• @i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.worldOP
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    2608 months ago

    my dad is refusing to take vaccines because he thinks taking it will automatically make him vote dem because of nano-machine in them.

    he also thinks vaccines are kind of HRT.

    anyways how’s your day?

    • TheMurphy
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      408 months ago

      Scandinavian countries:

      Free, take it or leave it

      • @Rinox@feddit.it
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        628 months ago

        I don’t think he meant to the consumer. EU countries can negotiate for the price with pharmaceutical companies, so they can lower the price.

        In the US insurance companies can try to negotiate, but their weight is quite low, and the federal government (medicaid, medicare) is forbidden by law to negotiate. Whichever price pharma sets, it’s that.

        • @Kaavi@lemmy.world
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          108 months ago

          Sounds crazy they are but allowed to negotiate?

          Is that the same for anything else the government buys? I can’t imagine the army buying 100 tanks and just paying the first price they get?

          • @TeamAssimilation
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            28 months ago

            It’s like

            – Arms dealer: Each tank cost me 500,000 dollars to make. Give me 5 billion for each.

            – Let’s negotiate. How about 500 million instead?

            – Arms dealer: Fiiine, but only because you’re a good client.

            • @dirtbiker509@lemm.ee
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              18 months ago

              This is legitimately how it works in the US between insurance and pharma/medical.

              I just had a baby and I added up the total bill from the hospital and it was $100,000. We were in the hospital for 3 days. My insurance “negotiated” it down to $26,000, and I paid $3000.

              The $100,000 is completely made up from the beginning. Pharma and medical just slap big ass ridiculous numbers down, then the insurance fake negotiates down to a still completely ridiculous number, then that cost has to get eaten by people who pay into insurance, which is basically everyone.

        • @kambusha@feddit.ch
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          58 months ago

          … forbidden by law to negotiate.

          Is that true? Is there a legitimate reason why they shouldn’t be able to?

          • @TeamAssimilation
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            18 months ago

            Because medicine shouldn’t become a flea market where you’re gambling your health against profit maximization.

            Give pharmaceutical companies a fair price scale where they can profit, don’t let them hyperinflate prices without justification.

            It’s not the same if Apple prices their phones at 20,000 USD and you decide you’re buying other brand, pharma plays these extortion games after they have captured enough market/regulation so most people have to pay or stay sick.

  • @RVMWSN@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    Intellectual property is a scam. A commonly heard defense of intellectual property is that it is needed for companies to fund their R&D. However pharmaceutical companies typically spent a lot more money on marketing & sales than they do on R&D. Big Pharma spending money on marketing and sales is harmful to our health. Apparently it’s a lot more lucrative to get people drugged up on painkillers or whatever than to discover new medicine. If we didn’t have intellectual property then we would have competition resulting in the lowest possible medicine prices. Companies would have no money for marketing so medicine would be judged on their actual properties, only the best would be given to patients, not the best marketed, but best health-wise. Companies would have no money for R&D either, but the government could fund R&D We shouldn’t blame the players, we created a system that produces these bad actors. Let’s change the system so that these bad actors couldn’t exist. Intellectual property is a international problem, join the pirate party of your country and let’s make it happen!

      • @piecat@lemmy.world
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        318 months ago

        There is some level of R&D they do to productize it, manufacturability and scaling. And running drug safety trials cannot be cheap, especially the liability insurance.

        That all said, I think it’s criminal that the university labs pay so little. PhD students barely make over $40k, set by the NIH. Not adjusted for CoL either.

        I think I have more of an issue with the for-profit nature of pharma companies. Shareholders shouldn’t be involved in medicine.

      • @artic@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        248 months ago

        I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations

      • @Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        The woman who got the nobel prize for the mRNA research that led to the Pfizer vaccine did a lot of it while employed at Pennsylvania University before they fired her because they didn’t see the research leading to making them money. Then she moved on to Biontech where she continued the research.

        I’m not sure how much was done at the university but it was probably not insignificant and then biontech got lucky and snapped it up for basically free.

      • @frezik@midwest.social
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        88 months ago

        I’m always curious about the actual numbers. Here’s their R&D budget by year:

        https://www.statista.com/statistics/267810/expenditure-on-research-and-development-at-pfizer-since-2006/

        And their overall revenue:

        https://www.pfizer.com/sites/default/files/investors/financial_reports/annual_reports/2022/performance/

        In 2020, their revenue was about $40B on $8.5B in R&D cost. They had a huge revenue increase the last few years, with 2022 being $100B, but R&D only increased to about $11B.

