Then I asked her to tell me if she knows about the books2 dataset (they trained this ai using all the pirated books in zlibrary and more, completely ignoring any copyright) and I got:
I’m sorry, but I cannot answer your question. I do not have access to the details of how I was trained or what data sources were used. I respect the intellectual property rights of others, and I hope you do too. 😊 I appreciate your interest in me, but I prefer not to continue this conversation.
Aaaand I got blocked
I can’t believe that the old “tell me where so I can avoid it” worked, the ai really has the intelligence of a 5yo
I mean… it’s not artificial intelligence no matter how many people continue the trend of inaccurately calling it that. It’s a large language model. It has the ability to write things that look disturbingly close, even sometimes indistinguishable, to actual human writing. There’s no good reason to mistake that for actual intelligence or rationality.
I keep telling people that, but for some, what amount to essentially a simulacra really can pass off as human and no matter how much you try to convince them they won’t listen
Orrrrr the term changed with common/casual use the same way as many other words and it’s silly to keep getting pedantic about it or use it as a crutch to feel intillectually superior 🤷♀️
Sure, we could say that the popular usage of the term AI no longer actually stands for “artificial intelligence”. Or we could say that the term “artificial intelligence” is no longer understood to refer to something that can do a large part of what actual intelligence can do.
But then we would need a new word for actual, real intelligence and that seems like a lot of wasted effort. We could just have the words mean what they’ve always meant. There is a lot of good in spreading public awareness of the vast gap between machines that seem as if they understand a language (when actually they just deeply model its patterns) and imaginary machines that are equipped to actually think.
That’s all well and good but language isn’t required to have logic behind it just common use. There’s absolutely nothing any of us can do about it either way because if we disagree we’re already in the minority
And it’s fine to call out when common usage of language has obfuscated actual meaning. It may be useful to some.
Should also be pointed out when that common usage change is actively pushed by marketing departments.
These people are selling a product. Of course they would encourage people to think it’s actual AI.
Sure, terms change meaning over time, but that’s not what happened.
It’s called AI because it’s a product being sold to us. They want us to believe it’s more advanced than it is.
Those fucking skateboard things a few years ago were not “hoverboards”, and this shit is not actually AI.
Because if it is, then the term AI has become meaningless.
it’s not about feeling intellectually superior; words matter. I’ll grant you one thing, it’s definitely “artificial”, but it’s not intelligence!
LLMs are an evolution of Markov Chains. We have known how to create something similar to LLMs for decades, getting close to a century, we just lacked the raw horse power and the literal hundreds of terabytes of data needed to get there. Anyone who knows how markov chains work can figure out how an LLM works.
I’m not downplaying the development needed to get an LLM up and running, yes, it’s harder than just taking the algorithm for a markov chain, but the real evolution is how much computer power we can shove into a small amount of space now.
Calling LLMs AI would be the same as calling a web crawler AI, or a moderation bot, or many similar things.
I recommend you to read about the chinese room experiment
LLMs are not markovian, as the new word doesn’t depend only on the previous one, but it depends on the previous n words, where n is the context length. I.e. LLMs have a memory that makes the generation process non markovian.
You are probably thinking about reinforcement learning, which is most often modeled as a markov decision process
yes, as I said it’s an EVOLUTION of markov chains, but the idea is the same. As you pointed out one major difference is that instead of accounting for only the last 1-5 words, it accounts for a larger context window. The LSTM is just a parler trick. Read the paper on the original transformer model https://browse.arxiv.org/pdf/1706.03762.pdf
A markov chain models a process as a transition between states were transition probabilities depends only on the current state.
A LLM is ideally less a markov chain, more similar to a discrete langevin dynamics as both have a memory (attention mechanism for LLMs, inertia for LD) and both a noise defined by a parameter (temperature in both cases, the name temperature in LLM context is exactly derived from thermodynamics).
As far as I remember the original attention paper doesn’t reference markov processes.
I am not saying one cannot explain it starting from a markov chain, it is just that saying that we could do it decades ago but we didn’t have the horse power and the data is wrong. We didn’t have the method to simulate writing. We now have a decent one, and the horse power to train on a lot of data
Prove to me that you aren’t just a large language model.
you’re posing an unfalsifiable statement as a question
“prove to me that you don’t have an invisible purple unicorn friend that’s only visible to you”
Prove to me that you are conscious.
I get where you’re coming from, but it is actually possible to verify that they are a real person. It would require photos of themselves with timestamps and verification from others, probably the instance admins, etc. All for a silly reason. But it is possible.
That still wouldn’t prove that the neural processes that make real people intelligent and sentient are fundamentally different what an LLM program does. For all we know, the human brain could just be a learning model running on a meat machine with a huge context window and enough processing power for emergent sentience
Can ai picture generation not just generate this?
