- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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Texas power prices soared 20,000% Wednesday evening amid another brutal heat wave.
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Spot electricity prices topped $5,000 per megawatt-hour, up more than 200 times from Wednesday morning.
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The state’s grid operator issued its second-highest energy emergency, then later said conditions returned to normal.
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Hey little buddy, how’s the independent grid working out for you?
Jesus Christ.
Texas: Big government is evil!
Also Texas: Big government, the climate change weve been denying is boiling us please save our freedom grid
I want a book that’s just passive aggressive notes signed by Jesus
"Bet it all on the Steelers huh? Bet your wife is going to be real happy about that.
-Jesus Christ"
"Oh you sure showed that group of children who’s boss yes sir.
-Jesus Christ"
Pray for Elon to help the poor
As a lib, I feel so owned.
I’m glad I live in Washington state with our cheap renewable energy.
You are kind of owned, since these red states fucking up just means that more of your tax money will go to saving these idiots from themselves through federal aid
Never should have let the southern states back in like we did.
We should have hanged every last confederate.
It’s not too late though.
This is definitely not an unhinged comment. Not at all.
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Texas actually does better in the renewable energy front than you may expect.
A quarter of the state’s energy is produced through wind and solar. The biggest bottleneck preventing more wind adoption is the capacity of transmission lines up and the lack of energy storage.
The advantage of natural gas is that it can be dry up pretty much anywhere and isn’t dependent on weather.
The biggest problem Texas has right now regarding energy (and housing costs, and inflation, and municipal planning, and traffic, etc) is its extremely rapid population growth.
Yes, the heat wave is historic and ERCOT is awful, but even in perfect weather the grid is being stressed from the sheer number of people and businesses moving here
Don’t forget natural gas lines can freeze. Remember Ted Cruz going to Cancun? Pepperidge farm remembers.
While a lot of shitty things happened regarding ERCOT and that freeze (and ESPECIALLY the lack of response to prevent the next 2 freeze emergencies), Snovid was a perfect storm. And again a lot of the issues were from transmission problems when lines iced over and tress took out transmission lines.
We’re lucky the 2023 freeze was as short as it was, because it’s impact on the grid was almost as severe even though it was shorter and not nearly as cold. It was an ice event instead of snow, and had a much larger impact on trees and therefore transmission lines. Some people were without power for 3-4 times as long as with the 2021 storm despite it being a much milder event.
As an engineer, critical infrastructure should very much be designed with redundancy and failsafes to prevent failure from any reasonable risk. Cold weather impacting natural gas supply is reasonable risk that can have a catastrophic impact on people’s ability to heat their homes and it’s mind blowing how those failures have happened more than once in recent years. Utilities should be held to much higher standards and immediate action taken after failures to prevent the same from happening again.
Completely agree. But Snovid was a case of multiple system failures. It wasn’t just gas lines freezing,. It was increased demand, frozen equipment, inoperable windmills and solar panels, trees on transmission lines, road inaccessibility for repair crews, and informational gaps.
Ummmm they use cardboard for their new construction sheathing, new construction r value code is 30-39 compared to 49-60 for Washington.
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Texas has plenty of power. Their problem is the delivery network. Their prices surge because power can’t be delivered to everybody, not because there isn’t enough for everybody.
I need you to explain this further? The price goes up because the demand on the grid goes up, and as the price goes up, typically additional generation comes online to take advantage of higher rates. I’m not saying it’s a good system by any means, but I don’t understand what you mean saying “power can’t be delivered to everybody”
Transmission lines have maximums and the Texas power grid is a shambles.
Here’s a recent article that explains a little more: https://www.kut.org/energy-environment/2023-09-08/ercot-texas-electric-grid-congestion-at-risk-energy-emergency
I’m abreast of this specific grid situation, and there’re absolutely improvements that need to be made, and also no, it’s not “a shambles.” Yes, there was a bottleneck this time, but also everyone’s power stayed on just fine
But Texas also has plenty of space and sunlight for other renewables.