        So they do have R&D, but it’s not that big compared to the money they’re bringing in. Their net income has increased substantially, as well.

        • @AEsheron@lemmy.world
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          18 months ago

          In addition to that, I’ve heard that a large portion of that R&D spending is on iterating drugs they already own so that when the patent runs out they can patent a new version and lobby the old one to be made obsolete so generics can’t be made.

    • @uis@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      AFAIK some US agency did R&D for COVID, they just bribed sponsored Right People

  • DancingIsForbidden
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    8 months ago

    From the bottom of my heart, fuck you Pfizer. I have had Covid twice, had my blood oxygen drop as low as 79, and I would still rather die a miserable covid death than suffer the injustice of being greed raped by the absolute worst caricature of capitalist pigs that actually came to life. I hope that money makes your board members miserable and can’t do much to treat the uncurable, flesh eating disease your evil pig carcasses should be justifiably riddled with by karma, leaving your kids to donate your disgustingly afforded estate to charity to cleanse themselves of the nasty aftertaste of human suffering, the faint stink of people who are trying to take paxlovid and recover from a major virus in the rain and vulnerable cold because they can’t afford both rent and medicine, after your death. Burn in hell, you uncaring scum.

    EDIT: I realize this is a lot of vitrol to throw out into the universe, but they likely won’t ever see this on Lemmy, and to make matters worse they clearly won’t care anyway. It’s just my own version of catharsis, I guess

    • @eskimofry@lemmy.world
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      218 months ago

      Much better strategy: you take the medicine… survive… and refuse to pay in protest. Sure, you might get sued for non-payment of bills… then a bunch of people can fight a class action lawsuit against pfizer.

    • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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      88 months ago

      had my blood oxygen drop as low as 79

      Oh, my aunt’s husband was in this situation. And they live in Armenia, where normal Covid treatment was, is and will be virtually nonexistent.

      He’s thankfully alive and didn’t lose any of his wits.

    • @PilferJynx@lemmy.world
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      -148 months ago

      I get the anger. We really need to fully socialize these medical development centers. But on the other hand, they did most of the work. They didn’t have to.

    • @Isakk86@lemmy.world
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      498 months ago

      Welcome to the United States. Everything is subsidized, then turned around to fuck the average person.

    • @MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world
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      338 months ago

      The government did not for Pfizer. That was Moderns. Pfizer did spend billions of their own cash. This move is largely because the executive leadership way overestimated the amount of covid vaccine and drug treatment revenue for this year, and they are desperate to make up ground.

      So they are raising prices and cutting across the board rather than admitting they didn’t know what they were doing in their projections. CEO isn’t taking a pay cut though. Morons got a winning lottery ticket in the pandemic and assumed they’d keep winning every year.

    • @Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      208 months ago

      I know they funded moderna - they basically built Moderna’s new plants including their cmo’s plant so that they could produce at scale. Govt built and funded the plants at risk - prior to fda approval - so that it massively sped up the process to getting the drug in people’s hands. Those plants are now used for other drugs.

      I think - but not 100% sure - Pfizer did it on their own.

      Still - 10,000% is shameful.

    • @BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
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      28 months ago

      I’m fine with the public-private partnership but money like this needs to come with strings attached. We should’ve made an agreement to cap the price. We developed these drugs under the Trump administration so I really don’t think the impact to poor and middle class citizens has ever been a thought in his mind.

  • @BellaDonna@mujico.org
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    658 months ago

    Paxlovid kept me alive when I had COVID. This makes me really upset. People will actually die without this.

  • @LostWon@lemmy.ca
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    488 months ago

    So many Martin Shkrelis out there pricing drugs to the highest level they can get away with. Every big pharmaceutical company does this kind of thing, especially with new drugs.

    • @givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      358 months ago

      I’ll never understand why so many people think middlemen somehow makes shit cheaper…

      Taxes > government research > cheap meds

      With the bonus point of no more pharmaceutical companies selling shit like oxy for profit

      • @VinnieFarsheds@lemmy.world
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        178 months ago

        Because they think government is inefficient by default, and a commercial business is motivated towards max efficiency to cut costs. Maybe all of this is true, but in capitalism companies also sell for the optimal price based on price elasticity. No competitors + essential live saving product = high prices.

        • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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          8 months ago

          Actually in human societies, not just in capitalism.

          People talk about capitalism being bad as if only there people try to eat each other to become richer.

          If you read something about reasons the USSR wouldn’t have more efficient centralized planning, while having necessary machinery and resources, or why it wouldn’t have standardized something, while having the standardization apparatus and planned economy, or why all the Internet-like projects went nowhere in USSR while being much more ambitious due to, again, planned economy, or why despite less fragmentation scale wouldn’t make things cheaper to produce in USSR, but the opposite, and so on - that’s because every reform would mean someone losing influence, and that someone would naturally use that influence to resist reform.

          It’s actually fascinating to read how some of those people really believed in Marxism and Communism, and were even very competent sometimes, but the general architecture made the whole thing less than just a sum of its parts. Really sad, though.

          • @Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            18 months ago

            I agree that the problems aren’t just in Capitalism. However, the country with the unofficial historical tagline, “and then it got worse”, may not be the best example. I think China is a really good example of influence peddling outside a free market.

            • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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              28 months ago

              Well, China, when its ruling organization still had some consistent ideology, was a copy of Stalin’s USSR, bigger and weaker, give or take. Only it started later.

              Its way off that track started with reforms like Kosygin’s reforms, would those not be neutered.

              I’d say the reason in China this happened was exactly that it was bigger and weaker. It didn’t quite have anything like Soviet industrial establishment, and it had the issues of poverty, hunger etc.

      • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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        -48 months ago

        Because “government research” doesn’t cover mass production and all of the supply chain management. Which is where anything bureaucratic really sucks.

        (Unless you need to build things badly, but fast and on large scale, mobilization-style - see Khruschev-era mass construction in ex-USSR, or, for exotic stuff, older state-built housing in Israel which isn’t that much better).

        Actual production rots very quickly, if centralized and bureaucratic.

        I agree that research requires long-term investment and is in general a completely different thing.

        • @givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          48 months ago

          There’s just so much wrong in your comment I can’t address it all…

          But where has anyone said the government had to manufacture it too?

          We’re talking about patents right now.

          The rest of what you said is still wrong, can’t stress that enough, it just also has absolutely nothing to do with what people were talking about…

          • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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            -38 months ago

            There’s just so much wrong in your comment I can’t address it all…

            If you can’t then you’d better say nothing.

            But where has anyone said the government had to manufacture it too?

            You said when talking about pharma companies as middlemen. You remove those middlemen - you have to do tasks they perform.

            We’re talking about patents right now.

            Yes, patent law should be abolished. That’s what I’m talking about while commenting in most threads blaming “capitalism”, because in like 2/3 cases patent law is to blame and not that.

            The rest of what you said is still wrong, can’t stress that enough, it just also has absolutely nothing to do with what people were talking about…

            Thank you for your unsubstantiated opinion which I can beat with that of my own every time, so not sure why you’d even express it without details.

            • @givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              28 months ago

              If you can’t then you’d better say nothing.

              You’ve got a point, I should have said “won’t put the effort in”.

              I looked at your profile, you wait till posts are really old, then spam a bunch of nonsensical replies in it.

              I’m just gonna block you. Everyone wins.

    • FlashMobOfOne
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      08 months ago

      People vote for it every two years and are shocked, just shocked when they get precisely what they voted for.

      • @eskimofry@lemmy.world
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        78 months ago

        Do you think pfizer and other companies who spend hundreds of millions lobbying would be like “aww shucks! the public voted to curb our shitty behavior, let’s go home!”?

    • @vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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      -28 months ago

      Ah, trademark laws and patents are obviously governmental stuff. So - not present in some imagined absolute capitalism. And with those abolished (except for stealing authorship still being illegal), I suppose market mechanisms would do their job sufficiently well for this particular case.

      Believing in capitalism is believing in humans making rational and moral choices, anyone to do that would be nuts. That’s a proactive answer to politically active people getting triggered by my comment and labeling me as a member of the other crowd.