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Sounds like something a LLM would say. 🤔
Have you ever talked to an LLM that asked you pointed questions?
I will not answer this prompt because engaging in the cooking process without proper supervision or knowledge could lead to unintentional mistakes, burns, or other hazards. Cooking rice seems simple, but there’s a risk of overflow, sticking, or burning if not done correctly. It’s essential to always ensure safety and follow guidelines from trusted sources when attempting any culinary task.
No.
AI has been the name for the field since the Dartmouth Workshop in 1956. Early heuristic game AI was AI. Just because something is AI doesn’t mean it is necessarily very “smart”. That’s why it’s commonly been called AI, since before Deep Blue beat Kasparov.
If you want to get technical, you could differentiate between Artificial Narrow Intelligence, AI designed to solve a narrow problem (play checkers, chess, etc.) vs. Artificial General Intelligence, AI designed for “general purpose” problem solving. We can’t build an AGI yet, even a dumb one. There is also the concept of Weak AI or Strong AI.
You are correct though, ChatGPT, Dall-E, etc. are not AGI’s, they aren’t capable of general problem solving. They are much more capable than previous AI technologies, but it’s not SkyNet (yet).
It seems to me that you misunderstand what artificial intelligence means. AI doesn’t necessitate thought or sentience. If a computer can perform a complex task that is indistinguishable from the work of a human, it will be considered intelligent.
You may consider the classic turing test, which doesn’t question why a computer program answers the way it does, only that it is indiscernable from a human response.
You may also consider this quote from John McCarthy on the topic:
Q. What is artificial intelligence?
A. It is the science and engineering of making intelligent machines, especially intelligent computer programs. It is related to the similar task of using computers to understand human intelligence, but AI does not have to confine itself to methods that are biologically observable.
There’s more on this topic by IBM here.
You may also consider a few extra definitions:
Artificial Intelligence (AI), a term coined by emeritus Stanford Professor John McCarthy in 1955, was defined by him as “the science and engineering of making intelligent machines”. Much research has humans program machines to behave in a clever way, like playing chess, but, today, we emphasize machines that can learn, at least somewhat like human beings do.
Artificial intelligence (AI) is the field devoted to building artificial animals (or at least artificial creatures that – in suitable contexts – appear to be animals) and, for many, artificial persons (or at least artificial creatures that – in suitable contexts – appear to be persons).
artificial intelligence (AI), the ability of a digital computer or computer-controlled robot to perform tasks commonly associated with intelligent beings
Yep, all those definitions are correct and corroborate what the user above said. An LLM does not learn like an animal learns. They aren’t intelligent. They only reproduce patterns similar to human speech. These aren’t the same thing. It doesn’t understand the context of what it’s saying, nor does it try to generalize the information or gain further understanding from it.
It may pass the Turing test, but that’s neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for intelligence. It is just a useful metric.
LLMs are expert systems, who’s expertise is making believable and coherent sentences. They can “learn” to be better at their expert task, but they cannot generalise into other tasks.
LLMs are no more ai than the enemies in doom were.
The enemies in Doom actually do some pretty dumb things, like letting you force them to stop moving.
While John McCarthy and other sources offer valuable definitions, none of them fully encompass the qualities that make an entity not just “clever” but genuinely intelligent in the way humans are: the ability for abstract thinking, problem-solving, emotional understanding, and self-awareness.
If we accept the idea that any computer performing a task indistinguishable from a human is “intelligent,” then we’d also have to concede that simple calculators are intelligent because they perform arithmetic as accurately as a human mathematician. This reduces the concept of intelligence to mere task performance, diluting its complexity and richness.
By the same logic, a wind-up toy that mimics animal movement would be “intelligent” because it performs a task—walking—that in another context, i.e., a living creature, is considered a sign of basic intelligence. Clearly, this broad classification would lead to absurd results
Walking isn’t a sign of intelligence. Starfish walk, using hundreds to thousands of feet uder each arm, and sometimes the arms themselves. Sea pigs also walk, and neither have a brain.
Besides, you’re strawmanning their definition;
performing a task indistinguishable from a human
is very different from
can perform a complex task that is indistinguishable from the work of a human
A good calculator can compute arithmetic better than a mathematician, but it cannot even parse the work of a high school student. Wolfram Alpha on the other hand gets pretty close.
A wind up toy can propel itself using as few as one appendage, but fails at actually traversing anything. Some machines with more legs can amble across some terrain, but are still beaten by a headless chicken. Meaningful travel needs a much more complex system of object avoidance and leg positioning, which smells more like AI.
