Just those who joined a literal terrorist cell I’d say. It’s not their fault, but giving brainwashed, radicalized religious zealots citizenship in the very societies they left to destroy is even more wrong. And while we shield children from most consequences, some things are too heinous to forgive like that.
Its not about giving her citizenship, she already had it from birth but had it stripped away under the pretence that she could get Bangladeshi citizenship (which they dispute). This is essentially the UK trying to dump its problems elsewhere and setting the awful precedent that if you have recent ancestors with another nationality you can be stripped of the one you were born with.
By all means punish her, lock her up for 30 years for all I care, but trying to pretend she isn’t British and foisting the problem elsewhere is disgusting.
The Daily Telegraph reported that Begum had developed a reputation as an enforcer amongst other members of IS and had tried to recruit other young women to join the group.
I’m having a hard time working up any sympathy honestly.
I don’t see any need for sympathy for her, as I said lock her up for however long is appropriate. The problem is the UK trying to dump its problem citizens on other countries and setting a dangerous precedent for stripping away peoples citizenship and potentially leaving them stateless (which is against all sorts of international agreements)
Begum asked for the UK’s forgiveness and claimed that she still supported “some British values”. She said she had been partly inspired to join IS by videos of fighters beheading hostages and also of “the good life” under the group.
When asked about the Manchester Arena bombing, she said she was shocked and didn’t “know about the kids”, then said it was wrong to kill innocent people, but that IS considered it justified as retaliation for the coalition bombing of IS-held areas. When questioned about rape, enslavement and murder of Yazidi women, she claimed, “Shia do the same in Iraq”.*
on February 2019, her father Ahmed Ali said, “If she at least admitted she made a mistake then I would feel sorry for her and other people would feel sorry for her, but she does not accept her wrong.” Begum reacted by stating that she regretted speaking to the media and said the UK is making an example out of her.
I suppose you’re of the belief that Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe shouldn’t be gaoled for the murder of Brianna Ghey as well because they were only 16 and what could they possibly know about right or wrong being little children, unable to make decisions on their own.
She is an unremorseful piece of utter shit who directly caused suffering onto others, after being inspired by watching innocent people being murdered. A teenager is not some completely helpless thing, they are capable of making horrific decisions of their own will and sometimes they must live with the consequences of those choices as I’m sure you no doubt agree should happen such as with the Ghey case. If it was something minor, you could probably argue that it was just a stupid childhood mistake, this goes far above and beyond that.
Just to be clear I think she should be in jail (or juvenile before that) for participating in war crimes.
She should be in a British jail.
Disowning your citizens when they commit crimes overseas and turning them into the world’s problem - more specifically the problem of very impoverished nations like Syria and Bangladesh - is an irresponsible, selfish, and shitty thing for the UK to do.
It’s not a view I think you hold, it’s an example of how I think you don’t adhere to your ‘she wasn’t capable of consenting’ argument because I hope you agree that Jenkinson and Ratcliffe were able to ‘consent’ to their own actions at a similar age.
And if you don’t think she can consent, and is actually a victim in all this, why do you want her gaoled?
@Deceptichum I had never heard of those people and had to google them. I… really don’t want to deep dive into true crime right now so I don’t hold an opinion on whether they can be sucessfuly rehabbed but the point I made elsewhere about child soldiers applies in general - it’s a difficult area to deal with, but Western countries need to step up.
My guiding principle here is that I believe human rights are inalienable.
I’m arguing against the idea that there is anything a 15 year old can do that strips them of their human rights.
And it’s ironic that if she’d just been trafficked to Rotherford or something half the people deriving enjoyment from her current status would have had a different response.
She voluntarily chose to go join ISIS after watching videos of people being beheaded, you make it sound like she was kidnapped off of the street and shipped to the middle east against her will.
I’m gonna agree with the UK on this one, you wanna fuck off and join ISIS you can live with the decision elsewhere.
Should all children who are groomed and exploited be cast out? Or just those children who are groomed and exploited in specific ways?
Just those who joined a literal terrorist cell I’d say. It’s not their fault, but giving brainwashed, radicalized religious zealots citizenship in the very societies they left to destroy is even more wrong. And while we shield children from most consequences, some things are too heinous to forgive like that.
Its not about giving her citizenship, she already had it from birth but had it stripped away under the pretence that she could get Bangladeshi citizenship (which they dispute). This is essentially the UK trying to dump its problems elsewhere and setting the awful precedent that if you have recent ancestors with another nationality you can be stripped of the one you were born with.
By all means punish her, lock her up for 30 years for all I care, but trying to pretend she isn’t British and foisting the problem elsewhere is disgusting.
I’m having a hard time working up any sympathy honestly.
She’s a citizen of the caliphate or whatever now?
I don’t see any need for sympathy for her, as I said lock her up for however long is appropriate. The problem is the UK trying to dump its problem citizens on other countries and setting a dangerous precedent for stripping away peoples citizenship and potentially leaving them stateless (which is against all sorts of international agreements)
This seems hardly like a recurring theme. But clearly seems legal under british law.
Seems like she can and should be tried in Syria.
@Zellith this, she was groomed in the UK and trafficked at age 15 by a people smuggler (who was actually a 5 Eyes/ Canadian asset, what’s worse).
And “married” off a few days later.
Anyone who thinks 15 is too young for the age of consent should face the fact she wasn’t capable of consenting to any of that.
No, fuck her.
Shamima Begum ‘was member of feared Isis morality police’ in Syria
I suppose you’re of the belief that Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe shouldn’t be gaoled for the murder of Brianna Ghey as well because they were only 16 and what could they possibly know about right or wrong being little children, unable to make decisions on their own.
She is an unremorseful piece of utter shit who directly caused suffering onto others, after being inspired by watching innocent people being murdered. A teenager is not some completely helpless thing, they are capable of making horrific decisions of their own will and sometimes they must live with the consequences of those choices as I’m sure you no doubt agree should happen such as with the Ghey case. If it was something minor, you could probably argue that it was just a stupid childhood mistake, this goes far above and beyond that.
@Deceptichum that’s a pretty weird straw man.
Just to be clear I think she should be in jail (or juvenile before that) for participating in war crimes.
She should be in a British jail.
Disowning your citizens when they commit crimes overseas and turning them into the world’s problem - more specifically the problem of very impoverished nations like Syria and Bangladesh - is an irresponsible, selfish, and shitty thing for the UK to do.
It’s not a view I think you hold, it’s an example of how I think you don’t adhere to your ‘she wasn’t capable of consenting’ argument because I hope you agree that Jenkinson and Ratcliffe were able to ‘consent’ to their own actions at a similar age.
And if you don’t think she can consent, and is actually a victim in all this, why do you want her gaoled?
@Deceptichum I had never heard of those people and had to google them. I… really don’t want to deep dive into true crime right now so I don’t hold an opinion on whether they can be sucessfuly rehabbed but the point I made elsewhere about child soldiers applies in general - it’s a difficult area to deal with, but Western countries need to step up.
My guiding principle here is that I believe human rights are inalienable.
I’m arguing against the idea that there is anything a 15 year old can do that strips them of their human rights.
And it’s ironic that if she’d just been trafficked to Rotherford or something half the people deriving enjoyment from her current status would have had a different response.
She voluntarily chose to go join ISIS after watching videos of people being beheaded, you make it sound like she was kidnapped off of the street and shipped to the middle east against her will.