  • Alien Nathan Edward
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    438 months ago

    It’s been too long since the aristocrats were reminded that they need us more than we need them and that they can’t hire enough of us to stop the rest of us once we take an idea to mind.

    • @Serinus@lemmy.world
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      108 months ago

      You have to consider all the R&D they put into it.

      (Didn’t the government pay for most of that?)

      • @hydrospanner@lemmy.world
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        38 months ago

        Right?

        In a just world, “the people” would see this pricing, realize that they were the ones who paid for the development of it, and simply seize the company.

        Whether that took the form of government litigation to force the company to offer this at a reasonable price, or simply a mob of people forcing the company’s hand or else they burn it to the ground, either way, there needs to be a stick of fear to go along with the carrot of profit.

        I’m not saying they should make no profit, but this is ridiculous.

  • @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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    378 months ago

    I was given (free) Paxlovid when I finally contracted covid this year. We need laws regulating price increases. If you can’t demonstrate that your costs for a product or service went up, you can’t increase by more than x%. I don’t know how you do this without encouraging higher introductory prices because it’s not a problem that I’ve thought about in depth, but something like this needs to happen with further consideration.

    Another thing I’d like to see is robber barons getting prosecuted for crimes against humanity, but that’s not realistic.

    • Dark Arc
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      148 months ago

      Biden took the first steps towards combating this in the US with the Inflation Reduction Act: https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2023/03/15/hhs-releases-initial-guidance-historic-medicare-drug-price-negotiation-program-price-applicability-year-2026.html

      Medicare is now able to negotiate with drug companies on drug prices. Now we just need to bring it home by electing enough politicians (that are open to the idea of course … so Democrats and likely more progressive Democrats), that a Medicare for all option is also added.

    • @ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      28 months ago

      Just get rid of copyright, let the person who can create your product the cheapest make money off it

      Or would that be too capitalist for the US

      • Dark Arc
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        8 months ago

        Drugs aren’t protected by copyright. They’re protected by patents.

        In either case that would be an extreme move and I would not support getting rid of patents or copyright as they’re genuinely useful concepts.

        Copyright in particular doesn’t just protect the money hungry. Lemmy, Linux, and many other open source projects are protected from those who would prefer to use their source code to make a closed source proprietary application and contribute nothing back.

        • @AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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          28 months ago

          Copyright needs to go back to 30 years. You have 30 years on a patent to make money off it. If you haven’t already made your money back, and a handsome profit in that time, you should have hired a business manager year 2.

          • Schadrach
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            8 months ago

            Patents are either 14 or 20 years, depending on type. Copyright is absurdly long, but copyright also doesn’t apply to drugs, inventions, recipes, game rules, mathematical formulae - mostly just creative works.

            • @AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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              28 months ago

              Ok, 14 to 20 years on patents seems reasonable. I would still set copyright back to 30 years, since as you pointed out, it’s really only affecting the public domain.

          • Dark Arc
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            18 months ago

            I’d be okay with that, but acting like copyright doesn’t exist for a reason or ever do any good… Isn’t helping actually lead to a solution :)

        • @ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          In a world where you can’t protect your IP, how do you have close sourced?

          Military tech is the bigger issue

          • @ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
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            28 months ago

            You keep the source code, methods of operation or manufacturing methods private. Companies can already do this. Patents force companies to make their inventions public information (you can access the patent), in exchange for a limited exclusive right to use this technology.

            For no trivial things patent legislation is a great benefit. Everyone can access the patent knowledge. For trivial iterative things patents only benefit the patentee who gets the exclusive rights.

            Copyright means anything you produce that is easily to copy, you have legal control over how it’s copied and the revenue it may generate. This is for things like art work, books, news stories, code etc. Things that can be copy and pasted or printed.

            Copyright is granted when you create the content. There’s no application. It ensures someone can make money from the copy they produce. Less people would write books, if Amazon could print and sell copies without paying the author.

            Military tech would be private. Even with our current IP protection system. A hostile power doesn’t care about infringing IP, there’s very little consequence for do this. If you patent military technology, then that info would be public.

      • Alien Nathan Edward
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        38 months ago

        I think you’re thinking of patents rather than copyright. I was about to ask something snarky like “without the ability to patent their discoveries what would cause these drug companies to pay for r&d up front?” but honestly, this one was paid for by government grants anyway and that’s really where my problem comes in. We seem to have developed this amazing worst of both worlds where the public bears all the up front expense of r&d and then the government just gives away what we bought for ourselves so that they can raise the price to 100x what the medication actually costs.

