Cheney hates Trump because of his ties to Russia. For threatening to have the US leave NATO. January 6th. And above all the cardinal GOP sin of attacking fellow party members. Liz has repeatedly been the focus of Trump’s outbursts because she’s stood up to him. And to a ghoul like Cheney, attacking the in-group is a big no no. Especially his own daughter.
Plenty more Republicans are supporting Kamala Harris and they have good reasons that don’t involve Russia. Furthermore, most true Republicans see the destruction of the conservative party by MAGA and want to defeat it to save the party.
If the Democratic party gets to be too large of a tent, and the Republican party shrinks, eventually the Democratic party will fracture too, and we might get a real progressive party out of it.
Is it shrinking? The popular vote doesn’t suggest so.
2004: Bush 62M (W, 51%) Kerry 59M (L)
2008: McCain 60M (L, 47%) Obama 69M (W)
2012: Romney 60M (L, 48%) Obama 66M (W)
2016: Trump 63M (W, 48%). Hillary 68M (L)
2020: Trump 74M (L, 46%) Biden 81M (W)
Edit: added the Republicans percentages.
eventually the Democratic party will fracture too, and we might get a real progressive party out of it.
When will this happen? How would this even be different than now? If the “Democratic party” turn into Republicans on the issues to get rid of the “Republican party”, you didn’t get rid of Republicans. You rebranded them and gave them victory on the policy front just to claim victory on the optics front…
It seems much more likely that the Democratic parties policy of appeasement leads to normalization of right wing policies and we get full blown facsism first.
Except the democratic party isn’t a large tent. There are almost no leftists in power in it. And those voters that are leftists are rapidly leaving the party.
You can’t get a progressive party by becoming the white suburbanite party.
most true Republicans see the destruction of the conservative party by MAGA and want to defeat it to save the party.
Where were nearly all of them for the past 8 years? Oh yeah, supporting Trump and maga.
I’m glad they are going to help defeat him in 2024, but they can eat a bag of dicks after that. I’ll neither forgive nor forget the monster they invited into the nation (and I mean the entire maga crowd and mindset, not just Trump). It would be within the realm of scifi for me to vote for a Republican as so much a a local fileclerk at any point between now and when old age takes me.
I mean, it’s both. Republicans are driven away from Trump because he’s obviously a grifter to anyone with a room temperature IQ, but also leftists don’t have any other option but the center-right Democrats. If we had a healthy spread of parties (enabled by ranked choice voting and the abolition of the electoral college) there is no way you’d see the Cheneys voting in the same bloc with anyone even remotely left.
Bernie and AOC being given a speaker slot at the convention is a radical shift from where leftists were 8 years ago. The idea that the Democrats are moving right while we have declared socialists presenting front and center is a significant misunderstanding of the last 30+ years of political discourse in this country.
Bernie and AOC are progressives, sure, but the Dems as a monolith are objectively not leftist in the slightest. They’re just more left than the Republicans. Even if they have moved left, they’re still center-right by any reasonable metric. Note that I said nothing about the direction they’re moving.
💯 and really, everyone here and even @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org deserve a victory lap. Kicking, and screaming and against Thur own will, we’re making the Democratic party a party of the left as we pry it from the cold goulish fingers The Neocon/Neolib order.
Justice Democrats, Our Revolution, Sunset movement, Wolf pack, many others. We’ve moved the needle. But also, we’re super disorganized. Under Trump, we were good damned militant. Fucking lit af. Biden was a relief valve we all desperately needed but it also reduced the impetus the pressure to respond the stress. Leftist originating complexly collapsed under Biden.
It’s the wartime castilione vs peace time contradiction. Frankly I think the insurgent left is far more effective in the outside power scenario, but wowo we need to learn to not eat our own. I look at how often here, truly significant and honest posters are implied to be bots or paid shills or whatever. Look how fucking united leftist media was in 2020 and look how fractuous it is under peace time conditions. TYT members hate MR members. Everyone’s shitting on everyone and accusing them of being shills. I often think about what Micheal Brooks would think of the state of leftist media.
The reality is that leftists need to find a way to work together or more centrist elements will find wling partners on the right. Save this post and mark my words, they are counting on being able to frog March the DNC to the right. And the DNC leadership wants this. Look at that last night of the convention. It was basically a Republican micro convention.
For sure, but also it might be an indication of how much we’re leaving on the table.
Would Cheney endorse a M4A candidate?
Would Cheney endorse an arms embargo on Israel candidate?
What’s the line? How much more could we be going for here?
