a drawing of a person wearing a balaclava and holding a gun with the text “all my homies hate tankies” :3

  • SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
    422·
    11 months ago

    Most communists/socialists arent tankies (even if .ml tries really hard to convince everyone otherwise) but identify with hammer and sickle too :(

    But fk tankies, I’m with you on that

  • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
    413·
    11 months ago

    Should I work with Marxist-Leninists?

    If you’re organising at work or around housing issues, the people you work with are not going to all have the same politics at you, and your opinions on the July 1918 uprising of Left Socialist Revolutionaries after their expulsion from the Bolshevik government are not relevant to that situation. Yes, really, no-one gives a shit. You’re relating to each other as workers in that situation, not as representatives of a political niche, at least we hope not.

    […]

    If there are real political and organisational disagreements, it’s better to be open about them than gloss over them, and retain some independence.

    • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      247·
      11 months ago

      tankie colloquially refers to communists who deluded themselves into thinking authoritarianism can breed anything other than opression and that to give power to the people, you first got to take it away from the people.

      its not impossible to work with tankies on low stake joined causes but with their usually hierarchical and authoritarian organising structures (that they even try to spread) they still make for shitty partners.

      their idelology is misguided and harmful. i hope they all eventually learn and become anarchists. power to the people

      • el_bhm@lemm.ee
        113·
        11 months ago

        tankie colloquially refers to communists who deluded themselves into thinking authoritarianism can breed anything other than opression and that to give power to the people, you first got to take it away from the people.

        That is probably the most on point description.

    • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zipEnglish
      176·
      11 months ago

      A former roommate of mine had a hysterical emotional breakdown, and spent the following 2 months convincing everyone we both knew that I was mentally unstable to the point of needing to be institutionalized…

      … because I laughed in his face when he described Hu Jintao being very publically arrested at a mass televised CCP conference… as ‘being put into witness protection due to a threat on his life’.

      …

      You see, the problem with Tankies is that they’re astoundingly insecure, extremely manipulative, and fully believe in any means justifying their ends.

      Tankie roommates: Not even once.

      • gravityowl@lemm.eeEnglish
        73·
        11 months ago

        While I do genuinely feel sorry that this roommate of yours behaved in such awful and shitty way, my point was about the larger communities as a whole. Especially now that there are openly fascist people in power in the US and in a lot of other countries, I believe it’s even more important to be united. Or at least, as I quoted before, know where the differences lie.

        That doesn’t mean being supportive of wrong behaviors and/or people of course. Being critical of wrongdoing is an essential skill. But in my opinion one can’t be as critical when generalizing about such large groups

        • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.zipEnglish
          123·
          11 months ago

          I’ll continue to trust Tankies as much as the historical record indicates Anarchists should.

          Which is 0, less than 0, some negative amount.

          If you know of any historical revolutionary movements involving a distinct and significant amount of Anarchists that did not include Tankies betraying and/or murdering all their Anarchist ‘allies’, please let me know.

          EDIT: Here, I can ‘read more theory, noob’ too

          https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam

    • el_bhm@lemm.ee
      117·
      11 months ago

      Tankies are fascists. You can argue all you want for pro-lgbt and anti-racist action. Community actions. This is individuals.

      What rises through the ranks is fascists. And they want those fascists. Because fascists promise an utopia at the end.

      And this is who fascists elect.

  • lemonSqueezy@lemm.eeEnglish
    406·
    11 months ago

    Ugh this type of bullshit infighting within leftist spaces is about as serious as debating your tabletop RPG actions, and sends regular people packing. None of this shit matters. Real people don’t care about it and they have no idea what a tankie is. Feds love this bullshit. We’re losing, we lost, the world is becoming a fascist hellscape but apparently somebody has time to make memes about fighting each other. It’s amazing how that always seems to happen, especially now when you’d think most people could feel unified?

