• frezik@midwest.social
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    3 days ago

    It’s easy to make a 100mpg car. All you need is to make it small, flimsy, no aircon, no heater, no stereo, no airbags, toss emissions standards out, pack you in like a snake going up a bear’s anus, and drive around at a steady 25 mph without any stops.

    • FuzzyDog@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Idk, Dutch micro cars are pretty comfortable. They’re quieter, safer for pedestrians, and environmentally friendly. Had a chance to use one last time I was in the Netherlands. The American mindset of “it has to be a giga-truck or it’s bad” really sucks.

      • tetris11@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I’m in love with the Citroen Ami

        I mean just look at this little guy. If I had ovaries, they’d be popping right now.

        • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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          2 days ago

          I saw someone driving a Microlino the other day. Daft little thing, but you can’t deny it turns heads. If only because people are saying “wtf is that?”

        • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          They’re cute but very niche. They’re very expensive for what they are, those weird plastic folding windows are not fully waterproof, and the ami generally inferior to a scooter in every way except safety kinda. It’s not like it can carry more than a large grocery bag anyway.

          Owning that car really tells a complete story: “I am a 16/17 yo suburbanite so I can’t get my license yet, daddy/mommy is tired of driving me to school, my wealthy parents won’t let me ride a moped because it’s too dangerous, and riding a bicycle or the bus isn’t even an option for someone of my social standing”.

          Unsurprisingly, it’s not been selling particularly well. Which is a good thing, because what cities need is more micromobility solutions not cars cosplaying as micromobility.

          • tetris11@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            I was leaning more on the “I am a 30/40 yo city worker who lives in a small village with no train station and poor bus service. I don’t have kids, but like weekend getaways with my partner and this car speaks to my meagre price range and eco sensibilities.”

            • boonhet@lemm.ee
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              3 days ago

              Are you American? Because here in Europe these are expensive and used cars are not.

              Here are used moped cars for sale in my country, cheapest first

              Here are used cars that require a drivers license

              You see these moped cars driven by exclusively four groups of people:

              1. Teenagers who can’t get a drivers license yet but whose parents have money to waste on shit like this

              2. Serial traffic offenders (usually DUI) whose license has been taken away and they can’t get a new one, either for a while, or ever

              3. Old people whose health is too bad to be allowed to drive a car

              4. People who just for some reason can’t pass the normal drivers education and exams.

              They’re pretty much just a legal loophole for most people.

              I am a 30/40 yo city worker who lives in a small village with no train station and poor bus service. I don’t have kids, but like weekend getaways with my partner

              Good luck driving to the city every day, or going on weekend getaways, at max 45 km/h. If you go over that, police will have your car inspected in case you’ve defeated the speed limiter. If you have, it’s illegal to drive it.

              I can see why you MIGHT think it’s a good idea, but what you’re really looking for in the scenario you imagined, is a nice tiny car that’s actually allowed to be used as a car. I.e: Allowed to go above 45 km/h, available used for a sensible price, etc. Toyota Yaris, Nissan Leaf if it has to be electric, etc. The Leaf isn’t even that tiny, but first gen ones are much cheaper than an Ami.

            • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              Then get a small car like a VW Up. It will be cheaper, will be more practical in literally every way, and will have a lot more range. It’s also not limited to 45 km/h, which you will quickly find is painful on the kinds of semi-rural roads that separate your hypothetical village from the city.

              With a 75 km announced range and no fast charging (!) your best bet for a weekend getaway is to use the Ami to get to the nearest train station. Hell, if you can’t charge at work it might even struggle to get you back home.

              The Ami is simply a terrible value proposition if it’s your only mode of transportation. And if it’s your secondary mode of transportation, then its carbon footprint skyrockets as all the lithium that makes up its battery will hardly be used over its lifetime.

              One can always make up a scenario where someone, somewhere, somehow has the exact situation to justify such a purchase, but it is very niche. What Citroen really tries to market it as is a “city car”, which is anything but a green concept but also the only way a 45 km/h car with 75 km of range actually makes sense.

          • doingthestuff@lemy.lol
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            3 days ago

            riding a s bicycle or the bus isnt even an option for someone of my social standing that even exists in my area.

            • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              If you’re in North America, I’m sorry but that’s just not relevant because North Americans decided the only transportation one is allowed to get is a car and the Ami doesn’t sell there because it’s not a car.

              If you’re in a North-American style suburb elsewhere in the world, then yeah I get it it sucks. But the Ami isn’t even a pragmatic solution there, because such suburbs tend to be surrounded with roads with 70+ kph speed limits which is much faster than the Ami can even go so you won’t be safe there either. If you can’t get a car and can’t ride a bike or use public transit, the only pragmatic solution is to not live in a car-dependent suburban hellscape.

              The Ami is designed for inner city driving where 45 km/h keeps up with the flow of traffic. But where you can comfortably drive an AMI at 45 km/h without holding up traffic, you can also ride a bicycle at 30 km/h, or walk, and there’s probably public transit unless you live in an unusually terrible city (and I say that as someone who lives in a well below-average city).