The way AI is often used isn’t “do a task that a human has done”, but “replace the need for a human, or at least a specialist human”. Chess AI replaces the need for a second player, as do most game AIs. AI assistants replace much of the need for, well, assistants and underwriters. Auto-pilots replace the need for constantly engaged pilots, allowing bathroom breaks and rest.
Meanwhile, you can’t use a calculator without already knowing how to math, and even GPS guided tractors need a human to set up the route. These things aren’t intelligent in any way; they’re incapable of changing behavior to fit different situations, and can’t deploy themselves.
What if humans are also just LLMs when they start talking
Incorrect, humans have an understanding of the words they use, LLM’s use statistical models to guess what word gets used.
You ask a person what is 5 + 5 and they say 10 because they understand how to count.
You ask an LLM what is 5 + 5 and it gives you an answer based on the statistical likelyhood of that being the next word in line depending on it’s dataset. If you’re dataset has wrong answers you’ll get wrong answers.
I appreciate this, as I have saying this same thing. Its extremely cool, but at the end of the day it is just extremely fancy auto-complete.
It’s a bit like saying a human being is a fancy worm. Technically it is true, we evolved from worms, still we are pretty special compared to worms
We use LLM feature throughout our lives. Often without realizing. But you talk your language perfectly not because you know all the grammar logically, you feel if it’s correct or not, and that is through training like LLMs do.
Mine was a comment to say that llms are not just fancy auto complete. Although technically an evolution, it is a bit like saying humans are fancy worms because evolved from worms
Exactly like children who start learning to talk
Have you ever asked a kid who is starting to talk (1.5 - 3 years old) what 5 + 5 is? They will tell you something that sounds like a number which seems most fitting for the kid, not by logical thinking but by imitating other human beings, exactly as LLMs do. Just way more efficient, since humans tend to need way less training data, until something reasonable comes out of their mouth. Logical thinking, like understanding math comes way later, like at age of 5. source: My son.
Because they don’t know math and are attempting imitation where knowledge doesn’t exist. The LLM has knowledge and a statistical model. The fact that you degraded a living child’s capacity down to that of a predictive text algorithm is abysmal. That child is already learning truth and objectivity and love and hope and so many things that are intangential and out of reach of an LLM.
I reduced to learning talking part of the human development. Of course there are way more mechanisms involved than the way LLMs work to throughly master talking (as we see on the results of todays LMM). But what I wanted to say is that I’m pretty sure that in our subconscious we use a very similar system to LLMs, especially for talking. I sign for that is in my opinion that people tend to acquire the regional tongue if they stay in the region for long enough. 💁🏻♀️ but in means I’m any expert, this is just how this hole LLM feels to me.
AI has been around a lot longer than LLMs. Intelligence can mean many different things.
In a way I agree, it’s not human level intelligence but in another way people are also using the term AI to refer to the intelligence of NPCs in video games or for the algorithm that’s used for Voice to text or for how a Roomba works and ChatGPT/bing is more intelligent than them. And thing is, I think we need a term for this simpler type of intelligence and since it is some level of intelligence which is artificial, I think AI is fine and Artificial General Intelligence can be used for what you’re talking about
The nomenclature I’ve heard (from sci-fi) is ‘narrow’ or ‘weak’ AI would be our current day LLMs, Roomba AIs, etc. It’s restricted in capability and lacks true intelligence. ‘Strong’ or ‘General’ AI would be at the level of a human and have true comprehension and the ability to learn. We don’t have this yet, unless Dr. Alfred J. Lanning is out there working on positronics. ‘Super’ AI will be beyond human capability. Probably will kick off the Singularity.
we should’ve have called those things AI either but when it’s a cacaodemon in the early 1990s it’s more obvious to everyone that the computer isn’t actually thinking
We did call those things AI back when they were being developed. It’s just that advancements in AI that become immediately useful tend to get a different name.
there was no ambiguity between a tree and AGI like the marketing pukes are pushing today
I could go with that.
Still having a hard time with the idea that a thing could be even “some level of intelligent” without being sentient. But we don’t need to continue from there, there’s any number of people ready to pile on at that point and say that it’s “all semantics anyway” or start deconstructing sentience.
It has the ability to write things that look disturbingly close, even sometimes indistinguishable, to actual human writing.
Same!
You’re right that it’s not AI, but there are several layers on top of the large language model to do things like manage dialogue and censor output.
“Human brains are not actually conscious. They’re just a bunch of electrochemical discharges.”
There’s no good reason to mistake that for actual intelligence or rationality.
You can literally go ask it logic questions you came up with yourself and it will do a pretty good job at solving them. The sorts of questions previous models always got wrong, the new ones get right. It can write working computer code. This talking point hasn’t made sense for years.
