• lobut@lemmy.caEnglish
    20·
    4 天前

    I feel this …

    I remember in Uni that I learned that the veggie instant noodles we were getting had pork but the chicken instant noodles we were buying were actually vegan-friendly.

    • AxExRx@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      4 天前

      Manufactured in a facility that may have employed a guy who bears a resemblance to mr peanut

  • Human@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    339·
    5 天前

    Im not a vegan but I imagine avoiding animal products is a herculean task. For instance, how do vegans account for things like bone meal, blood meal, feather meal, fish meal and even manure. Which are commonly used to fertilize crops?

    This is why I couldnt be vegan, cause I would over-consider everything I consume - it is impossible to be truly moral in this hell world. You have my respect for trying though.

    • Soulcreator@programming.devEnglish
      602·
      5 天前

      Respectfully, the problem with that line of thinking is it’s effectively based on a strawman. Veganism is not about perfectionism, nor is it about living like some monk in the woods who does not harm a single blade of grass. Veganism is about not viewing animals as commodities and reducing as much harm is reasonably possible.

      The problem with modern supply chains is that you can’t know every detail about the goods you are purchasing, so vegans make decisions based on what they know, it’s common for vegans to accidentally purchase a product with animal products. So you just go oops and try better next time. It’s not really as complicated as you are making out to be in your head.

      But to directly answer your question how do you avoid food that have been grown with things like feather meal and manure? The answer is simple but a lot of people aren’t going to like it. You avoid buying organic, and if possible you support local farmers which grow in a way which aligns with your values. And if you can, start a garden and grow some of your own food.

      • Human@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        24·
        5 天前

        So it is more harm reduction than systematic change? Completely reasonable.

        I didnt mean to imply this is somehow not enough - Im just a ponderer and wanted to know if there was some general consensus on the issue because the whole endeavor appears impossible in the modern world (we have little power over where our food comes from or how it is produced), something the meme seemed to allude to.

        Thanks for your insight.

      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        1·
        4 天前

        But if you avoid buying organic, then you’re supporting agricultural practices that harm local ecosystems, pollinators, waterways and aquatic life, bird populations, etc…

        So which is worse, honestly? You’re right that perfectionism isn’t possible, but it’s entirely possible to become overwhelmed with the constant triage one must do to reduce one’s impact as much as possible.

          • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            1·
            4 天前

            Can you offer more context than that? I’m not sure what the reference is. Which one is that?

            Between organic or non-organic produce, I’m not aware of either one involving infanticide.

              • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                2·
                4 天前

                I think that’s a false dichotomy, because someone can be vegan and only eat organic. It’s not mutually exclusive, and the vast majority of people are probably neither.

                If you mean that organic produce isn’t vegan, then I’d say you’re taking the ideological purity test a little too far. If you really want to reduce your harm to 0, then the only way to do that is to be like the Jain Sallekhanas who vow to eat nothing for the rest of their lives.

                My point was that even non-organic agricultural practices harm ecosystems and wildlife, so avoiding organic foods as a vegan is pointless.

    • jol@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      463·
      5 天前

      Vegans don’t. We can’t know what is not told. Vegan isn’t about being a perfectionist. It’s about avoiding harm as much as possible. There’s nothing herculean about not eating a bag of chips because there’s milk powder in it, it’s just very frustrating when all the chips in the supermarket contain milk and you really wanted some chips.

      “I can’t be perfect so I won’t try at all” is a lame ass argument.

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.netEnglish
      13·
      4 天前

      It works pretty much the same way that all of our values do. From the big bundle of things we care about, we derive a bunch of heuristics that help us to make decisions in life, and this greatly simplifies our choices. For instance, I value being considered authentic and trustworthy, so in general, I follow the rule of “do not lie”.

      However, these heuristics inevitably fail when confronted with the complexity of the real world, so we end up having to adjust on the fly, sometimes prioritising one value over another; I might find myself in a situation where my general policy of honesty is in tension with my policy of “don’t be an asshole”, and I may decide that in this instance, lying feels morally acceptable (or even necessary).

