Do they think Trump would be better than Biden when it comes to Palestinians? The Trump that moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to signal that it was an Israeli city?
“I’ll put my cards on the table: I’m a permanent resident of the US which means I’m not allowed to vote.”
Then you can STFU and sit down. You want to be able to vote? Get your citizenship. My daughter-in-law JUST did. This will be her first election. She’s not going to do anything that supports a Trump win.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/us/politics/trump-travel-ban.html
Hint - She’s from one of these countries.
👏
No, I will blame them. Make your threats to Biden all you want, put all the pressure on him to stop supporting the genocide, absolutely. But come election day if you don’t realize that Biden, even as is, is still a far, far better option than Trump, then yes anyone staying home over this is absolutely partially to blame.
As a non American I thank you for the chance to have more Trump, you fucking morons. 😕
As a non American I thank you for the chance to have more Trump, you fucking morons. 😕
Biden should consider campaigning then. If this election is so important, maybe we need a more effective candidate?
Biden could literally not say another word the rest of the year and still be the smarter choice than letting Trump in.
Do I wish he was 30 years younger and more active? Of course. I wish a lot of things. That doesn’t change that democracy is literally on the line and I’d vote for a corpse to keep Republicans out of office.
Look at the polling. Biden isn’t winning this election.
If you really want to stop Trump, you have to start using your brain and realize that by all metrics Biden is losing. This blue no matter who attitude, where its turning a blind eye to the actual campaign failure which is Joe Biden, which is happening in real time, WILL ensure us a Trump presidency.
The only poll that matters is in November. Hillary was a shoo-in in March of 2016. (And in front in March of 2008 IIRC)
No, the polling right fucking now matters.
NO candidate EVER has come back from the deficit showing.
Do you actually want to stop Trump or not?
NO candidate EVER has come back from the deficit showing.
Stop making shit up. (Or, stop getting your facts from Social media, as it’s really the same thing as making shit up).
Here, I found some actual facts for you. This is December, not March, but still relevant.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/103351/clinton-maintains-large-lead-over-obama-nationally.aspx
Obama wasn’t running on a 39% approval rating you dummy.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/
Thats what fucking matters. Do you want to fucking beat Trump or not? Whats your priority here? Running Biden or beating Trump? You have to pick one.
Edit: Oh you want Gallup? We can do Gallup
https://news.gallup.com/poll/103495/election-summary.aspx
Clinton at that time had a net favorability 30% higher than JOE FUCKING BIDEN has currently. Obama’s net favorability?
FUCKING 50% higher than Joe Bidens CURRENT NET FAVORABLY.
You are INSISTING we crash the fucking car into a brick wall.
NO candidate EVER has come back from the deficit showing.
Trump did.
Again, what the ACTUAL fuck are you talking about? Trump was NEVER net negative in polling.
Trumps 2015 polling.
and guess what? When Trump slipped in the polling in 2020, he went on to lose the election.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2020/national/
Trump was polling ~8 points higher than Joe Biden is currently and went on to lose the election. Biden was polling 30 points higher than he is currently and barely squeaked it out.
Obama did vs Romney. He was consistently down during May of 2012, and then proceeded to have a slam dunk victory.
Almost every poll I’ve seen shows it being very competitive.
What in the chicken fried fuck are you talking about?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
This is the figure I made last month. I’m regenerating it with more recent data and will add it below.
Edit: Here is the updated figure. Its gotten worse for Joe Biden. If you DO NOT WANT Trump as president, you NEED to find another candidate, RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
Let’s see the five-way polling this race actually will be about.
The guy’s losing his mind over 3 points 8 months before the election.
It’s not a great position for Biden to be in, but throwing in the towel now is a terrible idea.
Are these goal posts being moved or is this an actual request?
Because if you want a different figure generated I can do so. I’ve got the data loaded.
I heard the same rhetoric in 2020 and 2022… Besides, the campaign season hasn’t even started and Biden is out-raising Trump already.
Since you raised attitude, the problem with your attitude is that you’ve got no alternative substantive solution. You can throw peanuts from the peanut gallery all you want, but until you offer up a better solution that is consistent with reality, then people will not take you seriously. Sorry, there is no magical Obama waiting to save us. Joe Biden is what we’ve got, and at least he’s got incumbent advantage.
You mean like Monday when he was on Seth Meyers and showed he was actually pretty mentally sharp?