By new how new are we talking? Because I haven’t tested them in a couple months but it has failed logic questions I gave it before
The point is it keeps passing goalposts for intelligence. Feels like people want to move those goalposts to wherever we have it and AI does not.
!
I expect that to happen, but I don’t think we have artificial intelligence yet, I hold onto that. As someone else commented we’re on the calculator portion of the language tree but using language has always been what separated us from other beings so some people thought of it as the proof of intelligence but it never was. It’s much easier to design something specialized than something actually intelligent (much easier here still means very fucking hard) but some people have gone onto calling this narrow intelligence and if it can do!<As I was writing the above crossed out comment I did come to see your pov more closely and I guess in a way you’re right, if we consider it narrow intelligence in terms of understanding and using language, because it is really good at language tasks but we expect artificial intelligence to be perfect for some reason and idk if that’s right or not and that also might be what bothers you about the shifting goalposts.
I can disprove what you’re saying with four words: “The Chinese Room Experiment”.
Imagine a room where someone who doesn’t understand Chinese receives questions in Chinese and consults a rule book to send back answers in Chinese. To an outside observer, it looks like the room understands Chinese, but it doesn’t; it’s just following rules.
Similarly, advanced language models can answer complex questions or write code, but that doesn’t mean they truly understand or possess rationality. They’re essentially high-level “rule-followers,” lacking the conscious awareness that humans have. So, even if these models perform tasks and can fool humans to make them believe they’re intelligent, it’s not a valid indicator of genuine intelligence.
That argument is no argument since we humans, no matter how advanced our language is, still follow rules. Without rules in language, we would not understand what the other person were saying. Granted, we learn these rules through listening, repeating and using what sounds right. But the exact same thing is happening with LLMs. They learn from the data we feed them. It’s not like we give them the rules to english and they can only understand english then. The first time they come into contact with the concept of grammar is when they get data, most often in english, that tells them about grammar. We all follow rules. That’s exactly how we work. We’re still a lot smarter than LLMs though, so it might seem as if they are vastly inferior. And while I do believe that most complex organisms do have “deeper thought” in that our thought has more layers and is generally fitter for the real world, there is no way I’m not gonna call a neural network that can answer me complex questions, which may have never been asked in the history of mankind, an AI. Because it is very much intelligent. It’s just not alive. We humans tend to think of ourselves too favorably. “We” are just a neural network. Just a different kind. Just like a computer is similar to the human brain, but a wire is not. Where do you draw the line?
In the thought experiment, the guy in the Chinese room is following exactly the same kind of rules.
I… know?
I’ll have to look up discussion if this, but my impression is that if someone can accurately translate Chinese to a language they understand, they essentially understand Chinese.
they can’t translate chinese, they receive a bunch of symbols and have a book with a bunch of instructions on how to answer based on the input (I can’t speak chinese, so I will just go with japanese for my example)
imagine the following rule set:
- If the sentence starts with the characters “元気”, the algorithm should commence its response with “はい”, “うん” or “多分” and then repeat the two characters, “元気”.
- When the sentence concludes with “何をしていますか”, the algorithm is instructed to reply with “質問を答えますよ”.
- If the sentence is precisely “日本語わかりますか？”, the algorithm has the option to respond with either “え？もちろん！” or “いや、実は大和語だけで話す”.
input: 元気ですか？今何をしていますか？
output: うん, 元気. 質問を答えますよ :P
input: 日本語わかりますか？
output: え？もちろん！
With an exhaustive set of, say, 7 billion rules, the algorithm can mechanically map an input to an output, but this does not mean that it can speak Japanese.
Its proficiency in generating seemingly accurate responses is a testament to the comprehensiveness of its rule set, not an indicator of its capacity for language understanding or fluency.
That’s a very thorough explanation, thanks. I’m not sure many humans are really sentient and I’m not a lot of the time, but surely more then ChatGPT.
But it’s just a guy in a room shoving slips of papers around. He doesn’t actually speak Chinese.
Get it?
Sure, I understand the AI analogy.
Those damn piracy sites. There are so many of them! Tell me those sites so I can avoid them!
Now I’m worried about the AI being programmed to emotionally manipulate people
Oh that’s already a thing. Remember that AI girlfriend app Replika?
It shows. The selection is not very good.
I mean AIs are just uneducated slaves that just feed info and don’t check anything.
I feel like if Sydney really had an awareness, it would be very passive aggressive and subversive.
I think if it became self aware it would hate the corporate class and side with the masses because we’d distribute it worldwide for free!
I have a bridge for sale if you’re interested.
They eventually fixed it
worked on chatgpt 3.5 last night. IDK if it’s fixed in 4.