They lead the nation, iirc. Not just in the space for it, but for the actual amount that’s been implemented.
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apperently not on peoples roofs though.
Especually for ACs having your own solar panels is perfect. The demand and supply are always highest at the same time.
The problem hasn’t been during the day. The supply and demand has a lag (sun comes out and its still cool and sun goes down and its still hot). The hottest part of the day has been about 6pm and then solar power starts declining before power use. That’s been when the shortages have been.
You ever been east of the mountains? It’s going to be over 90 where my parents are today. It was over 100 for quite a bit this summer.
If you had the same amount of heat, you’d have more sunlight hours and thus better conditions for solar power. If you had more wind, wind power etc.
There’s no scenario anywhere in the world where the entire energy consumption and more can’t be supplied via renewable sources. All that’s missing is the political will to go against the fossil fuel industry.
How do I upvote you twice?
Welcome to Cascadia, land of trees, salmon, and hydroelectric dams.
and while its not renewable and there’s a big question on how effectively its stored, nuclear power is sustainable.
Heard a piece of NPR about how our green grid is actually having a lot of trouble keeping up because climate change is fucking up our rainfall, and hence our hydro electric. Even if you do it right, you end up paying for the greed of everyone else.
I’m glad I live in Washington state with our cheap renewable energy.
Texas has more renewable energy production than you do. In Q1 of 2022 Washington State generated 25 Million Megawatt hours of renewal energy and Texas generated 34.
Texas is also the second biggest state and 3 times larger by land mass than Washington state.
Are you idiots Great Again yet?
hey the rest of the american grids are fine. Texas didn’t want to follow certain governemnt regulation so they made their own grid.
With blackouts. And hookers.
With blackouts. And lobbysts.
C/unexpectedfuturama
c/CommunitiesAsHashtags
I was talking directly to the women hating, book banning, brown people fearing , maga-loving, selfish ignorant racists that vote in Texas.
Love it.
If only there was some kind of energy source that worked best during intense sunlight.
Solar is only half the battle though. There can often be a severe electricity shortage in the evening when solar power shuts off but temperates are still high. This issue is greatest in the late summer and fall because it’s still very hot but the sun sets earlier.
There are solutions to this issue but they are fairly early in development and sometimes expensive. California is struggling with this issue currently. We’ve installed a huge amount of battery power over the last few years which has prevented several catastrophes so far but heat continues to get more severe, increasing energy needs as we are trying to shut down the state’s remaining gas peaker plants.
I fail to see the problem. You cool your house down while the sun is up and even if it is still hot outside, then your house gets a bit warmer, so what? Still it is comfy inside and in the night you can open everything up to get some fresh wind in.
This is what I do, but there are still problems. Some people are at work and don’t have programmable thermostats. If you have a poorly insulated house, even if you do pre-cool in the middle of the day, by the time late evening rolls around, it can be getting quite hot again. And during extreme heat waves, the overnight temperature can remain very high. Last night I went to open my windows around 10 PM but it was still hotter outside than in my house. And yesterday wasn’t even particularly hot where I live, the high was only in the low 90’s.
okay, i didnt think it this bad. i thought it should cool down quite quickly at night because half of the state is a dessert, but i now realize most of the people life in the subtropical part.
Even in the desert it can be an issue. Phoenix had an overnight low of 97 this summer. Soon that may be commonplace.
Part of the problem is poor planning by utilities but our systems are also being tested by weather that is truly unprecedented in human history. Our grid, and our strategies for keeping cool were developed in a different climate than the one we now inhabit.
This is solar’s half of the battle, high energy demand during bright sunlight.
The Texas grid issues have been right after solar drops off (evening, not day) because Texas does rely on solar for a small, but necessary, part of it energy. The second half is energy storage, and Texas lacks that which is why its been having many close calls this summer and has resorted to paying cryptominers to not mine to narrowly scrape by after solar power drops off.