I don’t love Biden. I wouldn’t have voted for him if he wasn’t the front runner last time, and he’s clearly too old, but he at least sounded competent. And was coming with stuff off-the-cuff pretty quickly. To be honest, it surprised me.
Nothing short of complete annihilation of it’s current incarnation will fix the political system in America. That being said you realistically have 2 choices. Bad, and worse. Choose wisely.
Filmmaker and Michigan native Michael Moore agreed that Biden’s stance on the ongoing slaughter in Gaza could easily cost him the state, and in turn, the entire election. In a recent interview with CNN’s Abby Phillip, Moore said “I’ve been saying this month that he’s going to cost himself the election. …If Trump has any chance, it’s the decision that [Biden’s] made to embrace slaughter, carpet bombing, babies in incubators dead because they cut off the electricity, on and on and on.”
Inb4 Michael fucking Moore gets accused of being a conservative. You know it’s going to happen.
Michael Moore has been an idiot for a long time.
Was he right about Trump in 2016 or not?
Dumb gotta dumb. They’re willing to burn their country to the ground for something happening in another country. Under any other time, I’d be ok with it, but trump is an existential threat to everything the country stands for and will bathe in it’s smouldering ashes. Reap what you fucking sow.
This whole thing is so depressing. Not Gaza, which is a tragedy, but the conversation around it. People who have family members starving and dying right now are upset, and there is zero empathy for them. Just anger directed at them by people who are (or were) ostensibly on their side.
I will not be commenting further in this thread because it belongs in !politics and I’m out of antidepressants but not booze.
It’s difficult. On one hand, it is a fucking atrocity, and it’s hard to blame people for being upset that someone with the power to at least lessen the harm, isn’t.
But on the other hand, ensuring the greater evil gets in does nothing. No Palestinians are saved by a Trump presidency - and it’s very likely that MORE will die compared to a Biden administration, considering Trump’s all-in attitude with Netanyahu. Not only are no Palestinians saved, but many Ukrainians, Americans, and Taiwanese will likely suffer and die in not inconsiderable numbers directly due to a Trump presidency.
As such, it’s difficult to look at someone grieving and saying “Everyone’s throat should be cut, not just my son’s!” and react with sympathy when that has very real effects on whether or not everyone’s throat gets cut.
(Breaking my word but only because you’re cool)
If your family members are going to be shot on your dime, I don’t blame people for checking out entirely or even pushing for collapse. They’re basically powerless in our political system, and when they exercise what little influence they have to stop their families from being massacred, they’re treated like shit.
And now it’s time to drink and pet my kitty because I hate this fucking system so goddamn much.
And now it’s time to drink and pet my kitty because I hate this fucking system so goddamn much.
Yeah. World’s fucked. But maybe it will get better someday.
I guess at the basic level Biden must think the pro Israel vote is bigger than the gaza vote?
Statistically, your one vote is as meaningful whether you vote for a major party or a third party.
You don’t vote to get your preferred candidate in. You vote to pull the one that might closer to where you want them.
Voting for Biden is voting for a genocide, whether you want it to be or not. Assuming Biden gets in, all you’ve done is tell the DNC that their voter base actually don’t care all that much about genocide.
We all know how devastating a second Trump term would be. It’s also important to understand the damage that Biden is doing by funding a plausible genocide
“That’s a nice country you’ve got there. Be a shame if something happened to it…”
I mean,
If Obama’s handling of Guantanamo not closing and the drone striking of Somalia and Yemen didn’t stop his second term.
I can’t see how Gaza’s situation will affect Biden’s.Truth is, most of your population doesn’t even pay attention to the details of news, unless it’s something to do with Kardashian’s or Taylor Swift.
There is a significant Muslim population in Michigan that is paying attention. Michigan is a swing state, if Biden loses it he probably loses the election.
Good luck with Trump, the defender of the Islamic people and totally not going to bomb them trust him Bigley
That’s centrist copium really. This shit is making the news everywhere and it’s turning young voters against him. There are 10 years’ worth of voters today who weren’t eligible 10 years ago and most of them (especially if you only count democrats) are not happy about what’s going on. This is to say nothing of the Muslim voters who are destroying Biden’s chances in multiple swing states.
I will absolutely blame the voters, because it’d literally be their fault. That’s how elections work.
Well, there are also Belarussian elections.
I’ll blame each and every eligible person who didn’t show up to vote for him, regardless of what their excuse is. This isn’t the time to be playing around.
Looks like the US is going to get some tough love.
