The verdict comes after a dramatic day in court that included the former president storming out of the courtroom during Carroll's closing argument.

Former President Donald Trump must pay writer E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in damages for repeatedly defaming her, a jury found Friday.

The nine-person jury began deliberations in federal court in New York at 1:40 p.m. ET and reached a verdict in just under three hours.

  • PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world
    2242·
    9 months ago

    Trump’s attorney Alina Habba contended that Carroll “had failed to show she is entitled to any damages at all” because she “actively sought the comments and the attention” she received.

    Wow. They actually used the “she was asking for it” argument against a victim of sexual assault.

    Also, he’s still not going to shut up about it and will land back in court under additional defamation charges.

    • Telorand@reddthat.com
      1451·
      9 months ago

      Not exactly. It’s far more insidious (and stupid). Her tact was to show that Carroll already received her financial reward by all the books and news appearances (i.e. the “comments and attention”). Basically, “Sure, she was raped, but look how well she profited from it!”

      Too bad that kind of argument is only really relevant to the first trial. This one was punitive damages for failing to shut up after losing the first one, the purpose of which is to punish Trump so he thinks twice about doing it again, not award reparations to Ms. Carroll.

      Alina Habba is truly the lawyer Trump deserves.

      • PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world
        371·
        9 months ago

        I agree, and my comment was intended as a reference not to the original rape but to the defense saying that she did not deserve any additional compensation due to Trump’s ongoing defamation because she wanted to profit off of it.

        If I remember, one of his initial defenses against the allegations of rape was that the woman accusing him was too unattractive to rape, while other defenses were “they just let you do it.” I was thinking about the ironic application of the “asking for it” argument being applied to the additional judgement of defamation.

        He’s going to triple down on this though, because he never thinks twice about anything. I don’t know if he is actually playing the game of “never admit to being wrong even when you are” or if he’s simply delusional enough to have reconstructed reality in his own brain, but I’d lay a wager that he’s not going to be able to shut up about this, even now. I don’t think it will even take a reporter triggering him by asking about it. I think it’s just going to pop out in one of his word salad campaign rambles.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
          18·
          9 months ago

          I think it’s just going to pop out in one of his word salad campaign rambles.

          And I can’t wait for that to happen, because I’m sure a third jury will be so pleased (/s) he did it a third time.

          • jonne
            4·
            9 months ago

            Maybe next time he could at least be smart enough to do it in a red state.

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
      5·
      9 months ago

      He knows very well how profitable being a victim can be and must think that that’s why anyone is a victim. They don’t win cases (because Trump hasn’t ever really had a case), they settle out of court or gain from the sympathy of others.

  • IHeartBadCode@kbin.social
    1381·
    9 months ago

    The sheer speed at which the jury came to this determination is a really good sign that everyone on the jury was like “fuck this dude in particular”. Not only that, what I think was hilarious was that Trump’s testimony about his valuation in his NY civil trail was submitted and accepted as evidence for the determination on this fine. Like literally some Loony Toons Wile E. Coyote exploding in your face kind of thing.

    This was such a massive L for Trump’s legal team that I believe the correct lawyer term is HA HA HA HAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA!!

    I swear, I’m just waiting for what creative backhoing their graves Trump’s team will be doing in the appeals.

    What’s that saying? “Speech is free. Lies are expensive.”

    • Riccosuave@lemmy.worldOP
      651·
      9 months ago

      “Speech is free. Lies are expensive.”

      I’m gonna go ahead and borrow this, and then save it for later.

      • GraniteM@lemmy.world
        3·
        9 months ago

        I open my mouth and out pops something spiteful

        Words are so cheap, but they can turn out expensive

        Words like conviction can turn into a sentence

    • Sage the Lawyer@lemmy.world
      24·
      9 months ago

      I believe the correct lawyer term is HA HA HA HAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA!!

      Lawyer here. Can confirm.