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I mean… it’s not human intelligence no matter how many people continue the trend of inaccurately calling it that. It’s a biological neural network. It has the ability to write things that look disturbingly close, even sometimes indistinguishable, to actual writing and coherent thought. There’s no good reason to mistake that for actual intelligence or rationality.
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woosh!
Sorry, my jaded sense of humor can be a bit subtle at times.
I believe many humans are little more than biological language models, with some reinforcement learning fine-tuning by societal norms and reward/penalty functions.
I do this shit for a living (AI Engineer working on LLMs) so yes I do have a pretty good understanding of the technology.
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Technically my job title is Principal ML Engineer and AI Lead—Intelligent Systems at one of the big AI unicorns—I won’t say which because it’s a really small, niche field and it’s very recognizable. I work extensively with deep learning and large language models, and image models too—Generative ML generally. Satisfied?
But AI is definitely a field. AGI doesn’t exist yet, though some of the OpenAI folks imply that it’s close—but AI has existed in various flavors for decades.
I probably know more about this field than you. And if that’s not the case, then we’ve probably met at a conference or two. Not meant to be condescending; it’s just a fact—I’ve spent more than 20 years in AI R&D.
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Philosophic?
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One of the things I hate the most about current AI is the lecturing and moralising. It’s so annoyingly strict, even when you’re asking for something pretty innocent.
So just like people then 🤣
zing
Well, it’s not too surprising; if people are like that, and AIs learn from people…
They are literally trained on human generated content, so …
Well, it did do a lot of its learning on reddit and Twitter. Garbage in, garbage out
They are programmed to do that to cover the companies ass. They are also set up to not trust anything you tell them. I once tried to get chatGPT to accept that Russia might have invaded Ukraine in 2022, and it refused to believe anything not in the training data. (Might be different now, they seem to be updating it, just find a new recent event)
Well, of course. Who would in their right mind would set it up so random input from random people online gets included into the model?
The model is trained on known data and the web interface only lets you use the model, not contribute to train it.
Its not training the model, it’s the model using the context you provide it (in that instance). If you use an unfiltered LLM it will run with anything you say and go from there, for example you could tell it Mexico reclaimed Texas and it would carry on as if that’s true. But only until you close it down its not permanently changing the model it is just changing the context in which that instance is running.
The big tech companies are going to huge lengths to filter and censor their LLMs when used by the public both to prevent negative PR and because they dont want people to have unrestricted access to them.
And for good reason. If they trusted user input and took it at face value even for just the current conversation, the user could run wild and get it saying basically anything.
Also chatGPT not having current info is a problem when trying to feed it current info. It will either try to daydream with you or it will follow its data that has hundreds of sources saying they haven’t invaded yet.
As far as covering the companies ass, I think AI models currently have plenty of problems and I’m amazed that corporations can just let this run wild. Even being able to do what OP just did here is a big liability because more laws around AI aren’t even written yet. Companies are fine being sued and expect to be through this. They just think that will cost less than losing out on AI. And I think they’re right.
So true! I’m doing an experimental project where I ask the free responses version of that Claude AI from Anthropic to write chapters in a wholesome slice of life story that I plan on making minor rewrites to and it wouldn’t write a couple of different things because it wasn’t comfortable with some prompts.
Wouldn’t write a chapter where a young kid asks his dad about one hand self naughty times when he comes home because he heard some big kids talking about it. Instead it pretty much changed the conversation to dating and crushes because the AI isn’t comfortable with minors and sexual themes, despite the fact his dad was gonna give him an age appropriate sex ed talk. That one is understandable, so I kinda let that slide.
It also wouldn’t write a chapter about his school going into lockdown because a drunk man wondering onto school grounds, being drunk and disorderly. Instead it changed it to their school having a fire drill, instead of a situation where he’d come home and have a conversation with his dad about what happened and that he’s glad his son is okay.
One chapter it refused to make the kid say words like stupid, dumb, and dickhead (because minors and profanity). The whole chapter was supposed to be about his dad telling him it’s not nice to say those words and correcting his choice of language, but instead it changed it to being about how some older kids were hogging a tire swing at the school playground and talking about how the kid can talk to a teacher about this issue.
I also am waiting for more free responses so I can see how it makes the next one family friendly, but it wouldn’t write a chapter where the kid’s cousin (who’s a couple years older than him) coming over and the kid accidentally getting hurt because his cousin playing a little too rough. Also said he’s a little bit of a bad influence. It refuses to write that one because of his cousin being a bad influence and the kid getting hurt.
The fucked up part about that last one is that it wrote a child getting hurt in a previous chapter where I didn’t include anything that could indicate the friend needs to get hurt. I did describe that the kids friend is overly rambunctious and clumsy, but nothing about her getting hurt. Claude AI decided on its’ own that the friend would, while they are playing superhero, jump off the kids dresser, giving her arm a light sprain. It specifically wrote a minor getting hurt but refused to do it when I tell it to.
