- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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Not being shot also helps
Also not being run over by cars, and having the ability to walk/bike/take transit to get to places.
Netherlands doesn’t represent the whole europe. This isn’t the cycling/public transport utopia you think it is.
I’m well aware on account of living in non-Netherlands Europe.
It’s a mixed bag for sure, but Europe as a whole does better on both the metrics I mentioned as compared to the U.S.
Exactly. Live in the U.S and just trying to look for a place that puts you in non-car distance to ANYTHING basically shows you one of two options:
- Quaint small vacation towns that are expensive because they’re full of retirees. Won’t find great jobs or necessities there…
- …Or giant, overcrowded, crazy metros like Chicago, NYC, San Francisco. . .which are also absurdly expensive, dangerous, and downright filthy.
I feel like Europe at least gives you a way better chance of finding SOMEWHERE that works.
Yeah but most places in Europe don’t have 16 lane highways. And there’s quite a lot of old tracks that you can cycle along even if the main roads don’t have separated bike and traffic.
In the US you have the, guaranteed to cause collisions, grid layout and that’s basically it. If the Americans could get a hold of the idea of not driving into each other they could also have roundabouts.
While true compared to the USA almost every city in Europe is a bicycle dream.
Maybe biking is an exception, but for public transportation and walking, it is absolutely true that pretty much all of Europe is much better. It’s not even close.
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Universal healthcare might help but it is also–
- Auto accidents driven by car culture.
- Higher drug and alcohol abuse rates.
- Higher suicide rates driven by access to firearms.
- A culture of unhealthy eating that leads to obesity, heart disease, and increased risk of cancer.
Don’t forget the wage slave mentality: forced long hours, extreme stress in a fast pace work environment, the non-existent vacation days, and at-will employment
Is alcohol abuse more prevalent in the US?
The US alcohol consumption avg. is 2.51 gallons, or 9.5 litres per person and year. In the EU the average is also 9.5 litres per person and year. For drug abuse i know the US have the specific opiod problem, but that also seems to be a result of a poor healthcare system, where taking painkillers until addiction is chosen over actually solving the underlying injuries for monetary reasons.
For the alcohol question, I’m actually very interested in seeing a stat of solitary drinking vs social drinking, and how it affects these statistics.
For instance I know parts of Europe still hold a very strong comraderie “pub culture.” Alcohol is involved but so are strong social bonds.
The U.S has lately been making lots of quips about “wine moms” driven to sneak cheap chardonnay from the top cabinet, as well as the cliché portrayal of “working man who is so chewed up and burned out he needs a whisky and TV to sleep.”
Not a fan of heavy drinking in general, but I hypothesize alcohol paired with isolation is much more likely to result in abuse and depression.
Plus less stress due to a culture that values family and recreation time.
Don’t underrate the amount of walking Europeans do compared to Americans. That casual exercise makes a huge difference. Europe is much more urban than the US and they generally walk a lot more than we do.
Not saying it’s enough to be in the best shape of your life but it’s really good for you.
About point 4, there is this really weird phenomenon that people going one way or the other replicate the same results without consciously changing the way you eat. Americans eating “unhealthy” in Europe get better and Europeans “eating healthy” in the US get worse.
Point 3 is just wrong.
Japanese don’t have easy access to guns and yet Japan has one of the highest suicide rates.
Same with Uruguay, highest suicide rate in America without having easy access to guns.
Nope. It’s been scientifically shown that eating vegetables, clean protein, and olive oil drastically reduces your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and stroke. Things that Americans don’t eat.
Checks pizza:
- Flour crust, vegetable
- Pepperoni, clean cooked protein
- Olive Oil, probably
- two hamburgers for protein
- iceberg lettuce for vegetables
- cheese, more proteins
- special sauce - vitamins
- onions and pickles- veggies
- bun with sesame seeds - more veggies
McD’s serves a complete Mediterranean meal and no one talks about that!
What Americans do you know? Everyone I know eats all of those things every single day.