      In the context of veganism, an example of this kind of negotiation might be if a vegan mistakenly buys something containing animal products. If sustainability is a significant component of their veganism, then they might prefer to eat the food rather than waste it. Someone else might choose differently, depending on their underlying values. Sometimes even the same person with the same values might choose differently, depending on their circumstances (someone who is ill and exhausted might be more likely to eat something non-vegan, for example)

      I agree that “it’s impossible to be truly moral in this hell world”, but I imagine you still try to live by your moral values? If you were to picture yourself saying the most vicious things you could possibly muster to a dear friend in a deliberate attempt to hurt them, that probably feels bad to imagine, right? And yet, it’s inevitable that we will, at some point, do or say something to hurt the people we care about, despite our best efforts to avoid that. We can never be perfect, in anything we do. What matters is the intention, combined with a genuine effort to live by our values.

      For me, the most important part of living in a moral manner is regularly reflecting on whether my actions are aligning with my values. I tried to go vegetarian a year or so back, but unfortunately, my life is too hectic for that to be a viable option for me right now — I already struggle with building healthy eating habits, and adding additional restrictions on top of that led to me failing in my basic duty to my own wellbeing. I had to step back and re-evaluate my priorities, which led to me deciding that whilst going fully veggie is still a long term goal, for now, I’m just going to focus on reducing the amount of meat products I eat.

      I feel a bit uncomfortable to have to make that compromise, but that’s sort of the point, I reckon. Having to walk the tightrope between values that are in tension with each other is our opportunity to show our moral mettle. It’s ultimately a personal choice, so there aren’t really any right or wrong answers (because we’re the ones grading our own tests, so to speak). We’ve just got to be mindful about it, and try not to beat ourselves up so much that we end up making it harder to make choices that feel right.

    • x00z@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      4 天前

      a herculean task

      It isn’t. It’s a process and people try their best. Just because there’s a lot of hurdles doesn’t mean you shouldn’t even be trying.

    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      9·
      5 天前

      Being vegan just means you are constantly working on causing less harm in whatever way you can. Its a slow learning process and it changes over time. I’ve been vegan for 3 or 4 years now and I still have shoes with leather in them because I can’t afford to replace them until they wear out. Probably 50% of my meals are from Taco Bell.

      We all just try to do our best with what we have.

    • unit327@lemmy.zipEnglish
      2·
      4 天前

      I consider any food with entirely vegan listed ingredients as vegan. If there is milk or meat in the ingredients then the responsibility lies with me.

      If it was processed using bone meal, or fertilized with animal products etc without my knowledge, the ethical responsibility for that falls on the producer not the consumer. It is possible for them to make it without.

    • Dr. Moose@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      4 天前

      Yes thats a big problem in Vegan community. People tend to dig into deep and lose the practical cause of the mission. I’m more of an advocate for lazy veganism rather than absolutist because diminishing returns is just so high - you make a huge difference by just cutting out meat, milk and eggs and small stuff like cutting milk powder is just a nice minor extra.

  • BeMoreCareful@lemmy.worldEnglish
    10·
    5 天前

    I think I’m like ninety something percent there. I’ve not been a meat fan for years, and generally prefer veggies anyway. I’ve recently given up cheese, which was really about the only dairy left. I’ve also been on a let’s try to avoid ultra processed foods.

    My only real hang up is food people give me, or restaurants.

    I’m not sure I can wear the vegan badge. I am interested in advice or good resources for your basic bastard daily diet staples, or any gotchas to look out for.

    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      5 天前

      You don’t need to self identify as vegan or call yourself vegan. You’re already doing more than most people, and that’s great.

    • Zorcron@piefed.zipEnglish
      3·
      5 天前

      I think if someone gives you the food, there’s no problem with eating it, especially if you let them know that you prefer food vegan food. I think it’s just more practical than potentially wasting food that has already been purchased and prepared.

      The incentive (money) to continue producing meat has already been given to the industry, so unless you can give the food to someone who would already be eating meat, the waste is pointless.

      Restaurants can definitely be difficult, though I feel like most places I go have vegetarian options if not completely vegan, but I live in a large, fairly progressive city.

        • ricecake@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          12·
          4 天前

          Animal protein works better as a binder in most cases. It keeps the seasoning from falling off as fast.

          • deathbird@mander.xyzEnglish
            1·
            3 天前

            And yet all other flavored peanuts and salted peanuts combined seem to indicate that you can get by without it.

            It’s just absurd.

            • ricecake@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1·
              3 天前

              I mean, it can be absurd and also why they do it. Plantars don’t add extra oil to theirs, so they need more binder. They’re not doing it for no reason at all or to specifically spite those who don’t eat animal products.