Turns out you can’t just fund, supply and cast UN vetoes in support of the genocide of an entire people and still get unconditional support at the ballot box, whoda thunkit.
And yes, the consequences are going to be hideous.
I guess you should have thought of that, what with everyone telling you over and over and over.
Cabin in the Woods moment, and you brought it on yourselves.
But you won’t blame the Biden administration for disregarding the wishes of their constituents?
Do you (or anyone who thinks not voting for Biden is a smart thing) think that Trump would do anything differently? Because those are the two choices. If you don’t vote for Biden then you are either voting for Trump or helping Trump by taking away votes from Biden… unless you live in a blue or red state where your vote doesn’t matter anyway.
I do blame Biden for how he is handling this situation. However, I am smart enough to understand that there is more than one situation that a president has to handle while in office. For the most part, Biden has honored the wishes of me as a constituent. If the only thing you care about in life is how the President of the US handles a conflict on the other side of the world, as opposed to the US economy, civil rights in the US, US Supreme Court justices, US circuit court judges, environmental policy in the US, etc., then that is your right as a voter. I hate what is going on over in Gaza (and the region in general), but I also care about is going on in the country I live in.
The Democratic Party is well past due for a purging. If they won’t do it themselves, I honestly won’t be mad to see them face the MAGAts they helped raise. Trump is 80 years old and has had a lifetime of cheeseburgers and spray tans, in the worst case scenario, he’ll last five years and America would be better off in the long term for it.
If you really think the US would be better off in the long term if Trump gets elected, then you obviously haven’t paid attention to the very long term damage he did while in office. Trump 1 got to replace 3 justices. Biden has had the chance to replace 1. With looming retirements of a couple justices, Trump 2 would get to replace another 2. That would cement a 5 to 4 ultra-conservative Supreme Court for a good 20 years. Additionally, his tax cuts for the wealthy and refusal to raise interest rates weren’t exactly great for long term stability of our economy.
I agree with the D’s needing to have a wholesale change of leadership, though.
Comservativism is a race to the bottom; its a naturally implosive idealogy. Yes, America will be better off in the long term (read: more than five years) once the Dinocrats are put out to pasture and the MAGAts kill each other in a power vacuum after Trump kicks the bucket. America needs a revolution - any revolution - and the Dems are married to the status quo. I think most actual leftists in America are waking up to the idea that they are a dead-end for actual change and the only possible route for things to get better is by weathering a decade of Trumpism and building new from the damage that is promised to bring.
The top of the wishlist of any reasonable and rational American should be, “Don’t permit a fascist demagogue to become a petty tyrant.” Biden fulfills that order handily, and if that’s not enough for someone to get them to vote for him, then the blame lies with that voter.
The top of the wishlist of any reasonable and rational American should be, “Don’t permit a fascist demagogue to become a petty tyrant.” Biden fulfills that order handily, and if that’s not enough for someone to get them to vote for him, then the blame lies with that voter.
Right now, today, supporting Biden any further is handing Trump a W.
Biden has lost the election at this point. It would be the biggest election upset of ALL TIME if he came back to win it. No incumbent this far down in the polling has EVER won an election.
If you truly want to stop Trump, stop brow beating people into supporting a lost cause and work to have a conversation around how we can get a better candidate. I think Shawn Fein.
Oh god, finally gave a name. Who the hell is Shawn Fein? If I haven’t already heard of them, it’s a lost cause too - because they have no brand recognition. This is the dilemma and one I’ve been banging on about since before Obama. It’s kind of insane the Democratic party seems to hope for a repeat of that once in a lifetime basically out of nowhere candidate / win. For reasons I don’t get, Democrats are not building up people in advance to be candidates. So people have at least heard of them.
The problem is as far as I know there aren’t any well known middle aged democrats who could run that have any national stance. Schumer is also too old, Bernie is also too old, and then there’s the sexism that makes me question if Warren could run, and then there’s the racism that makes Kamala and Cortez pretty unlikely to get far either.
I thought the entire four years that Democrats needed to have someone in the news and convince Biden to back them a year ago. That didn’t happen. We already lost this years ago if Biden can’t win it. I’m just still amazed that there’s any support for Trump (well, ever, but certainly after the facts of his first term).
Point taken on Shawn Fein. He is the UAW president, and got Biden to come down to the picket line.