    • Seleni@lemmy.world
      8·
      9 months ago

      ‘Speech is free, but lies you have to pay for.’ - Louis Tompros, lawyer with WilmerHale and lecturer at Harvard Law School.

    • jonne
      7·
      9 months ago

      I mean, throwing a tantrum and storming out of court is going to be seen as a sign of disrespect by any jury. I bet if there even was a Trump supporter in the jury they’d be turned off by his behaviour.

  • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
    893·
    9 months ago

    Wow, 3x the money in punitive damage. Imagine how bad it’d be if this country did anything but fine rich people for being evil…

    • Riccosuave@lemmy.worldOP
      631·
      9 months ago

      I overshot the damages award in a previous comment I made. I thought it was going to be closer to $150 million, but $83 million is still substantial. Plus there is a strong likelihood E. Jean Carroll and Robbie Kaplan could sue Donald Trump for defamation again for all the things he posted during this trial.

    • admiralteal@kbin.social
      35·
      9 months ago

      Waiting for the SCOTUS to (again) reduce punitive damage limits in order to protect their special boy.

      Historically, they HATE punitive civil damages and look for cases to cut them back. That’s where the current ~4x limit currently exists, which even in the State Farm decision was clearly flagged as toeing the line.

      Just look at how little actual damage Exxon ever paid for the Valdez spill. Or McDonalds for the hot coffee. These punitive damages always have a habit of just evaporating after the headlines. Leaving the victim little better off than before.

    • mercano@lemmy.world
      19·
      9 months ago

      It’s a civil case, unfortunately, so jail time was never an option. At the time the incident occurred, there was a five year statute of limitations, so Trump has never been charged criminally in the matter.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
        17·
        9 months ago

        There’s something truly gross about a civil case being the only recourse for a heinous crime.

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
    854·
    9 months ago

    Fucking loser always loses.

    He’s demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just got more loser-y folks… If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here’s a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.

    • 0 re-elections won
    • 1 term president
    • 2 times impeached
    • 3 marriages
    • 4 inch lifts in his shoes
    • 5 kids, from 3 different mothers
    • 6 bankruptcies
    • 7 US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
    • 8 trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
    • 9 trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant’s legal fees
    • 10 years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
    • 11 trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
    • 12 million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
    • 13 of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
    • 14 year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, “Wow! Just think - in a couple years I’ll be dating you.”
    • 15 originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 1,000,000 Americans have since died of COVID as it continues to kill years later.
    • 16 years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted “miss teen” pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, “trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew.”
    • 17 known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
    • 18 gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin’s infrastructure bill.
    • 19 as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the “misinformation conversation” originated with trump
    • 20 the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
    • 21 gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members “losers” and “suckers” and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly “bone spurs” excuse.
    • 22 date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
    • 23 as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
    • 24 day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
    • 25 plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
        161·
        9 months ago

        The Liz Truss lettuce is tricky because while the lettuce only lasted 6 days, they didn’t start counting until 14/10/22 when she had been sworn in on 6/9/22.

        Technically a Mooch (11 or 10 days) is longer than a lettuce, but the lettuce measurement was artificially shortened. ;)

        Both are still longer than a Brittany Spears marriage at 55 hours.

  • twistypencil@lemmy.world
    45·
    9 months ago

    I’d be fine if he keeps doing this and Carroll just bleeds him and his supporters dry and she becomes mega rich

  • RedditReject@lemmy.world
    401·
    9 months ago

    He wouldn’t have to pay anything if he could have kept his little anus mouth shut.

    I give it less than a day before he defames her again.

    • bmsok@lemmy.world
      9·
      9 months ago

      Oh my god his mouth actually DOES look like a butthole!

      Thank you for allowing my eyes to experience trauma in a whole new way today

    • papertowels@lemmy.one
      1·
      9 months ago

      Right? All he had to do was be a decent human being, or barring that, at least pretend to not be a vindictive asshole.