              • doingthestuff@lemy.lol
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                2 days ago

                I’m on the edge of a reasonably big US city. No bus lines, no sidewalks or bike lanes. Just a ditch on the side with lots of big trucks driving 80-90km/hr on curvy, deadly two-lane roads. It sounds rural but I live on the inside of the city’s “loop” highway.

                • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago

                  Yeah so my point stands, you need a car. Have you seen an Ami in person? It’s a glorified electric scooter. Think of the tiniest car you’ve ever seen in your life and make it 3x smaller. No way I’m driving that on a US road with trucks overtaking me at 90 km/h, and I say that as an habitual cyclist and motorcycle rider.

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Micromobility will never be a solution for places where it rains a lot or where it gets cold often. People need an enclosed cabin like this.

            • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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              3 days ago

              Uh, yeah, no. Copenhagen and Stockholm are cycling capitals. SE Asia literally gets a monsoon and everyone still rides a motorcycle.

              “It’s wet/cold outside” is nothing more than a paltry excuse. There’s a whole NJB video on the subject if you want.

              • bluewing@lemm.ee
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                2 days ago

                Or it more like “you gotta do what you gotta do.” If it’s all that’s accessible, then it’s really not the virtue you might think it is.

                • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago

                  Entirely orthogonal to the discussion. These countries are wealthy and do have lots of suburban and rural areas where families are likely to have one or multiple cars.

                  That doesn’t in any way contradict the fact that many people in Copenhagen and Stockholm cycle daily, regardless of the season. And in case you haven’t been: there’s regularly rain and/or snow.

                  I don’t understand where this idea comes from that spending 15 minutes outside when it’s barely freezing is some kind of superhuman feat. Like, bruh, it’s chilly, put on a coat and get over it.

        • FuzzyDog@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I got to see one at a Stellantis exhibition here in the US! Although they won’t be sold here, so IDK why they brought them to a US event. They’re such neat little cars.

      • frezik@midwest.social
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        3 days ago

        No, that’s pretty much what I mean. I’m having trouble finding references to the gas milage of the Canta, but Kei cars tend to max out around 60mpg, and the Canta is only a bit smaller. I also found plenty of posts from locals saying it’s loud, uncomfortable, and unsafe.

        The Peel P50 can get close to 100mpg, but that’s pushing what a person can even fit in. This sort of thing is pushing into “why not get a moped?” territory.

        • FuzzyDog@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          The original Honda Insight from 2001 got 68 highway, 60 city. And it had all the goodies you’d want in a “modern” car like airbags, aircon, heat, 2 relatively roomy seats, etc. Close to the Doodlebug’s best possible mpg with twice the passengers.

          Unfortunately, after 20 years of improvement in auto design, material science, etc, the new Honda Insight in 2022 actually has notably worse city /highway mpg from the original, because it’s so much bigger.

          I guess my point is all the innovation in the world won’t fix the fundamental problem that people want bigger and bigger cars?

          • A7thStone@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Auto manufacturers want bigger and bigger vehicles, and they’ve done an excellent job of convincing the masses that they aren’t safe without one, or a man, or they’ll look poor. Most people I’d wager if given the proper knowledge and experience wouldn’t want to drive a huge lumbering land whale, they’ve just been told their entire life that they do.

          • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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            2 days ago

            I guess my point is all the innovation in the world won’t fix the fundamental problem that people want bigger and bigger cars?

            Frankly, if you could give me airbags, aircon, heat, 2 relatively roomy seats, etc and enough trunk space for groceries in as small a package as my fat ass can reasonably fit in with as good a gas mileage as physically possible I’d be down for that. But then the cars I’ve owned have been things like a Geo Metro 2 seat convertible (it weighed next to nothing, the speedometer stopped at 85 and the straight-3 engine sounded like a swarm of bees that got angrier as you went faster), a Daewoo Lanos, a Kia Forte, a Scion xD (I got talked out of the iQ), and the biggest of the lot - a Toyota Avalon.

    • frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe
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      3 days ago

      It’s that last thing that america (or at least California) has an issue with. We fucking love stop signs. If you have a stop sign every other block, your mpg is gonna be in the range matt gaetz would be interested in regardless of what car you drive.

      • SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee
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        3 days ago

        Buddy, I don’t know when the last time you drove a car in the summer with no AC in dress clothes but I lived that for a few seasons and I’ll say that it’s a bigger problem than the stop signs lol

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Idk man, I got comfy 50mpg from a 2 ton Mercedes-Benz with most of the trimmings. Well… it was too old to have AC.

      The acceleration was utter dogshit tho. Comfy ride tho.

  • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Looks like if you ever hit a pebble on the road it would probably flip and kill you. Note also the conspicuous absence of a seat belt. Cute little death machine.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Volvo filed a patent for some sort of seatbelt in 1889. SAAB became the first car company to make any sort of seatbelt standard in 1958. Volvo became the first car company to install modern 3 point belts as standard equipment in 1959.

        So yes, but actually probably not.

        • AFK BRB Chocolate@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          So a patent existed prior, but that doesn’t mean they were made. SAAB made them standard 14 years after this car. Do with no other data, I’d say no and no.