But overall, almost 100% agree. I don’t see any current Democrats with ‘enough’ of the right stuff to get handed the reigns and win. Its why I’m looking outside the party. I really think if Jon Stewart were to throw his hat in, he could win. He’s young enough, he doesn’t have the baggage that an existing candidate has, people know him, he’s a darling of the left. He’s been politically active although he hasn’t run (point against I supposed, but not a deal breaker. Didn’t stop Trump did it?).
Biden has blown this campaign with his position on Israel. He needs to drive voters out, and he’s pulling a classic Democrat move of just assuming that the support for him is there. The ship is sinking. This is a five-alarm fire moment. He has no opponents in this primary and is losing support. You don’t win elections like that.
If the liberals are going to keep insisting that we support Biden even though it becomes more and more clear as time goes on that he isn’t going to win, I don’t know where that leaves us. I don’t want to suffer through what Trump will do to this country. If Trump wins, I’d be shocked if we even have elections again. Expect every non-cis person in this country to be rounded up and executed. I don’t think its hyperbole to suggest that. I think the right would do that today if they had the power.
Versus someone who would be even worse for Palestinians and Americans? No, I won’t blame Biden if people let Trump in over the issue of Palestine. Because it means they were fast asleep between 2016 and 2020.
Thats what fucking matters. Do you want to fucking beat Trump or not? Whats your priority here? Running Biden or beating Trump? You have to pick one.
There is a genocide going on now not later. Joe Biden has had multiple opportunities to stop the genocide he is currently supporting and has not. This isn’t a hypothetical. If Israel is allowed to continue, by April, there won’t be a Palestinian people in Gaza to consider. They’ll have been starved/ bombed to death, by Israel with the explicit support of Joe Biden.
Do you not fucking get it?
There’s another genocide going on now in the U.S. that people like you don’t seem to care about and which Trump will absolutely make far worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
Because the genocide of queer people in the U.S. apparently is far less important and if Trump gets into office, has already planned and made clear that it will be far worse.
But who cares about queer people in America, am I right? Just let them die.
So we’re just completely changing the subject?
Just seriously ask yourself if you want Trump to be president again. If the answer to this is “No”, the look at the data and see how Joe Biden is doing. He’s doing fucking horribly. He’s losing this election and we haven’t even had the convention yet. His support is very low and is dropping. If you insist on proceeding with Biden as candidate, you are insisting on a losing proposition.
If you are concerned about queer rights, you better figure out a better option than Biden, because by the numbers, he’s not going to win in November.
Pointing out that you are ignoring a genocide in the U.S. that Trump and his people want to make worse is not changing the subject. It’s pointing out that you’re ignoring a genocide. Which you are.
But please tell me who I should vote for to stop that genocide. Give the name of the candidate that would get enough votes to beat Trump.
Because if you wanted someone other than Biden, you shouldn’t have waited until after the primaries started.
But go ahead- give me a name.
Millions of Palestinians are facing starvation right now. They will be dying en-masse before the end of March if something doesn’t change. Joe Biden is supporting this. He just lost There is no equivalence happening within the borders of the United States, except maybe our prison system. Yes the Republicans are setting the ground work for a genocide of queer people in this country. We have to stop them. Insisting that we support a candidate who is clearly losing the election is no way to do this. We can’t afford to lose this election and insisting that Biden be the nominee is insisting we lose this election.
Uncommitted just won two delegates in Michigan. Biden will not win this election unless he massively shifts his position on Gaza.
Joe Biden has had multiple opportunities to stop the genocide he is currently supporting and has not.
So, are you claiming that if the United States stops sending some military aid to Israel, Netanyahu will be unable to continue military operations in Gaza? Because if so, you are sorely mistaken. Israel’s military is perfectly self-sufficient, and if you think they particularly care about some UN resolutions, you need to talk to some Israelis.
American support in this is not a significant factor in the outcome. Joe Biden could not unilaterally stop Israeli operations in Gaza unless he declared war on Israel and deployed troops, and I can assure you that isn’t going to be happening. Not to mention, China, Russia, India, Europe, and all of South America also exist. Americans do not unilaterally decide everything that happens or doesn’t happen in the world. We’re not that important.
The United States was the sole veto of a ceasefire 20 days ago.
American support in this is not a significant factor in the outcome.
If it wasn’t for US support of Israel, Israel would be north Egypt.
Or the Democratic establishment rigging a primary in 2020, and then forgoing one in 2024, to have one of the least democratic races of all time?
If this was an election in Turkey, the US would be imposing sanctions.
anyone who doesn’t vote for Joe or someone like him is the same brand of selfish and stupid, and you can all eat shit