  • ansiz@lemmy.worldEnglish
    391·
    9 months ago

    It’s complete insanity that neither party is using this case against Trump during the primaries. Especially Haley, it’s a gift wrapped opportunity for her to score points on Trump and she completely ignores it. Her campaign was a lost cause from the start but none of the Republican candidates have acted like they are even trying.

    • eran_morad@lemmy.world
      35·
      9 months ago

      Let me get this straight: you think the

      grab em by the pussy

      crowd is gonna give a flying shit?!?

    • 0110010001100010@lemmy.world
      23·
      9 months ago

      Erm, Haley is using this for her campaign:

      “Donald Trump wants to be the presumptive Republican nominee and we’re talking about $83 million in damages. We’re not talking about fixing the border. We’re not talking about tackling inflation,” Haley said in a post on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. “America can do better than Donald Trump and Joe Biden.”

      Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4432630-haley-trump-defamation-verdict-america-can-do-better/

      • RGB3x3@lemmy.worldEnglish
        29·
        9 months ago

        She’s not wrong that we can do better.

        She’s just wrong in assuming she is better.

        • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
          7·
          9 months ago

          I mean, I certainly don’t intended to vote for her over Biden, even considering my distaste for Biden, but I would say she is better than Trump from what I’ve seen. She seems more like “regular” republican evil primarily dangerous due to harmful policies, which is still plenty bad to be fair, but I don’t expect we’d be as likely to have her try a coup should she lose an election.

          • RGB3x3@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            9 months ago

            I’d take her over Trump for sure.

            But Biden over her, and like, fucking any other Democrat over Biden.

            But this is where we’re at, so I guess I’ll fall in line.

    • meco03211@lemmy.world
      12·
      9 months ago

      They don’t know about it. Legit know someone that doesn’t know all the legal issues trump is currently going through. Lots of “if he committed a crime why hasn’t he been charged?” It was a bit surreal. All the witch hunt talk has saturated the conversation so they don’t even know official proceedings are fully underway. They think because he hasn’t actually paid the damages to E Jean Carrol it means he wasn’t found “guilty” (because they don’t understand the nuance between civil and criminal).

    • Dkarma@lemmy.world
      7·
      9 months ago

      You think any news station Haley watches is even talking about this?

      Conservatives live in a bubble these days 100%.

      Any time they step outside of it the liberal “slant” of reality slaps them in the face.

      You know things like being forced to acknowledge and respect LGBTQ+ people…

  • TheJims@lemmy.world
    311·
    9 months ago

    God sent Trump… to rape women and harass them relentlessly while encouraging others to threaten their lives. God be praised. Praise be to the rapist messiah.

  • Yerbouti@lemmy.ml
    29·
    9 months ago

    I hope this goes on forever: he keeps defaming, she keeps sueing. Cause we all know this fat turd wont keep his mouth shut.

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
    369·
    9 months ago

    He’ll pay as much as Alex Jones has. Jack shit. Unless the court can forcibly remove the funds from their accounts or put them in prison until they pay, these fucks will do nothing.

    • kirklennon@kbin.social
      10·
      9 months ago

      Unless the court can forcibly remove the funds from their accounts

      Yes, the courts can and absolutely will, though not in this case, because he’s going to cough up the cash quickly (well as quickly as he can sell some stuff because there’s no way he has that much in liquid assets).

  • kingshrubb@lemmy.world
    23·
    9 months ago

    People in this thread saying he’s not going to pay. How can he just not pay if it’s a court order? Genuinely curious how that works. (Assuming the appeal is denied or whatever the final number he owes is).

    • MimicJar@lemmy.world
      431·
      9 months ago

      Someone can probably give a better answer, but it starts by him not paying.

      He will appeal the result and that could easily take another year or so, during which time he doesn’t pay.