Realistically Cheney is bringing us effectively 0 voters, maybe even negative a few. So if it’s these steps to the right Harris keeps making that give us Cheney with no ec votes, show me the value.
AOC could be the democratic nominee and the Cheney family would likely still vote for the democrats. He’s not voting for Harris because he likes her policies. He voting for her because of this reason that he gave…
“In our nation’s 248-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump,” Cheney said in a statement. “He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him. He can never be trusted with power again.”
“As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris”
I think it more that the other option is just that insane. It’s not as much a left vs right thing. It’s a business as usual vs. Chaos election. Cheney being in favor of someone playing by the normal rules isn’t that surprising.
Cheney is an absolute ghoul, but I don’t doubt that the neocon stupidity he embraced during the Bush administration was at least partly out of a desire for America to remain ‘top dog’.
Trump is sitting here ready to quite literally sell our position to Russia and China.
It’s a WW2 moment. The Soviets and the Western Allies join hands, because even though each thinks the other is fucking terrible, there’s a more vile foe afoot.
Trump and his ilk… They believe in fucking NOTHING. I’m not even convinced their goal, at its core, is even self-enrichment. I’m pretty well convinced the whole movement is just extremely self-destructive mental illness metastasisized into a political party.
I’m not even convinced their goal, at its core, is even self-enrichment.
I’m almost certain it’s not. There are so many easier ways to unjustly enrich yourself in this country.
I’m pretty well convinced the whole movement is just extremely self-destructive mental illness metastasisized into a political party.
I think you’re right. People sometimes underestimate the power of culture and popular delusions. They rarely make the fire on their own, but they are one fucking hell of an accelerant.
I doubt any two of Trump’s team members have the same goals. It’s like a clown car full of grifters, con men, psychopaths, power seekers and snake oil salesmen.
Trump is sitting here ready to quite literally sell our position to Russia and China
God, I wish I lived in the reality liberals have concocted for themselves.
You’re making Trump sound way cooler than he is. He’s a less savvy but more enthusiastic imperialist. Ending American (read white, anglo) supremacy does not inspire dread to anyone but weird xenophobes, financial exploiters of the global south, and weapons manufacturers.
I’m supposed to think one of the worst war criminals in human history endorsing your candidate is a good thing because their new guy is…checks notes…NOT PATRIOTIC ENOUGH? Is being the more competent pillager supposed to be an appeal?..while rent, food, and healthcare are unaffordable?
All this rhetoric does is inspires anyone who cares about anything above profit and bloodlust to not vote for your candidate. Meanwhile the people who like this xenophobic shit will vote for the more enthusiastic Republicans.
It’s a business as usual vs. Chaos election. Cheney being in favor of someone playing by the normal rules isn’t that surprising.
This doesn’t actually oppose their point that
I think it’s indicative of just how far right the “left” have gone. We have no real representation.
“Business as usual” is right wing politics, even to the Democratic party at this point, which is supposed to be the left wing.
If you keep shifting right to pick up people like Cheney, eventually your policy will just be the same as Cheney and if anyone wants to go further right they have to go “just that insane” to seperate themselves because republicans are never going to shift left.
Harris will likely try to pass more left leaning goals, but she isn’t going to fundamentally change the rules or change priorities based on the last conversation she had with someone. It’s easier to be an opposition party than trying to control Trump.
It’s because if you ever got a real leftist candidate into office you’d immediately turn on them when they refused to fill the reflecting pool with billionaire blood.
Maybe that’s what the corporate media says but AoC is popular in her district. What really happens is money from AIPAC comes in and unseats the leftist candidate during the primaries.
How dare you?! Your criticism of the conservative lite party and unwillingness to compromise with the full blown fascists makes you the real fascist! (heavy /s)
I think it’s indicative of just how far right the “left” have gone. We have no real representation.
Not related to that at all.
Cheney hates Trump because of his ties to Russia. For threatening to have the US leave NATO. January 6th. And above all the cardinal GOP sin of attacking fellow party members. Liz has repeatedly been the focus of Trump’s outbursts because she’s stood up to him. And to a ghoul like Cheney, attacking the in-group is a big no no. Especially his own daughter.
Plenty more Republicans are supporting Kamala Harris and they have good reasons that don’t involve Russia. Furthermore, most true Republicans see the destruction of the conservative party by MAGA and want to defeat it to save the party.
So you think it’s a good thing that today’s Democrats are yesterday’s Republicans?
What does that tell you about tomorrows Democrats?
We have to stop catering to and priding ourselves on how much Republicans like us, Republicans only like Republicans.