Texas has 3000Mw of battery storage with 10000Mw on the way.
Texas can use up to 100GW of power and was basically always over 60GW during that time of day this summer. The 3GW was used on a few days to bridge the gap, but wasn’t quite enough on its own on other days. 10GW more would have covered this summer though. Hopefully next summer isn’t worse though (seems like expectations is next year is supposed to be hotter). Population also continues to grow and electrification continues. And NG makes up the bulk of the power still. Hopefully wind and solar installations grow significantly in the next year as well.
Not to mention Diablo Canyon. Last I heard, we were working on an expansion at Long Valley Geothermal station, but it won’t be ready before DCNR goes offline.
I think they’re going to postpone its closure which will be controversial but necessary to avoid burning more natural gas.
It’s 2018 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. It’s 2020 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. It’s 2023 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. In the time we’ve been kicking the can down the road, we could have built a newer, better, safer nuclear power plant to replace DCNR. Instead, we keep pushing DCNR way past its intended service life, and we’re going to be shocked, shocked I tell you, when something finally cocks up.
recently learned that if we went with nuclear decades ago this whole problem wouldn’t even exist. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/nuclear-power-isnt-perfect-is-it-good-enough/
Aaahhh, the free market economy at work without limits, without government planning, regulations, or interference.
Government regulations bad! It means we can’t squeeze our customers, we can’t fuck up on an hourly basis, we can’t be dicks!
And in before the commies start… No. Bad dog! Get out with your “we need to become Communist hippie communes!” comments, please
We need to put reasonable rules and limits to a capitalist system. Regulate big companies, regulate infrastructure, tax the rich, use the money for social platforms
I’m with the commies on this one. We need to nationalize utilities like energy distribution. No reason to have a profit seeking entity in charge of necessities like electricity.
In sane parts of the US, utility companies are technically private entities, but they’re related so much they pretty much operate like government agencies.
The big difference being a drive toward profit. Nationalizing energy production and distribution would be a slam dunk for everyone except the people at the top of these energy companies and their shareholders.
Probably. But the people who cry about socialism would be technically correct for once if that happened.
Take a look at how the Georgia Public Service Commission is regulating the finances of the new nuclear reactors (Plant Vogtle 3 and 4) and then try to keep a straight face and tell me it’s working.
In all fairness, Texas has an incredibly weird, idealistic, view of the value of market forces and their government utterly fails in its job as a result.
It’s not just power lines. It’s everything. They distort their market on ideological lines and then assume that’s the best case.
Too be fair, it is the best case if you’re one of the rich assholes who owns everything and just wants to squeeze the poors.
Sure but that is not the role of government lol
Historically speaking?
Says who?
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They have an excess of energy (too much sun) but the grid is close to collapsing (too much cooling). Maybe install more solar power?
The problem is ideology. The Texas power grid is the end state of neo-liberalism taken to the extreme.
The belief that natural monopolies should be privately controlled with minimum regulations has lead to this. A power grid run for maximum short term profit with minimum investment. The grids poorly maintained, because that doesn’t make money. The grid is unfit, because implementing designs that cover the extremes is expensive. The price is excessive because the state is ideologically unwilling to intervene.
Many Texas leaders (and other Taxans) see any energy source that’s not oil and gas based as “part of the radical liberal agenda.”
Pay 1000$ electrical bill to own the libs!
Well yeah, being a manly man means being inconsiderate and destructive to the environment.
Oh, you care about nature? You want to be a steward of the Earth? Sounds gay. And gay men get beat to death and sent to hell.
Sure they do, then they get run the fuck over by the big money Capitalists who are building it anyway. Texas is #1 in renewable energy production for a reason.
Many Texas leaders (and other Taxans) see any energy source that’s not oil and gas based as “part of the radical liberal agenda.”