      Then he will just not pay, that will take some time since you can’t complain to the courts that he didn’t pay after 1 day, it probably takes at least 90 days, but realistically probably closer to 120 or 150 days so that he is REALLY overdue.

      Then he is given a grace period to respond, that’s another 30 to 60 days. He’ll just say that he can’t. That goes back and forth for a while, at least 6 months total.

      Eventually the courts might put some sort of lien on Trump’s income except he doesn’t make money the traditional way, so it won’t pay out. That takes another 6 months or so.

      Then maybe they start going after assets. Assets aren’t just free, so that takes even more time.

      Also during all of this Trump moves assets around. He isn’t allowed to, but he’s already not allowed to and he has.

      At some point in this process an agreement for a settlement is brought up. Trump will offer pennies on the dollar, which no one will accept. Trump will use this to bide even more time.

      It’s neverending legal maneuvering. Just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit. Eventually someone gives up or dies. It takes tens of tens of years. At any point Trump can just start to pay a little bit of it, then stop after a few months and the process starts again.

      BTW if you don’t pay your bills the full fury comes down on you. No baby gloves.

      • baru@lemmy.world
        17·
        9 months ago

        He will appeal the result and that could easily take another year or so, during which time he doesn’t pay.

        To appeal he will have to put the amount ik escrow. Which negates a few of the statements you’ve made. Though completely agree that Trump usually goes for delay, delay, delay.

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        9 months ago

        In order to file an appeal, he has to pay immediately. The money doesn’t go to Carroll, it goes into an escrow account until she wins the appeal. But either way, Trump is out $83 million. No pay = no appeal.

        If he doesn’t appeal and doesn’t pay, then in 30 days Carroll’s lawyers will have access to his bank accounts and properties. At that point it won’t matter if he writes a check, they can simply take what they are entitled to directly from his bank. If there isn’t enough in his account, they can start an auction for his properties. The only thing Trump could do would be to declare bankruptcy, and this would only slow down the process not stop it.

        Trump can get away with not paying his contractors, but he can’t get away with not paying a court judgment. Of note, back when he owed Carroll $5 million, he paid on time.

        • thereisalamp@reddthat.com
          3·
          9 months ago

          Depends.

          He could get a bond to secure the appeal of he can find a bank who will lend to him. Which might be easier, with what looks like the impending sale of his New York properties

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
            51·
            9 months ago

            Yes, he could get a bond. But these bonds are generally 100% collateralized, because the bank is unlikely to get their money back. So that just means his property will be under lien during the appeal and auctioned off if he loses.

            • thereisalamp@reddthat.com
              4·
              9 months ago

              Generally. Trump has an uncanny ability to secure bank loans though. And, if New York requires him to sell his properties in the fraud case it wouldn’t surprise me if he was able to leverage the impending sale to secure the bond and then pull, well, a trump.

              Remember, the rules you and I play by are not in effect here.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
                41·
                9 months ago

                Well, he was able to secure loans back before it was revealed that he misrepresented the value of his assets. Now, perhaps it won’t be so easy.

              • Wirrvogel@feddit.deEnglish
                2·
                9 months ago

                Trump has an uncanny ability to secure bank loans though

                Not after 2020 anymore because:

                President Donald Trump’s lenders have forgiven around $287 million in debt that he didn’t pay back, and most of it was related to Chicago’s Trump Tower, according to a New York Times report

                I am sure Deutsche Bank is not going to give him another Cent and any other bank will go and count stairs, because he is lying about everything, even about how many floors his buildings have. The times it was easy for him are over.

                On top of the 83 million he has a huge amount to pay to his lawyers and since he is not accepting the outcome of the trial and he has another 14 or so going on… and taking money out of his election funds is now also harder to do and getting elected is more expensive because Koch is helping his opponent and Koch has a truly endless warchest.

                Every financial transaction he does is under a looking glas now, no more face value and trust, he is seen as the financial sector should have seen him in the past: A naked “king” that pretends to wear nice clothes.