    • spujb@lemmy.cafe
      207·
      11 months ago

      disagree i think it’s

      a) fun

      b) helpful to be aware of the stakes at play. authoritarianism has hurt many people and it does no justice to be quiet about that.

      c) something that doesn’t even happen that often anyway so like idc

    • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      167·
      11 months ago

      yknow what feds love? hierarchical organisations, where they just gotta assassinate or compromise the leader to make it fall appart or coopt the entire organisation.

      but real talk discussions like this are valuable for voicing real criticism against harmful “leftist” ideologies and through that developing our own views more wholistically. and this is important. you cant only criticise fascists, neo-liberals, and fudalists, or you might miss out on the underlying criticisms and will reproduce their flaws because of that. and while tankies might be able to do similar work as anarchists in the here and now, they are still flawed and this will only get worse, the more power they get. this discussion is important to any real person, who because of it wont fall for the lie of authoritarianism or might even escape it.

      and this world is turning fascist but tankies are cheering on half of them. you know what sends regular people packing? support for china, the soviet union, and north korea. authoritarianism takes the credibility away from libratory struggles.

      also its just good to vent frustrations sonetimes…

      • lemonSqueezy@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        9 months ago

        actually it is the exact opposite. Feds love decentralized organizing that is completely ineffectual. Why do you think anarchist thought is essentially entirely an american project that is never snubbed out? If you actually challenged power you’d be assassinated. See: long history of US agitators that were actually merc’d by the US govt as a direct result of them actually challenging power.

      • kaprap@leminal.spaceEnglish
        13·
        11 months ago

        Calling them something else is a stretch, all but their geopolitical beliefs are leftist

    • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
      3·
      11 months ago

      To fix everything people gotta stop being tribalist idiots. Lol!! Maybe try to get murdoch and Koch the memo

    • oortjunk@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      64·
      11 months ago

      apparently somebody has time to make memes

      A) to be fair, memes are the principal monetization strategy of the internet

      B) there is a factory somewhere that is mass producing injection-molded fake dog shit out of plastic and this post is the thing that gets your hackles up about an ineffectual expenditure of time, thought and human capital?

  • reallykindasorta@slrpnk.net
    314·
    11 months ago

    I don’t agree with the vision of an authoritarian state, even as a step towards something else, but my tankie friends, for example those in PSL, are doing a ton of good on the ground by organizing and funding busses to prison for the families of prisoners, helping support tenant unions, providing support for immigrants in the form of legal representation, continuously organizing against police injustices (especially in cases involving disabled, black, or queer people), and other issues that might arise in their locale. I respect the people continuously putting themselves and their resources on the line for others. I would be much quicker to lend disrespect to those that only talk and do nothing.

    • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      64·
      11 months ago

      ive been in action with tankies and they were a pain in the butt, making decisions that affect all of us hierarchically and not sharing info, just expecting us to do whatevever their leaders decide

      better than nothing maybe but i wish they were cooler

    • Comrade Spood@slrpnk.netEnglish
      1·
      10 months ago

      The chaos star comes from before Warhammer. It comes from the Elric of Malniboné books by Michael Moorcock (unfortunate last name lol). The symbol has been adopted by anarcho-nihilists, which is the context for this usage

      • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
        1·
        10 months ago

        His star is actually different.

        The Moorcock star is 8 outwards arrows with radial symmetry (not very chaotic to have symmetry but we’ll get to that)

        Games Workshop (whose early writers were largely anarchist and heavily inspired by Moorcock) added a circle to the symbol, with the arrows escaping the bounds (like in the anarchy A). They’re also often, but not always, asymmetrical. Also, sometimes it’s not! Sometimes it’s just Moorcock’s! Chaos, bitch! There’s specific meaning behind a lot of the differences but it’s not relevant.

        That’s the Games Workshop Chaos Star. Period. It even has similar arrowhead design to the arrow heads used directly on the figures.

        For reference, this is a particularly complicated Warhammer Chaos Star:

        Note in particular the lines on the outside of the circle, in between the main 8 arrows.

        Anarchists aren’t the only ones that use the star btw:

        Which is why I downvoted this shit, as it happens. Real anarchists aren’t ripping off corporate symbols to beef with Marxists in 2025.

        Not the smart ones, anyways. There’s plenty of black fascists running around, red fascists are going to have to take a number.