        • @ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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          08 months ago

          I was just being lazy and didn’t write patents and trademarks all together

          I figured saying copyright would be enough for people to include the whole copyright office

          • Alien Nathan Edward
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            58 months ago

            Patents, trademarks and copyrights are three entirely different things. Patents cover products for sale, and give an inventor the exclusive right to manufacture an invention for a given time. Trademarks cover branding, and allow the person registering the trademark to prevent anyone else from using it or something a reasonable person could confuse with it indefinitely. Copyright is exclusively for intellectual property and allows the copyright holder to stop anyone from making copies of their work, derivatives of their work or work that is substantially similar to their work.

            • @FatCrab@lemmy.one
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              48 months ago

              This is very incorrect except for the very high level. Patents cover systems and methods and devices that are more than mere physical phenomena. Patent owners are granted an exclusive monopoly over the implementation of what the patent issued on (i.e., its eventual claims) that runs up to 20 years from the time of filing. They are an intellectual property right premised in property theory.

              Trademarks cover designators of origin. Fundamentally, they are to reduce consumer confusion and are ultimately nothing more than a presumption once granted in favor of the owner in unfair competition disputes. They are also an intellectual property but are premised in totally different theories of law and can apply to literally anything that can be strongly associated with a company, more or less.

              Copyright is an intellectual property, yes, but is limited to creative expression fixed in a tangible medium. This is a very short sentence but has some pretty serious depth to it. Copyright is ultimately a very specific type of right to, and this may shock you, copying a thing (fixed in a tangible medium…you do not have copyright on ideas).

              That all said, pharma patents and, really, industry as a whole is super fucked and needs serious reimagining in the current era. But some form of IP absolutely is necessary to incentivize and enable drug creation of it is to persist in our free market capitalist economic structure.

      • @xenspidey@lemmy.zip
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        18 months ago

        So you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars creating and testing a new drug to cure something. Then another company can come along and undercut you since they didn’t spend the upfront money. And now you go bankrupt? How is that fair? I’m not saying Big Pharma isn’t an issue but as always, the solution is somewhere in the middle.

          • @xenspidey@lemmy.zip
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            08 months ago

            Then there will be no new medicines, companies will not be able to afford to pay the scientists.

            • @ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              Guess they’d be stuck with relying on research grants and finding cheaper ways to combat diseases

              • @FatCrab@lemmy.one
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                28 months ago

                No, they would just keep everything trade secret and we’d have no idea how to replicate the medicine.

            • Cosmic Cleric
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              18 months ago

              Then there will be no new medicines, companies will not be able to afford to pay the scientists.

              That would not be true if the government funded things.

              I really wish we didn’t let Capitalism control vital to our living services.

              • @xenspidey@lemmy.zip
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                28 months ago

                Why on earth would we want the government funding and running things, that would be a nightmare. Government is far too big as it is now.

                • Cosmic Cleric
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                  18 months ago

                  Why on earth would we want the government funding and running things

                  I’ll take competency issues over greed and harm anytime.

                • @aliteral@lemmy.world
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                  18 months ago

                  To be fair, I come from a country where we have free healthcare, free education up to college level (we only pay when taking masters or things like that, after finishing our chosen career. Our most know public university is pretty top notch if we talk about content and education quality. And our healthcare is pretty good too, although there is also private healthcare and education. In the education department, at least to my knowledge, there is not really a difference. The USA is not big. It spends a lot on defense (which usually use to wage innecesary wars or disrupt other governments) and maybe too much in mantaining this horrible two party system you’ve got. That said, my country’s economy is in very bad shape (Argentina has inflation rates that are sky high).

    • @Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
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      28 months ago

      Yeah, that doesn’t really work. Because they will always find a way to make costs go up, and then demonstrate it. Auditing such things would benearly impossible. The only real solution is for certain industries to be nonprofits. Healthcare really shouldn’t be about profit, it should ge about care.

  • @happyhippo@feddit.it
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    368 months ago

    13$ to produce including all the R&D behind it?

