death, no matter how many bystanders they get killed with their bullshit.

      • Tamo240@programming.dev
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        4 days ago

        The first line of that article is

        Without citing a source, Channel 12 reports…

        Please try harder. There are people dying because of misinformation.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        The IDF said there were no hostages in the building with Sinwar. I see you going around everywhere spreading Israeli propaganda on Lemmy.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        4 days ago

        Ok, but was any of that know when soldiers opened fire, or was it all established after the event.

  • NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
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    4 days ago

    Now that “Justice has been served” I take it that US support for this war will be pulled and the Israelis will pack up and return back across the borders to go home?

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      V-E day happened about a month after Hitler killed himself.

      Fascists will tend to fight a little longer even after their strongman leader is dead. And Sinwar didn’t off himself, he died fighting so that could be used for propaganda purposes by Hamas.

      But after a few months of fighting in the ruins where their homes used to be and without the strongman leader they’ll begin to question what they’re even fighting for.

      Most fascist movements just fade away over time, but sometimes this is how fascism has to be defeated.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          2 days ago

          Hamas is a group that’s anti-democracy, lead by a strongman (or at least it was), whose political goals are centered around blood and soil, ethnic cleansing and genocide. They tick all of the fascist boxes.

      • Match!!@pawb.social
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        3 days ago

        yeah it probably would’ve helped to bring in hamas leaders alive and in custody. seems sorta like israel’s strategy is weirdly not about bringing a timely end to the fighting

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          2 days ago

          Sure in an ideal world Sinwar would be put on trial. But it didn’t look like Sinwar was going to turn himself in peacefully.

  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Is it justice if it’s done by an unjust party for unjust reasons?

    Like, no mourning for Sinwar here, but fuck, Israel icing him isn’t exactly what I’d be throwing ticker tape in the streets over.

    • jonne
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      4 days ago

      I can’t read the whole article, but maybe she’s seeing this as an opportunity to get Israel to dial the conflict down. Probably naive to think they’ll stop for anything at this stage though, because they’ve shown it was never about the hostages to begin with.

      • snooggums@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Why would Israel dial down the conflict when they just took out another obstacle in their march to settle all of Gaza and the West Bank and part or all of Lebanon?

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        4 days ago

        I suspect that’s what she thinks she’s doing, but I wish politicians didn’t speak in code. Just say that she expects Israel to reduce the level of conflict now. That way Israel can’t take it as a endorsement of their future actions.

      • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I feel it is more in the lines of ‘Justice is served’ justifying the genocide and continuing support of US if the genocide continues.

        Israel knows it is needed by US and Arab countries as an deterrent to Iran. And it is going to press the advantage to the extremes.

      • WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Sinwar was seen as a big impediment to any deal. Usually just he would decide to walk away from talks, as opposed to a whole delegation like the other parties. Anyway, after being imprisoned for 20 years, several of them in solitary, and writing a book glorifying martyrdom, it seems that he was fully committed to the long term struggle against the Jew and removing him may help end this genocide.

          • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
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            4 days ago

            You see, now that it’s absolutely impossible for him to do anything at all, he may stop doing certain things

        • Saleh@feddit.org
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          4 days ago

          That is bullshit. Hamas has repeatedly agreed to the Biden proposal and even offered a ceasefire deal with hostage exchange as early as October 2023.

          It was Netanyahu always sabotaging the negotiations. In particular after the Biden plan by rejecting to leave Gaza and bombing tents in Rafah, burning people alive.

          Also Sinwar wasn’t even the negotiator. It was Hanyeh, who got assassinated by Israel, while negotiations were running. A clearer sign of not wanting to negotiate does not exist.

          • WhiteOakBayou@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            I agree netanyahu’s delegation has walked away multiple times but hamas has too. Sinwar was not the negotiator, he was the military commander on the ground so even when the hamas delegation would make progress all decisions on what goes on in Gaza went through him. He wanted a war and was (at least outwardly, judging by his writing) happy to be martyred.

            I am not saying Israel is a good or consistent negotiator in this but Sinwar was a terrorist who was keeping hostages as insurance. He decided to do the attack on 10/7. This was a decision he could not get backing for from his benefactors (as far as has been reported.)

            Netanyahu knows that the US will not cut off support for them. It’s not even seriously discussed in the MSM. Bibi will continue to massacre the Palestinians until they are all displaced or dead. This is the only way he is staying in power. His alliance depends on settlers and other orthodox. That being said, maybe more western countries start pressuring him, cutting aid, air dropping food or something now that Hamas’ leadership is being degraded.

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              Israel has rejected all ceasefire resolutions that would require a permanent peace, like the 3-stage UN Resolution put forth by the US. Hamas has only rejected ceasefire resolutions that would only be temporary, meaning Israel would continue the genocide after they take the hostages, or where Israel wants to continue occupying Gaza, which isn’t peace. Kinda hard to ‘both sides’ the peace negotiations when it’s very clearly one sided.

              Gaza has never experienced peace, nor has the West Bank, there is no peace living under the daily violence of an Apartheid State.

        • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          removing him may help end this genocide.

          Genocide ends only in two conditions. Either the population is decimated or the genocide conducting party is no longer in power.

          It doesn’t seem likely Netanyahu will be removed in the near future. There is however the other possibility.

  • mlg@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Fantastic, if we go by the standards of OBL, Israel might actually decide to leave Gaza by the year 2033.

    Of course that’s based off the assumption Israel’s goals in Gaza are the same as the USA in Afghanistan, which last I checked, there was never a US led genocide in Afghanistan.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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      According to Al Jazeera, 241,000 people died in the war in Afghanistan.

      And remember that very little fighting in Afghanistan happened in urban environments.

      Both Afghanistan and Gaza are wars. The only difference is you weren’t being sent videos from the Taliban during the war in Afghanistan.

  • eran_morad@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    I’m glad this fuck is dead but jesus fuck, can we stop killing civilians for nothing?

    Lest this be taken the wrong way: Harris 2024, fuck the republican traitor filth.

    • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      Now I’m sure how white people talked about our freedom fighters like Bhagat singh and subhash chandra bose.

        • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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          2 days ago

          I meant at the time of rapid colonialism across the world. Also Bhagat Singh was executed on charges of “terrorism” and yet he is celebrated as a fierce freedom fighter since our Independence.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          2 days ago

          Hamas releasing the hostages would end the war. Why do you find the prospect of this war ending to be disgusting?

          • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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            Israel has thousands of innocent civilians in their prisons, a lot of them children. No hamas doesnt need to release the hostages until israel does it first.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              Sinwar was released in a previous deal. Then he plotted a genocide. A real genocide not the bullshit rebranding of a war as a genocide that’s a common narrative around here.

              Sinwar was found and killed outside of his bunker with only two guards, probably scrounging for food. Why would Israel want to potentially release another Sinwar? Why would they want to give Hamas new reinforcements for their next attempt at genocide?

              Hamas needs to surrender unconditionally. It’s over, they committed genocide, and now their cities are destroyed. But like how the Nazis continued on for another month after Hitler offed himself, they’ll probably continue on for a while longer. It can take a little time for people indoctrinated into fascist beliefs to understand they lost. They believe themselves to be supermen that can still somehow destroy the enemy even when it’s obvious to anyone else that they lost.

  • Media Bias Fact Checker@lemmy.worldB
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    4 days ago
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    Information for Wall Street Journal:

    MBFC: Right-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual - United States of America
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    Search topics on Ground.News

    https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/harris-trump-election-10-17-2024/card/kamala-harris-on-sinwar-death-justice-has-been-served–wH8Eobx68ZRNGHKoiwOv

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