Turns out there’s more than just those 6 people in America.
The American diet is uniquely awful. Your social group is likely to include people in a similar socioeconomic position to you. If that means those people are eating lots of vegetables and clean fats then congratulations, you’re doing pretty well.
That does not describe the diet of most Americans. It’s rich in refined carbohydrates, “dirty” fats, processed meat, and very few vegetables, and the primary vegetable is the potato, which is also essentially just another carbohydrate. It’s better than deep fried flour, but not by much.
Pizza, all things considered, is fine, practically healthy, compared to the cheeseburger and fries that makes up the typical lunch for many Americans.
Most of the food we have easy, cheap access to is arguably addictive, high carbohydrate, low in nutrient, and generally just bad for you.
Which is why we have an obesity crisis and some of the worst rates of diabetes in the world.
Most of the food we have easy, cheap access to is arguably addictive, high carbohydrate, low in nutrient, and generally just bad for you.
This has been a complaint of mine, and my friends/family for a long time. You can’t get healthy snacks, and if you can, they’re expensive. I can get a payday candy bar, which is peanuts mixed with candy and a shit load of sugar and additives for - I guess they’re about a dollar now. But if you want a small bag of peanuts without any of the other shit, it costs 3x more money. Seriously, what the fuck is that about? I can give a dozen other examples, but I’m sure you get it already.
And then if you look for less or no salt, you might be looking at even more of a premium, or at least have it be harder to find
We’re talking about the more than half of America that is fat and sometimes diabetic.
Those people are less healthy than people who eat no processed food
Ed. Updated to make it more clear I’m not claiming most Americans are diabetic
I do not believe you that more than half of Americans are diabetic. That’s just preposterous.
I really meant the obesity rate. I know that doesn’t equal diabetic, but it’s on the pathway
I should change it to “and/or”
Yeah, obesity is a rising epidemic worldwide. European and Asian countries are importing American fast food restaurants & food options, and our exercise habits are changing drastically as we all become more computer-bound. The USA does have a bigger issue with obesity now though than most European and Asian countries (if not all of them). It’s sad, because it’s totally preventable, even with all of the shitty options existing.
A lot of the people that are considered medically obese aren’t what you’d actually consider obese, meaning they’re not extremely fat. At 25% body fat a man is considered obese, even if he’s a skinny looking gamer. As far as raw data goes, bodybuilders often get categorized as overweight or obese too. Any medical records that use BMI will show a muscular person as overweight. Anyways, what I’m getting at is that the data doesn’t accurately reflect what sort of condition many people are actually in, but being actually overweight and fat is becoming a lot more common now. Look at Chunk from The Goonies movie. He was considered very fat when I was a kid, but he just looks like an average kid now. We really need to push each other to turn over a new leaf… or eat one.
It’s about 12% only a few percent more than the rest of the world. Obesity is another story tho.
And pretty surely along with a lot of sugar and other bad shit. Anyone outside the US very easily sees how much crap is in your food, and how fat and unhealthy a disturbing amount of people are. Eating cheap in most of the world is usually pretty healthy, but in the US the accepted quality of fast food is very low so eating cheap usually becomes just eating that. And then there’s high-fructose corn syrup in almost everything, which isn’t the case anywhere else. And really weird shit like sugar in peanut butter, what the fuck?
Those are all choices though. Yes, they’re available and people definitely buy them, but those aren’t the only choices. Right next to the Jiffy peanut butter are some natural peanut butter options that don’t even include emulsifiers to keep the oils from separating. Just like fast food burgers. Yes, you can do yourself a disservice and go to McDonald’s, or you can go to the local Mediterranean kitchen right next door and get a semi healthy gyro for less money. Some areas do have limited options though, and I’m glad I don’t live in those areas. It can also become a challenge when you’re on a road trip.
TIL I’m not American.
Welcome to Europe, comrade!
Romans are stuffing their faces with cacio e pepe and guanciale asking “what’s a vegetable?” Oh yeah, the appetizer.