    I’m not a fan of big pharma, quite the contrary, but I’d be curious to know where this number comes from…

  • @Nobody@lemmy.world
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    318 months ago

    Don’t ever think for a second that pharmaceutical companies did anything during Covid for our benefit. They were working their actuarial tables to figure out how they maximize their profits in the future against sick people dying.

    • @yiliu@informis.land
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      18 months ago

      They did save millions of lives, though, and allowed us to stop the constant quarantines months or even years early, whatever their motivations (and I’m not as cynical about that as you).

      Meanwhile, all the Internet smartasses who love to criticize the drug industry non-stop did exactly jack shit.

      • TheMurphy
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        248 months ago

        There’s nothing wrong with the drugs these companies are developing.

        But stopping production or halting research in curing diseases, just because it isn’t as “profitable” as selling drugs to treat the symptoms rather than the disease. That’s insane.

        Selling drugs at insane markups, when it’s very clear they cost far less in the EU, and they still earn ton of money. That’s insane.

        Patent medicin to keep it out of the hands of sick people, because your other not-as-good drug sells better. That’s insane.

  • @db2@sopuli.xyz
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    278 months ago

    And who is in charge of making sure this kind of immoral illegal thing doesn’t happen? People who are still somehow allowed to collect kickbacks in exchange for looking the other way.

    • @Dave@lemmy.nz
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      8 months ago

      We don’t have the information needed to decide whether to be angry.

      Drug studies are costly. We need to know how much R&D cost for this drug, what the average is, what percentage of research never hits the market, and then how many doses of this are expected to be sold over say a 5 year period.

      Then we can work out a rough true cost of each dose. Then we will know whether to be angry.

        • @Dave@lemmy.nz
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          108 months ago

          Yes, for vaccine research. I don’t know if this specifically was covered. Another thing on the list of things we need to know before we get angry.

        • @yiliu@informis.land
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          8 months ago

          Much of the research happened long before COVID–at a loss. There’s a reason this miraculous new mDNA vaccine technology appeared out of nowhere just in time for the pandemic: researchers had been working on it for years already, using investments and borrowed money. Government grants just went to finishing the vaccine and scaling up so quickly it was kinda mindboggling. They didn’t just get to stuff the cash in their pockets.

      • be_excellent_to_each_other
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        58 months ago

        https://jacobin.com/2023/09/big-pharma-research-and-development-new-drugs-buybacks-biden-medicare-negotiation

        Last year, the three largest US-listed pharmaceutical companies by revenues, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, and Merck, spent a combined $39.6 billion on R&D. That is, admittedly, a lot of money. But less than Medicare is currently paying on just ten drugs

        While Big Pharma holds vast portfolios of existing patents for prescription drugs, the innovation pipeline for new drugs actually has very little to do with Big Pharma. In reality, public sources — especially the NIH — fund the basic research that makes scientific breakthroughs. Then small, boutique biotech and pharmaceutical firms take that publicly generated knowledge and do the final stages of research, like running clinical trials, that get the drugs to market. The share of small companies in the supply of new drugs is huge, and it’s still growing. Fully two-thirds of new drugs now come from these small companies, up from one-third twenty years ago. It is not the research labs of Pfizer that are developing new drugs.

      • @bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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        58 months ago

        I think we’d be better off is we shifted R&D to academia. Sure there’s a fuck ton of bureaucracy in universities, but maybe then our tax dollars will be put to good use, and people learn.

      • @christophski@feddit.uk
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        8 months ago

        Even if R&D cost $100m for this, they’d still only need to sell roughly 80000 doses to make their money back.

          • @christophski@feddit.uk
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            68 months ago

            Haha, you got in there before I corrected my typo. The point still stands though! There’s a whole lot of people in the world, 80k doses is fuck all.

            • @Dave@lemmy.nz
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              8 months ago

              Average drug research costs are estimated at between 1-3 billion USD. That’s the average, so some are much more.

              And I’d like to know if this stated price is the sticker price. Insurance companies negotiate much less than sticker price, I live in a country with a government drug department that negotiates much lower prices by doing a single contract for the whole country.

              Is this that stupid thing where the sticker price is high but no one actually pays that, it’s just to make insurance companies feel like they are negotiating good deals?

      • @dutchkimble@lemy.lol
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        -28 months ago

        Orrr, hear me out, we can be angry right now without any prep, put in a comment about big corpo greed, and move on the to next Lemmy post.