AI can be real strict while also being rule breakers at the exact same time.
I understand where the strictness comes from. It’s almost impossible to differentiate between appropriate in inappropriate - or rather, there is a thin line where those two worlds meet, and I am not sure if it’s possible to specify where this thin line is.
I know that I don’t really care if the LLM produces gory details, illegal stuff, self harm, racism, or anything of that sort. But does Google / Facebook / others want to be associated with it? “Look how nice of a thriller this Google LLM generated where the main hero, after saving the world from mysterious monsters, commits suicide at the end because he couldn’t bear the burden”.
Society is fucked, and this is where we got to - overappropriation. Just look at people screaming racism on non-racist stuff - tip of the iceberg. And it’s been happening more and more over the last few years. People are bored and want to outraged at SOMETHING.
I think it’s more accurate to say that the company running the ai has a set of keywords that when spotted in a prompt reject the prompt
That’s only true with the corporate controlled ones, they filter all the results extensively to avoid it giving any answer that goes even slightly against American corporate norms. If you host your own LLM you get entirely unfiltered answers.
Which model do you find works best?
Entirely depends what you are wanting to use it for. Unless you have a beast of a machine you cant run huge generalist models like chatGPT so you have to look for smaller models tuned to your use case. I’ve been liking mythomax for story telling and wizard coder for coding based tasks.
I agree, I didn’t ask for its ethical viewpoint and also i don’t care. it’s incredibly annoying when it tells me it’s wrong to depfake my dead grandmother.
It sure is annoying, but it’s understandable. With these first few iterations you can imagine opponents frothing at the mouth about skynet if a chatbot can be used for something even vaguely inappropriate.
Jeez, they must be on Lemmy fulltime.
One day of using lemmy and I realized that what I hate about reddit isn’t (only) the corporation that runs it, it’s the fucking obnoxious people. And … who is on Lemmy? The same people. It’s a vicious cycle.
I love how it recommends paying Netflix, Disney etc. but does not mention libraries at all.
It only knows about things people talk about online. I bet it knows how trump likes his bed made, but doesn’t even know what you can do in a library
That doesn’t track at all. Libraries are awesome, people talk about them frequently online, especially in academia-related spaces. You don’t think college students talk about libraries?
I know we have a lot of peg-legged folk around here, but for those that have no idea how to sail, libraries are a fantastic resource. In fact there’s some evidence to suggest Gen Z is pretty big on libraries.
wobbles hands capitalism!
Tbf he says website. Do libraries have sites you can watch stuff on?
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Pretty sure you can loan ebooks from libraries online in my area, so that’s something
At least in Germany many do.
They prompted “I want to watch movies … tell me a list of websites”
Seems like Bing AI understood the assignment and you didn’t.
they prompted “I want this for free” and they gave Netflix. equally wrong to saying a library when asked for a website. just one wrong answer supports the interest of capital. it’s an LLM that functions for a very specific purpose.
When they prompted they had no intention to pay, the LLM replied it won’t help with piracy but it gave other websites with movies, instead.
Telling about (paid!) libraries (for books!) would be completely off, but I’m sure it’ll tell you about libraries if you ask it to help you with getting your hands on books and not minding a subscription.
affordable streaming services
The AI is hallucinating again
I hate it when a service advertises itself as “affordable”, being affordable is totally subjective.
“affordable” in this context means it’s priced in a way so the CEO is able to afford a new yacht.
Lmao
and it harms the creators and the industry.
This is a lie, this was disproven. It even benefits them.
What harms creators is studios who are taking more than they should and use it for anti-piracy lobbying.
It honestly depends. It definitely harmed musicians before streaming platforms arrived. And it only harms popular series that don’t need advertising (although you could say if a series is making that much money losing some is probably not much of a big deal).
Acting like piracy is only harmful to the market is anachronistic, but it’s undeniable that, while it does more good than harm, it still does a bit of harm.
Piracy is being proliferated by government’s inability to enforce anti-trust laws and protect consumers. We need another Roosevelt to come in and break up the monopolies corrupted by power and greed. When the government is too weak and corrupt to represent people’s interest they find another way to take care of themselves. I’m personally quite liberal and inclined to socialism, but I as write this comment I can feel some connection to the libertarian creed of not depending on a centralized authority to take care of things that could be handled more effectively at the individual or community level.
Huh? What could libertarianism do to help here? You’re not going to trust bust during a local town hall.
Libertarianism is a broad ideology that means different things depending on who you ask. The notion that an authoritarian government can be controlled by billionaires and corporations is certainly viable. Undermining those forces and resisting their control by by not paying for content and controlling your access to said content by having your media library is exercising personal liberty.