          Edit: just realized that reads like I’m being pissy, but that wasn’t the tone my finger was swiping with. Thanks for the data!

          • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Well the key word there is standard. I’m guessing that seatbelts were optional equipment prior to that, because I have seen a '50 SAAB 92 that had a driver’s side lap belt, which I believe was original equipment. I have also seen a '45 Chevy truck that also had a lap belt, but I’m unsure if that was original equipment.

            That’s why I said yes, but probably not.

            • BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              I think the popular argument against seatbelts was a long the lines of guns cars don’t kill people, reckless drivers kill people. Which, I guess, is the same argument that we use for anything that’s a bad idea for society as a whole, but is lucrative.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Preston Tucker designed his Tucker Torpedo with a safety belt (and a lot of other safety features) in 1948.

        And then was driven out of business by the Big Three automakers in the U.S.

        There’s a good movie about it.

      • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        No, that was before Ralph Nader made a whole ruckus about car safety (and rightly so). Still, we’re looking at this from the year 2024 so you can really tell this vehicle doesn’t make sense in our time.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          3 days ago

          I sometimes think about Ralph Nader, and the overall balance sheet of lives he is directly responsible for saving, vs lives that he is (I guess indirectly) responsible for ruining and/or ending due to spoiling the 2000 election.

          Interesting thought experiment. I guess.

        • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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          3 days ago

          Velomobiles are a modern thing. Speed records are over 80kmh from human power only, but ebike motors can achieve that easily.

          While most are not this “delta trike” format, and instead have 2 wheels in front, the stability is not crazy bad for deltas. Most are weather proof.

    • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Yeah but not instantly. It would drag you around the road grinding your meats and bones into a nice pasty consistency.

      • BenLeMan@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I mean, I could see a modern version being made with a rally harness-type restraint system and a windshield frame that doubles as a rollover bar. In this case the biggest danger would be to the driver’s limbs.

  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    OK, but this appears to carry a maximum of two people and doesn’t look like it has a trunk, so…how would this be better than public transit? Realistically, anyone who bought this would still need a full sized car to support a family of more than two, so this thing would only work for single people or childless couples. It’s cool, and certainly better than everyone owning their own sedan, but not exactly a practical solution to car culture.

    • greedytacothief@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      That’s kind of like asking, “why do people buy ebikes?” These seem the fit the same nich but like in 1944. Obviously it’s not a perfect solution, humans and perfect solutions mix like oil and water. (Salad dressing is mostly oil and water, so I guess that’s the perfect solution)

          • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Yes. There were stream powered bikes since the mid-19th century, the earliest motorcycles were basically bikes with combustion engines attached, and there were even battery-powered electric bikes available at the turn of the 20th century. Here’s an electric bike from 1935:

  • PineRune@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    It’s almost a motorcycle. Something like this would be great for commuting, if not for all the Compensator™ Trucks and SUVs on the road.

    • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      I feel bad for driving a big SUV, but I needed something electric that was easy for my wife to get in and out of.

      • MightyCuriosity@sh.itjust.works
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        3 days ago

        Any electric vehicle is high because of the batteries. That’s why so many are those awful looking crossovers. SUVs you have to climb into which would make them harder to get in and out of. So I don’t really follow your logic I’m afraid.

      • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I totally get the need for tall vehicles that are easy for people to get in and out. Not everyone can lift themselves from a low seat in a modern sedan or coupe. Accessibility is important.

  • Wahots@pawb.social
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    4 days ago

    I’m not sure I’d want to do 45 in that thing, hell of a way to go if you got speed wobbles. I could see a use for kei vehicles in downtown areas. Traffic is so bad that a car’s top speed might be 30 if you are lucky. Mass transit, bikes and tiny vehicles are what most people could easily get away with day to day.

    • JordanZ@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Oddly enough my state made UTV’s(side by sides) street legal and that opened up the legality of kei trucks and the such being street legal here. One of my coworkers has something like this.

      Not entirely sure how long that’s going to last. They’ve already threatened removing that law because people are abusing the hell out of it. They had to do an education campaign because people just thought you could take them on the road. They need to be licensed, registered and insured to the same standards as a car…aka at least liability to state minimums.

      They can’t go on any road over 45mph(even though a lot of the nicer ones can go much faster). It was kind of comical to see the number of roads that went from 45 to 50 because of this.

      Red light? I’m in an off-road UTV! Hop this curb, go over the side walk and make my right turn! Not to mention the jack assess that have their 50” 40,000 lumen light bars on the roof blasting at ALL TIMES.

      That and one city had $350K of damage done to a park because somebody thought doing doughnuts in the fields was a good idea. Much harder to do if you have to trailer it there first.

      I’m mostly in favor of it but the people outright breaking the law need to be dealt with. There are some safety concerns I have with it as well. Those vehicles are not safety tested. Even a small sedan would make an absolute mess of them in most accidents. That’s fine if you are making that decision consciously. The amount of people that load up their entire family and kids in these things is alarming though. Sometimes kids that would need a car seat in a car but it’s a UTV!

      Well that comment got a lot longer than I was planning. I’d love a kei car for around town though. I’m aware of the risks…it’s not worse than my motorcycle.