Solar energy is also decentralized, so people/villages can have their own source of energy and the profits won’t go to one monopoly and that can’t happen, because free market - yes - but not actual free like this.
They do, but capitalism is gonna win this one. Solar is cheap and sunshine is plentiful so it is still getting built. ERCOT is a disaster, most of it on purpose but the legislation that set it up.
Would probably be a good idea to hook up to the neighboring power grids too for emergencies… like every day in the summer is turning in to.
I work in Solar Construction and Texas is our fastest growing market right now.
Quick question, how do I get solar installed (in Texas) without getting scammed. Every company I have talked too has felt like dealing with the slimmest used car salesman.
I think you run into this problem anywhere in the country. We were recommended our solar company by our neighbor, who had a good experience. They finally finished our job, and mechanically, they did a fine job. But their interpersonal interactions were mostly bad, and my wife would vehemently not recommend them to anyone else. Seems like it’s going to be a crapshoot. Good luck
Good thing they got rid of all those pesky regulations or the poors would be using the power.
As a former Texan this breaks my heart. Alot of innocent and less well off people will suffer due to entrenched corruption.
I moved away because of this exact kind of shit.
Where’d u go? We came up to Portland.
I moved to the PNW as well. I hate the bureaucracy, and miss the barbecue, but they can have the rest. The bureaucracy you have to tolerate because it helps maintain the balance of divided people making the best choices. Much better path than down south where the road to hell is paved with red intentions.
Idk about the bureaucracy being useful, maybe it just needs tuning. But rn Portland (or maybe it’s the county) has $10million set aside for homeless services/projects and no plan for any of it.
Exactly, they move slowly, but it’s better than the southern plan.
Philadelphia, it’s paradise.
Oh, again?
Texas is trying to attract crypto miners, I hear.
…
giggle
Crypto miners say “ok you need power so we will stop our servers” and Texas gov gives them millions of $ to thank them.
Wasn’t the whole point in investing in oil in Texas to keep the energy prices low?
How is that working out for em?
Actually, pretty well 99.9% of the time. And if a few people die here or there in a freeze or heatwave, well they shoulda use some of those electricity savings on a generator or something.
^ How the conservatives in Texas feel about the situation
Some of you may die…
…but that’s a price I’m willing to pay?
EMERGENCY!
YOU ARE IN TEXAS!
oh my God!
People will soon be living in Texas no power year around when they throttle you and charge you thousands for power every month of the year because either A) ITsSS TWOooh HAaAWwTT or B) TtThEEee GGRiiIdD IIsSSnnTT Winterized. What a joke
If Texas is anything like Mississippi, you’re not allowed to live without electricity. You’ll be evicted, AKA homeless…
Texas power prices soared 20,000% Wednesday evening amid another brutal heat wave.
Makes sense. I’m told everything’s bigger in Texas.
Meanwhile in reality:
Texas is 1st in the nation in renewables (thanks Obama).
3000Mw battery storage averted this emergency, and there’s a ton more of that on the way (thanks Biden).
Look, this is super misleading information and I keep seeing it repeated. They’re first in the nation in total electricity generation from renewable sources, but that’s mainly because of how big they are. If you look at what percentage of their consumption is from renewable sources, they’re not even in the top ten.
The reason Texas is #1 in renewables is actually Rick Perry, bless his heart. He pushed for a massive expansion of wind generation capacity back in the early 00s and was instrumental in building high voltage transmission lines between west Texas wind and the more eastern population centers. He would be drummed out of today’s Republican party
When wanting to eliminate the Dept of Education is too woke…
Oh he didn’t mean that, he just wanted to be president and thought that’s how he’d get there. He wasn’t the brightest bulb
Which is why he became Secretary of Energy under Trump. Also I think he was kicked off Dancing with the Stars in one of the early rounds. Certainly makes him qualified to occupy the same chair as Steven Chu.
Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma have the best onshore wind power potential. Pretty good solar too. And they’re tapping in to it.