Urban Romans also tend to walk a lot more than the typical American does, and as it turns out, walking every day is extremely effective at combating weight gain and diabetes.
Walking doesn’t give you vitamins and fiber that you need from vegetables. That’s what this conversation is about: food.
If they were deficient in those nutrients they’d have higher rates of metabolic disease than they do.
Walking is part of the Mediterranean diet which os what OP is actually talking about, even if they are not aware of it
What are you talking about? I eat vegetables. I always have a baked potato and corn on-the-cob as sides with my steak. /s
Off work late? Hungry, but too tired to cook? Try 30 to 40 olives. 30 to 40 olives: an easy weeknight dinner. eat them directly out of the jar with your fingers. you will certainly not regret eating 30 to 40 olives.
…this is why I rarely keep olives at home.
Good point–they make a terrific snack in the office or on the go! 30 to 40 olives… mmmmm
Olives? Just stab me, it’ll be less painful.
I love olives. I didn’t think you could have too many olives.
Once, on my honeymoon, I was at an expensive buffet. I found out just how many olives is too many olives. It was something like 35. More than that many olives is too many olives.
You can stomach more than 5 olives?
But it is healthy lifestyles that are leading to the increase life expectancy. Also healthy life’s make universal health care cheaper.
Are you sayong that this is a positivity spiral?
Meme is funny, but this is the true reason. And universal hc is affordable in many countries because US enrollees subsidize it. Costs of medications here are significantly higher, as priced by the manufacturer to make profits and reinvest. The EU is a secondary market they play in to not look like total dicks. (I have been a part of this machine)
If eating olives makes you live longer, I’ll just die young.
Yech.
But olive oil is amazing.
I hate whole olives, but a great olive oil with bread is one of the essential joys in this world.
Why do you think Doug Doug chugs olive oil, like full bottles of it, on streams sometimes
I think there is going to be a difference between chugging a bottle of oil and putting a light coating on some salad or veg.
I’m okay with it as long as the taste isn’t overpowering.
Upon hearing your anti olive stance OPEC (Olive Producing European Countries) have decided to have you executed. Once again proving that eating olives increases your life expectancy.
Worth it.
otherwise known as superior civilization. downvote away, barbarians
Bravo!!
Not just universal health care but general lifestyle. But fast food, lack of amenities, and increasing reliance on cars will mean some Europeans turn into sedentary obese blobs and suffer the same health complications, if not expense, as their American counterparts.
We have fast food here, and in many places public transport is bad enough that you have to drive to not be fired for being late to work too many times.
It’s just that with most healthcare concerns, we don’t need to remortgage the house…
Mostly a UK problem though. Source: British living in EU
Also a problem in France. I have family in southern France, and there’s plenty of American fast food restaurants around, all very popular.
I would love to not have to pay $800usd +$200 monthly insurance just to get a questionable mole removed :')
They take a little over one third of my pay check in taxes, which includes welfare (pension, etc) and healthcare, wealth tax and stuff.
You still pay for it, but when it really makes the difference is for the unlucky, who need lengthy and/or expensive care, they are supported by the better off, “mutual assistance”.
Of course some people want to reap the benefits of living in a modern society without having to do their part.
It is also much cheaper. The US spends double the amount of money per capita on healthcare than compareable western european countries.
Universal healthcare is so much more efficient. When Obama was asked why he just wanted to do the ACA and not universal healthcare he said, that there is 3 million jobs in the adminsitrative side of private health insurance, that would fall away otherwise. But those people could work other jobs and provide a benefit to the economy. The inefficiency of the US system is insane.
Garbage conservative misinformation whether on purpose or not.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/
The US spends wildly more per capita on healthcare than any other country and we have worse outcomes and worse service. Of course you still have to pay for public healthcare, it is much, much less expensive though. The US is wildly overpaying for worse healthcare due to corruption and market failure.