If the Democratic party gets to be too large of a tent, and the Republican party shrinks, eventually the Democratic party will fracture too, and we might get a real progressive party out of it.
Is it shrinking? The popular vote doesn’t suggest so.
2004: Bush 62M (W, 51%) Kerry 59M (L)
2008: McCain 60M (L, 47%) Obama 69M (W)
2012: Romney 60M (L, 48%) Obama 66M (W)
2016: Trump 63M (W, 48%). Hillary 68M (L)
2020: Trump 74M (L, 46%) Biden 81M (W)
Edit: added the Republicans percentages.
When will this happen? How would this even be different than now? If the “Democratic party” turn into Republicans on the issues to get rid of the “Republican party”, you didn’t get rid of Republicans. You rebranded them and gave them victory on the policy front just to claim victory on the optics front…
It seems much more likely that the Democratic parties policy of appeasement leads to normalization of right wing policies and we get full blown facsism first.
Except the democratic party isn’t a large tent. There are almost no leftists in power in it. And those voters that are leftists are rapidly leaving the party.
You can’t get a progressive party by becoming the white suburbanite party.
Where were nearly all of them for the past 8 years? Oh yeah, supporting Trump and maga.
I’m glad they are going to help defeat him in 2024, but they can eat a bag of dicks after that. I’ll neither forgive nor forget the monster they invited into the nation (and I mean the entire maga crowd and mindset, not just Trump). It would be within the realm of scifi for me to vote for a Republican as so much a a local fileclerk at any point between now and when old age takes me.
Being protective of your own daughter is hardly due to being a ghoul.
I mean, Dick Cheney is a ghoul, but not for this reason.
What a weird take. This is indicative of how awful Trump is.
I mean, it’s both. Republicans are driven away from Trump because he’s obviously a grifter to anyone with a room temperature IQ, but also leftists don’t have any other option but the center-right Democrats. If we had a healthy spread of parties (enabled by ranked choice voting and the abolition of the electoral college) there is no way you’d see the Cheneys voting in the same bloc with anyone even remotely left.
Bernie and AOC being given a speaker slot at the convention is a radical shift from where leftists were 8 years ago. The idea that the Democrats are moving right while we have declared socialists presenting front and center is a significant misunderstanding of the last 30+ years of political discourse in this country.
Bernie and AOC are progressives, sure, but the Dems as a monolith are objectively not leftist in the slightest. They’re just more left than the Republicans. Even if they have moved left, they’re still center-right by any reasonable metric. Note that I said nothing about the direction they’re moving.
💯 and really, everyone here and even @jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org deserve a victory lap. Kicking, and screaming and against Thur own will, we’re making the Democratic party a party of the left as we pry it from the cold goulish fingers The Neocon/Neolib order.
Justice Democrats, Our Revolution, Sunset movement, Wolf pack, many others. We’ve moved the needle. But also, we’re super disorganized. Under Trump, we were good damned militant. Fucking lit af. Biden was a relief valve we all desperately needed but it also reduced the impetus the pressure to respond the stress. Leftist originating complexly collapsed under Biden.
It’s the wartime castilione vs peace time contradiction. Frankly I think the insurgent left is far more effective in the outside power scenario, but wowo we need to learn to not eat our own. I look at how often here, truly significant and honest posters are implied to be bots or paid shills or whatever. Look how fucking united leftist media was in 2020 and look how fractuous it is under peace time conditions. TYT members hate MR members. Everyone’s shitting on everyone and accusing them of being shills. I often think about what Micheal Brooks would think of the state of leftist media.
The reality is that leftists need to find a way to work together or more centrist elements will find wling partners on the right. Save this post and mark my words, they are counting on being able to frog March the DNC to the right. And the DNC leadership wants this. Look at that last night of the convention. It was basically a Republican micro convention.
Call me when there’s evidence of Harris executing on policy recommended by those two (and others) not sprinting to the “center.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/briefing/kamala-harris-convention-speech.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4852729-harris-issues-center-shifted/
Until then it’s platitudes.
For sure, but also it might be an indication of how much we’re leaving on the table.
Would Cheney endorse a M4A candidate?
Would Cheney endorse an arms embargo on Israel candidate?
What’s the line? How much more could we be going for here?
Realistically Cheney is bringing us effectively 0 voters, maybe even negative a few. So if it’s these steps to the right Harris keeps making that give us Cheney with no ec votes, show me the value.
AOC could be the democratic nominee and the Cheney family would likely still vote for the democrats. He’s not voting for Harris because he likes her policies. He voting for her because of this reason that he gave…
When the person you despise makes a great point.