        That all said, I haven’t read a lot of Moorcock, compared to way too much Warhammer. If you’re saying they got their variations from Moorcock too I’ll believe you.

        • Comrade Spood@slrpnk.netEnglish
          1·
          10 months ago

          Anarcho-nihilists and insurrectionary anarchists are the ones typically using the symbol, and they don’t usually care if its the Moorcock one or the Games Workshop one. Won’t deny, yeah this one’s the Games Workshop version. But I also think its basically arguing semantics whether they’re using the Moorcock one, an anarcho-nihilist one, or a GW one. Whether its the GW one or not is sorta irrelevant (I was just trying to provide some history and context, won’t deny I missed the circle which does make it the GW version), as its clearly being used in an anarchist context. All I was saying was Moorcock is credited with the original, and Games Workshop were directly inspired by Moorcock and also used it. However I do not feel its fair to equate op or anyone that uses the symbol to fascists. Yes some use the chaos star but it is a very specific and niche version of it.

          I also don’t think its a good idea to just give up the symbol because a couple irrelevant basement dwelling fascists try to use a niche version of the chaos star. I’m tired of leftists just letting fascists take symbols away without a fight. I don’t see Marxists dropping the hammer and sickle cause NazBols use it.

          Lastly, anarchists are certainly beefing with tankies. And they are going to use their symbols to do it. Chaos star included because it is an anarchist symbol whether you agree with its use or not. I have it on my punk jacket, I am a very clear anarchist, and I very much have beef with tankies because I see them as fascists with a red coat of paint.

  • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
    104·
    11 months ago

    I’m deep left libertarian, borderline anarchist, but if I have to make a choice between auths- tankies or Nazis- I’ll take tankies every time.

  • SectoidLexi@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    5·
    11 months ago

    The meme is well designed, love the chaos star especially and love to see more balaclava girlies. And I can sympathize as I’ve certainly encountered very bizarre takes by terminally online internet leftists in favor of weird shit like being in favor of the Ukraine invasion or thinking the DPRK is some secret paradise.

    However, by and large I’ve gotten to the point where anytime I hear the term ‘tankie’ thrown around it feels thought terminating. I’ve been called a tankie for being opposed to the US invading North Korea, or for supporting indigenous land return. But here’s a bigger problem I’ve encountered: I volunteer every week at a local free store run by anarchists and I also have done organizing work with local ML parties. Anytime the local MLs want to get involved in the free store, or collaborating on any mutual aid projects the Anarchists have going on its cold shoulders all around “Oh no, those people are Tankies. We can’t trust them.” It’s gotten to the point where everything is separate and there’s no talking to each other. One time a Communist party member mentioned they knew someone who could do free glasses repair and thought it would be good for them to come to the free store, and when I brought it up folks just didn’t wanna hear it or criticized “the company I keep” as if that would taint them. It’s just disheartening because all these MLs locally are almost all LGBTQ, poor/working class, disabled, etc. Just like the Anarchists and want a lot of the same things. I really think anti-communist propaganda has created such an unnecessary divide in our organizing. I’m not asking folks to all just get along and agree, I want different orgs to have their autonomy and own ways of thought. I would just want people to focus their ire on people who ACTUALLY make life shit for us, especially here in the west, which is our own capitalist state and the capitalist class.

    Thank you for indulging me by reading my long silly comment.

  • yuri@pawb.social
    53·
    11 months ago

    i deffo hate some tankies, in the same way that i deffo hate some vegetarian/vegans when they actively chase people away for seemingly no reason. sometimes though i do feel like i see more blind hate for entire communities than actual worthwhile discussion.

    i guess the problem could really just come down to your definition of “tankie”. to some folks it’s a very specific kind of obvious troll, and to others it’s just anyone on an .ml instance.

    and not to turn it into a “lesser evil” discussion, but between .world and .ml, i definitely know which which meme community i’m hanging out in. i’ve yet to have a single bad interaction with anyone in .ml communities, but i also don’t talk politics in fucken marxist/leninist spaces either. YMMV hahahah

      • yuri@pawb.social
        3·
        11 months ago

        fair! but i do worry the term is at risk of being overused to the point of no longer having a cohesive meaning.