Actually a lot of countries I find are getting a ton of propaganda that private Healthcare is “good”. That public/universal is bad. They apply the misinformation pressure towards taxes and wait time for an appointment. Saying private will be their salvation.
Of course we know different. We know we wait just as long as they do(in fact usually longer), pay 3x+ more for shoddy service. That the doctors are tired going through hoops, they just want to treat their patients. But the news in those countries seem heavily pressured to say otherwise. While visiting i saw some fucked up commercials and even a 2hr long news episode saying private is basically a godsend. Really eerie. Of course no system is perfect, yet, so it’s easy to point at the universal “failures” … but private will exacerbate all of those issues. They don’t tell them that though.
So I don’t think the guy was purposefully being malicious, but definitely on the receiving end of some of that propaganda.
I really don’t care about what you guys do, I’m just sharing how it works so people don’t think it just falls from the sky.
You’re all so fucking polarized in your political standoff that you can’t even read a simple descriptive post without thinking THE OTHER SIDE IS UP TO SOMETHING. Chill the fuck down.
We know, we already pay high taxes in most states. For most people, universal healthcares monthly charges would be 2-3x less than they pay on monthly insurance alone. Then we also have added costs, premiums, deductibles we have to hit (usually pay in 3k+ yearly to hit the deductible) and then they can still charge 20% on any costs accrued. It’s hell.
I shouldn’t have to debate between cancer and food/rent for a minor, 15 min procedure.
Bub. Including the amount I end up paying for Healthcare, they take way over a third of my paycheck.
Edit- also hold up, you still get pensions over there??
Edit- also hold up, you still get pensions over there??
uhm, well, others do, of course Millenials will have to settle with just dying early
Yeah, no. They have 70 different systems and what you’re talking about is the Mediterranean diet.
… which is also quite problematic:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/6/20/17464906/mediterranean-diet-science-health-predimed
oh. Vox. that’s definitive.
Did you read it? The whole article cites papers in every paragraph
Yeah, I did. Seems like much ado about nothing.
Vox was started by Ezra Klein and has a good reputation in academia for explanatory journalism.
I know that the USA is by far the largest anglosphere country and so a lot of English-language discussion you see online is very American, but it’s a pain in the arse seeing this sort of generalisation about a wildly diverse continent just because a few of the more vocal yanks think the EU sounds a bit like the USA. Does OP think a Finn, a Brit, and a Greek all have a similar diet? Or a similar government, for that matter?
Which afaik still is in a scientific debate, and probably not in itself responsible for people in those countries being more healthy
Anecdotalish, but I’m not american. People I know work in the states for a period of time tend to mention they gain weight while in the states for a time, and then lose it when they get home, back to baseline, and they really can’t quite put their finger on why. I figure corn syrup. It’s like as subtle as the HP sauce, the stuff in England has a different recipe than the American, white vinegar, orange juice concentrate, corn syrup etc in the American one, basically cheaper ingedients, the English original has a subtler, less vinegar harsh, smokier flavour.
It’s all a massive conspiracy, just like how they said carrots are good for your eyes.
Yeah, let’s eat meat, smoke and drink heavily. 🤷♂️/s
That’s extra funny cause in France governement regularly talk about wine like it’s not any other alcohol and bad for health
It’s not often discussed but as waiting lists can be long for free at point of use health care, most big companies offer private healthcare for employees that costs ~£50 per month.
I find that a very good deal.
Waiting lists are long over here in the US too, depending on the specialty and region. We’re simply overpaying for the same quality healthcare while still failing to get 100% coverage.
This is incorrect.
We are overpaying for lower quality healthcare.
We have worse outcomes than countries with free healthcare.
As my father used to say “it may be bad, but it’s expensive.”
I’m a 30 year old who’s been waiting 14 months for a doctors visit to establish a primary care physician in the US.
I paid for a whole year of employer provided healthcare that I couldn’t even use the most basic function of. This system is great
As my father used to say “it may be bad, but it’s expensive.”
“You can find better quality but you can’t pay more”. Is the phrasing I heard.