It’s more of a sign that one guy is such a batshit insane criminal that people would rather vote for pretty much anyone else.
I think it more that the other option is just that insane. It’s not as much a left vs right thing. It’s a business as usual vs. Chaos election. Cheney being in favor of someone playing by the normal rules isn’t that surprising.
Cheney is an absolute ghoul, but I don’t doubt that the neocon stupidity he embraced during the Bush administration was at least partly out of a desire for America to remain ‘top dog’.
Trump is sitting here ready to quite literally sell our position to Russia and China.
It’s a WW2 moment. The Soviets and the Western Allies join hands, because even though each thinks the other is fucking terrible, there’s a more vile foe afoot.
Yeah, there’s the effect Cheney and his gang all having American supremacy as their goal, with them and their corporate fuck-buddies specifically on top of the heap. In their own particularly fucked kind of way, they did care about America or something.
Trump and his ilk… They believe in fucking NOTHING. I’m not even convinced their goal, at its core, is even self-enrichment. I’m pretty well convinced the whole movement is just extremely self-destructive mental illness metastasisized into a political party.
I’m almost certain it’s not. There are so many easier ways to unjustly enrich yourself in this country.
I think you’re right. People sometimes underestimate the power of culture and popular delusions. They rarely make the fire on their own, but they are one fucking hell of an accelerant.
I doubt any two of Trump’s team members have the same goals. It’s like a clown car full of grifters, con men, psychopaths, power seekers and snake oil salesmen.
Obligatory reminder that Dick Cheney literally does not have a heart or a pulse, as his heart was replaced by a continuous flow pump.
So… ghoul indeed.
He ushered in PNAC which has morphed into Project 2025 afaict.
Not even close.
God, I wish I lived in the reality liberals have concocted for themselves.
You’re making Trump sound way cooler than he is. He’s a less savvy but more enthusiastic imperialist. Ending American (read white, anglo) supremacy does not inspire dread to anyone but weird xenophobes, financial exploiters of the global south, and weapons manufacturers.
I’m supposed to think one of the worst war criminals in human history endorsing your candidate is a good thing because their new guy is…checks notes…NOT PATRIOTIC ENOUGH? Is being the more competent pillager supposed to be an appeal?..while rent, food, and healthcare are unaffordable?
All this rhetoric does is inspires anyone who cares about anything above profit and bloodlust to not vote for your candidate. Meanwhile the people who like this xenophobic shit will vote for the more enthusiastic Republicans.
He’s not that cool, but he’s greedy.
Unfortunately, “Business as usual” in our political climate, is a pretty conservative sentiment.
I get that you’re saying Cheney is just making a rational decision but it doesn’t contradict the Op’s point.
This doesn’t actually oppose their point that
“Business as usual” is right wing politics, even to the Democratic party at this point, which is supposed to be the left wing.
If you keep shifting right to pick up people like Cheney, eventually your policy will just be the same as Cheney and if anyone wants to go further right they have to go “just that insane” to seperate themselves because republicans are never going to shift left.
Harris will likely try to pass more left leaning goals, but she isn’t going to fundamentally change the rules or change priorities based on the last conversation she had with someone. It’s easier to be an opposition party than trying to control Trump.
And here I thought all these right wingers just had a change of heart and became good people all of a sudden. /s
Since when is there a “left” candidate in the US elections?
There’s a Green Party candidate every election.
Do they have the sligthest chance of winning?
You asked where the left candidates are. I told you.
Technically correct - the best kind of correct.avi 🙄
More like the right has gone so far right that dickhead is a left leaning moderate lmao
Both us parties are right wing. So yes, the right (dems and GOP) have gone farther right.
It’s because if you ever got a real leftist candidate into office you’d immediately turn on them when they refused to fill the reflecting pool with billionaire blood.
Maybe that’s what the corporate media says but AoC is popular in her district. What really happens is money from AIPAC comes in and unseats the leftist candidate during the primaries.
Don’t worry - as many on here will tell you, AoC is a corporate puppet and a sellout.
If there was a real leftist candidate you’d ally with the GOP to remove them. You might even kill them or throw them in prison.
Me personally? No. Most of the populace? Hard to say.
How dare you?! Your criticism of the conservative lite party and unwillingness to compromise with the full blown fascists makes you the real fascist! (heavy /s)
I don’t think it’s so lite anymore.
Too right. I’d actually used “fascist lite” before changing it, but I figured give the libs a little break from the full on reality check lol