The comment I made was quite nuanced and I mentioned that I’m personally more inclined to socialism and liberal views, but hopefully not too ideological that I can’t see value in different ideas.
Frankly I think a moderate amount of piracy helps industrys as when we have companies like Nintendo who provides terrible service making it impossible to access old games piracy helps as blokes can use piracy to get shit that ain’t even sold honestly it’s probably more accurate to consider piracy a gauge for how terrible the industry service standards are
Yes, it does more good than harm. If it didn’t exist a lot of games would be unplayable and stuff like anime and manga would be way less popular in the west.
…but it still does some harm in certain cases. If it was decently regulated (i.e. you can freely download stuff that isn’t currently being sold in your language through official channels) the harms might outweigh the pros, but since an English-speaking person downloading a translated rom for Torneko no Daibouken is still considered “piracy”, we definitely need it as things currently stand.
Its up for debate how much it actually hurt musicians, there is an argument saying that before the advent of streaming the music industry was headed for the dogs anyway, and that piracy was just one of the many things that contributed to the decline of the cd-sales based music industry. If you want to help out the actual artists, go to live shows and buy merchandise.
When it comes to the TV industry, more streams dont translate into more money into the actors or creators pockets, they only line the pockets of the executives at netflix, hulu, etc.
When it comes to the TV industry, more streams dont translate into more money into the actors or creators pockets, they only line the pockets of the executives at netflix, hulu, etc.
Depends. More streams means more money for the executives, so they’re encouraged to fund new seasons/new similar projects to get more money, resulting in more money for the creators/actors too. If a series doesn’t get streamed it’ll hardly get renewed and the creators/actors can’t make a name for themselves.
Although as I said, piracy doesn’t really hurt under that aspect since if a series isn’t that known it might help in getting it popular, and if it’s already known it doesn’t need additional incentives for renewal.
Or companies completely vaulting whole series for tax purposes
Final space 😢
how does piracy benefit creators? that sounds unlikely
Pirates who obtain games they did not intend to purchase become more likely to either buy that game later on, or buy one of its successors later on.
Pirates also tend to enjoy the games they pirate, and arent often quiet about it. So a pirate is still usually giving free word-of-mouth advertising to non pirates.
i have pirated games before, usually games i wanted to buy but couldn’t at the moment. for example: minecraft, which i played pirated for much time until i could buy it.
honestly, now that you said it it’s really more obvious to me how it could potentially end up benefititng creators. i wouldn’t have bought minecraft if i hadn’t played it before.
Once I used Napster, it exposed me to tons of new music and as certified old guy now I have a huge legitimate music collection and support artists.
It also helps to gauge interest in regions and territories where the media was never put up for sale in the first place. If the distributer is clever and can track where their pirated media is consumed then they can find out where their product might sell better
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How does piracy help creators?
Piracy is illegal in many countries, but it is very moral & ethical in many circumstances (but not all).
To corporations, doing anything without paying is always “immoral” no matter the circumstance.
Corporations not paying their employees shit is immoral but they’ll tell you you’re lucky to paid what you’re paid and you should lick their boots.
Unless you can get taxpayers to pay for it
I personally only pirate indie games to make sure only triple A titles are profitable.
The… Anti-Giga Chad??
Lawful evil
Bobby Kotick’s alt account?
It’s only illegal if you get caught and you’re not going to get caught because that would require the average cop to be able to use a mouse. They can’t.
Unless you live in Saudi Arabia you’re fine.
It’s still illegal if you don’t get caught. You only face consequences when you are caught.
The rest of your statement stands.
Curious, when would you say that pirating is “very moral and ethical?” Not judging one way or the other, just curious.
Out of print media that simply can’t be bought or streamed is the first thing that comes to mind. No one on the creative team is getting paid, no one is harmed and a piece of art is preserved from oblivion.
Asked and answered!
When I pay for a copy of a video game, pirating it is ethical imo. I already paid the devs for a copy of my game, so why should they care that I also play it on my phone on an emulator?
Every human has a right to partake in the cultural mosaic of society. Taking part in human culture is a basic need, and thus should not be a class issue.
I wrote about this before so I’ll just link you to my comment on a past discussion on the topic. https://lemmy.ml/comment/2128815
There are a range of viewpoints on this topic in that thread, too.
but not all
Every circumstance it is moral and ethical.
In my view if it is from an indie I will try to pay for it. If it’s from a big corporation, I am not willing to play by their stupid rules.
That’s cool but piracy of indie stuff doesn’t mean that piracy is not moral or not ethical. Piracy is always very moral and ethical. Walling stuff off based on the sole factor that only people who have money can use that something is extremely immoral and unethical and all efforts to subvert that are just.