I’d have to look at the most recent numbers, but the usual addage is that rich countries (US included) all have roughly the same overall quality of care, but they each have areas they’re particularly good or bad in. We’re particularly bad at maternal and neonatal care, but we’re quite good at cancer. It’s been a while since I’ve dived into the numbers, though.
Yes the exception is places like Massachusetts, which has some of the best quality healthcare in the world. But, you guessed it, they have a universal healthcare system similar to Germany.
You know what’s fun? In the US, we still have “concierge doctors”, who charge an annual fee just to have access to their offices. This is on top of the cost of insurance, assuming they accept it, and it can be thousands of dollars per year. This additional fee also lets you “skip the line”, since non-concierge doctors can have a many-month wait for “new patient” appointments.
I’m so glad we don’t have to worry about all those problems that come with public healthcare systems. /s
My doctor just moved and became one of those. I’m very mad at her for leaving cus she’s freaking awesome.
My son’s pediatrician operates her practice in a “direct primary care” model, which is sort of concierge-light with a significantly lower monthly fee. There are some catches, and it doesn’t replace proper insurance so I’m still paying for that on top of the monthly office fee. But on the other hand, our appointments aren’t a rush-job where we get like five minutes of face-time with the pediatrician and then shuttled out the door, and we can message her any time of the day to ask “yo what’s this rash” and usually get an answer (and occasionally a script for an ointment) within a half-hour, without having to go through the rigamarole of trying to get an appointment that’s usually so far out you’re better off waiting and hoping the problem resolves itself.
Is this the UK? As (company) private schemes in the UK allow you to jump the queue, pushing people who cant or wont pay further back down the queue.
Its also significantly cheaper than the actual cost of a fully privatised solution because its subsidised by the NHS.
Majority of Doctors and Nurses who do private work spend the bulk of their working week for the NHS, and a large percentage of them were trained by the NHS.
Do I blame people who go private because they do not want to wait? No, but its also not a good argument for further privatisation as further expansion of this system reduces capacity of the NHS.
Yes, UK.
I’m against further privatisation as the competition it was meant to create just led to inefficiency. Example: public health providers now hire sales staff to win them contacts. Also data sharing became difficult between areas.
Another Big Oil op
/s
As someone living in a country with universal healthcare I truly do wish it was like people online make it sound to be. Turns out you got to wait for a long time to see a doctor and you have to pay for it. Obviously it wont bankrupt you like it would in the US, but it’s not exactly free either.
That’s usually down to underfunding than anything else, though. The NHS, for example, is a shadow of what it was like 20 years ago, thanks to years of purposeful underfunding.
And the prupose of the underfunding is to create the conditions on which to sell a fully privatized healthcare system to the population.
Yep, and sadly to many it works really well. There are plenty of people in the UK that believe that we should just tear it down and put a private sector in to fund itself. Most of them are blissfully unaware that they earn below the average threshold, and with cost of living being what it is here, they would be absolutely fucked should they need treatment.
I’d say it’s funny how Americans love some European approaches to healthcare, while some European countries have bought into the US system as an option - but it’s frankly upsetting that people would turn their back on nationalised healthcare because some right-wing cunts want to underfund it…
Same. I live in Germany and used to live in the US (both with and without insurance). I would rather be here and support this system where everyone has access to Healthcare, but there is much I miss from the US. The care I got in the US (obviously stupid expensive) was better, easier and quicker. With that said, the care here is fine and enough and available for all but shouldn’t be viewed through the rose colored glasses of americans.
I think it is a bit unfair to speak of rose colored glasses there.
There is many people in the US who simply cannot afford an ambulance being called for them, if they are in a serious health situation. The people that have “rose colored” glasses in this context are the people whose options are “any healthcare” and “no healthcare”.
Fair comment, but don’t think that I don’t know how it is. I lived in the US for 28 years. The first 19 or 20 of which I had no insurance of any kind and was also fairly poor. I know all about not being able to see a doctor when sick or hurt.