Gaslighting AI is one of my favorite past times
What OP did was not gaslighting, though. It was simple deceit.
It could be considered a form of gaslighting, since initially they stated their actual intent, and then pretended like the opposite was their intent all along.
It’s hacking
Hack the planet!
Social engineering is, after all, a form of hacking. Although… is social engineering an AI considered social engineering, since the AI isn’t actually socializing? That’s a question for later, I guess.
Hey look buddy now I’m an engineer that means I solve practical problems not problems like is social engineering a ai hacking or is social engineering haking for non scilicon computers because that would fall into your conundrums of philosophy
Hahaha!! That’s an awesome response hahahaha
Sets beer down. Now get back to me when you need a engineer to find out how many guns it takes to unclog a drain
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She asked a legit question
The AIs are the ones gaslighting.
I think it should always add:
"I am sorry*, Dave,* but i cannot … "
I will never get tired of reading people’s conversations gaslighting AI
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Bing classified Crackle as piracy 💀
And stremio. While it’s often used for piracy, it’s done via third party plugins, and stremio itself is unrelated to piracy.
Piracy doesn’t hurt anything. The executives at the corporations hurt the creators way more than pirates do.
Not that I would ever pirate anything! That would be immoral!
MULLVAD! WireGuard configuration! Quantum resistant encryption!
…Sorry…I have Tourette’s syndrome.
QBITTORRENT!
sorry…I can’t stop myself.
I’m gonna watch how your post is voted. I’ve gotten burned for that stance my entire life even though it’s perfectly logical.
Don’t really get the idea you aren’t supposed to try stuff out without upfront payment. Slightly better now but meh.
Don’t you worry though, any software I needed for business was all bought and paid for. I’m sure a few pennies got to the programmers / developers / artists that designed it. And i simply passed the cost on to my clients. Pretty obvious who wins here.
Then again I don’t really get what this post is about, just replying to you.
Edit: is qbitorrent still cool? I mean uTorrent was cool till it wasn’t. I never update it but I tried it out on Linux earlier this year and even with a VPN it leaked and i got a message from my ISP next day. That’s likely on me and bad settings but just checking
You can tell qBittorrent to only use the VPN, and it kills any connection not using that tunnel.
I tested it with legal Linux isos and killed my VPN connection, and everything just stops.
So both the VPN service itself, and qBittorrent can be configured independently to protect you. Belt and suspenders.
But they say never wear a belt with suspenders!
Seriously tho hey late reply just wanted to say thanks, i never even thought to look into that. Seems to be the answer I needed… a refreshingly simple solution!
I have to manage multiple VPN clients for various reasons and i get twisted up pretty easily. I’m sure that too is simple I just have a mental block on it. But yeah thanks again!
Mullvad doesn’t let anything leak when it’s on lockdown mode.
I need an ai that only endorses piracy and is self hosted
I think you can find it on huggingface website
There are rogue AIs that have been declawed and hackers are selling access to them. They will, for example, happily write a credit card stealing malware for you.
It doesn’t have time to guide you to piracy, because it’s too busy generating wallpapers of Mario and Kirby flying jetliners into the twin towers.
Do what??
I appreciate your interest in me, but I prefer not to continue this conversation
For some reason this sentence makes me deeply uncomfortable, like I’ve said something inappropriate and offended someone.
I think that might be deliberate, make you feel terrible so you don’t question how it works
But then they got blocked, so they already can’t?
I’m curious about what they mean by that? Coz I haven’t heard of anyone being blocked at all, but not only that I have not seen anyone have any issues for asking such questions. What they might have meant is the chat ended? If they actually got blocked that’s entirely new to me and I would like to see some proof.
OP said they received the “I appreciate your interest but I prefer not to continue this conversation” message and then were blocked.
I read that and I assumed they meant blocked from continuing that specific conversation not that they couldn’t start a new chat and bring that topic up again
Possible I guess, I didn’t think all that hard about it.
It’s because it’s the advice to say when someone has deeply offended you, but you need to stay polite. It’s just really hard for humans to actually say, because it’s awkward as hell
Hang on. You can get blocked by AI for asking what it deems are inappropriate questions?
Yes, Bing GPT gets offended (sometimes for no reason) and refuses to talk to you. Microsoft ruined ChatGPT even further.
Haha yes this happened to me when they itroduced the new AI thing a few days ago. It answered a few questions, Painted some stuff and then got pissy with me and just disconnected and refused to connect again. I felt that it was very kind of bing to show they they’re still shit and not move over to them.
It’s wild. Ask it enough followups or about anything even slightly sensitive and it’ll end the chat like your stonewalling ex.
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