- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- europe@feddit.de
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- europe@feddit.de
Apple being Apple again. Just why does anyone actually like that company?
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Man, they’re seething against the EU, totally pissed that the legislators worked against their abuse over developers and rubbed against their cash cow.
Apple is all about money and fucking the user, being no different from Meta or Google. All they have is shinier hardware.
Much worse than Google IMO, at least when it comes to fucking with rules made by EU. Google usually tries to appeal legally and if it doesn’t work out, they do what they must. This Apple bulshittery with 3rd party app stores is a new one. Someone here in this thread said that the worst EU can do to companies breaking DMA is forcing them to sell the division. I would love for Apple to push EU that far.
Companies working against technical standards are basically working against society. And no one fights standards quite like Apple.
But but but muh innovation! Standards ruin that! /s
I’d argue they have better hardware. I’d love to have an iPhone running stock Android.
I mean the og comment literally said “all they have is shinier hardware”
Just read it wrong since Google was mentioned right before the start of the final sentence
That would be the dream :)
Apple is scary because they succeeded at creating a sect by frontal assault, so to say.
Google did that very subtly and precisely in the 00s, and like a decade ago firmly diverted to the MS way.
MS didn’t go in the cult direction, they slowly and steadily capitalized on their monopolistic power with moderation and modesty.
While Apple almost from the beginning just shat on everybody and everybody asked for more. They even took the counterculture niche partially in the 90s and 00s. And for clueless people it’s still them.
What about privacy though? Google runs an ad network, so clearly they have financial incentive to spy hard.
So does Apple, the difference being they grabbed it all to themselves. This is why they have “no tracking” options, to seal competition off while selling themselves as the privacy champions and also selling their in house ad solution. That and the fact that they worked with the government behind users back, and having a shoddy work to secure their OS.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56995192
https://www.vox.com/recode/23045136/apple-app-tracking-transparency-privacy-ads
Apple is not any better than Meta, they just lie better.
Fuck apple with a cactus.
Sideways.
Lol, what phone are you using?
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? The dude said to fuck someone with a cactus. That’s hilarious - no one else thinks that’s funny? I’m still laughing lol
OnePlus 10 pro.
Would never sacrifice the flexibility and customizability of an Android device for the clunky and unintuitive UI of an iPhone.
You can say many things about apple but clunky and unintuitive would not be it.
You only find Apple’s UI intuitive because you’re used to it.
I don’t find it intuitive at all. Whenever I’ve used an iPhone, I’ve had to ask for help.
And I’m a full stack web developer, who contributes to some other software projects in my spare time. I’ve been around computers a fair bit.
Operating systems these days are complicated. It’s difficult to make them immediately intuitive to a new user. This isn’t a dig at Apple. Any modern, highly featured OS is like this.
Same. I have no idea how to use an iphone. Even basic things are frustrating.
I’ve tried an Iphone XR for 1 month. It’s intuitive, but Android is too.
Just wanted to chime in that I’m not an apple user, I primarily use android and windows. iPad is the only iOS device I use. I flat out disagree with clunky, Apple’s UI design (on iOS at least) is beautiful. UX wise, I can’t comment on functional differences between Android and iOS, at this stage in time, both are comparably usable for most people.
Some apple user experience choices definitely feel clunky.
Plugging an iPhone into a computer to move files around is a nightmare. The way notifications work on iOS is extremely clunky. Pairing non-apple devices to your apple device is purposely made clunky. Bastardising PWAs has led to them being clunky af.
Using MacOS and having to memorise some wild keyboard shortcuts is clunky. Not being able to minimise a program by clicking the icon in the dock feels clunky. MacOS flipping out when you want to tile one window but not another feels clunky. Apple’s workspace view and app menu view not being integrated together (a la Gnome Activities view) feels clunky. The whole app installation process (outside of the Mac store) is super clunky.
Apple is extremely visually consistent. But they absolutely have UX clunkiness, just as the others do. It’s fine though, most people don’t care. I’m pretty anal about these things.
I mean this is all subjective of course, but something like installing apps on macOS is extremely easy. Like Windows, apps can install themselves in about three or so different ways (not including managed devices), but most macOS apps you download are simply dragged into the applications folder - that’s it. To uninstall, you drag the app to the trash bin and empty the trash.
I compel you to try to snap to tile a single windows to a side of the desktop in a macOS fresh install.
spoiler
You can’t because, to do that thing that every single desktop environment can do out of the box, you need to install a third party app on macOS. This and many other QoL features that are bog standard on Windows and Linux today are not present on macOS.
Now, I want you to tell me out of the top of your head, what does pressing the green button achieves on the window for Safari? Do you think it will do the same on the settings window? What will it do for the App Store? Do you think it will do the same thing on all three or three different things? Which one do you expect?
Final challenge, make the window for the calculator stay on top of all other windows.
So why fuck Apple? You’re using an Android device, Apple has updated their software in a way that doesn’t compel you to want to try an Apple device, end of story why all the vitriol?
I could see, maybe, if you were already an Apple user and wanted them to make a change that you want on your device. But having so much hate for a device you have no intention of using anyway?
This change impacts every mobile user, not just iPhone users. iPhones are a good portion of the userbase of most apps/websites. For PWAs to gain mass adoption, it needs to be available for the majority of users. This change means that will not be the case in the EU.
PWAs have just been doomed by Apple, and unless Apple reverts this change, they will now never be successful in the EU. And probably not even outside of the EU since non-european products still have european users.
I don’t think that’s why this guy is mad
Motorola
My man!
I got it and it made me laugh
Third party browser & JavaScript engine + ability to install web apps on the Home screen = third party app store that doesn’t have to pay Apple’s fees.
When Apple could force everyone to use Apple’s WebKit, web apps didn’t matter as much as Apple could limit WebKit features to push people to the App Store. E.g. it took ages to get push notifications on WebKit. If Google and Mozilla are free to make whatever improvements to their browser engines, the need to have native apps on the phone decreases considerably.
That’s what I really want personally, the mobile web Steve Jobs envisioned. Glorious web apps without flash.
He pushed everything into apps though. Getting rid of flash was a big part of that because JavaScript wasn’t capable of all of the same things at that time. The canvas wasn’t fully supported yet. That meant games and anything with crazy animations needed to be an app.
Killing flash was one of the first steps to where we are now. It may not have been perfect but it did a lot for its time.
Just why does anyone actually like that company?
I mean, if Google weren’t shit, I’m sure Android would be more viable. They’ve can’t even keep a consistent brand! They’ve gone from Google Play this and that, to migrating everything - including podcasts - to YouTube.
migrating everything - including podcasts - to YouTube
If only there were other apps for podcasts on Android, it would be a viable operating system.
Google is kind of crap, but Android has a lot more built-in escape hatches than iOS does. People don’t seem to use them as much as I’d hoped, but they’re available.
I’ve been using Podcast Addict for years now. Dunno why people think they are bound to one thing when Android offers so many choices.
I think they’re just have choice paralysis. There’s too much stuff on Android, and picking something is really rather anoying.
Something like a Gallery. There’s probably a 1000 galleries on Play Store, 50% of them are “my first app”, that display a fullscreen ad every other photo.
You have to know what you want, research it, then get it. Non-nerds don’t really care about that.
My guess. I’m a nerd who does care about all that.
You do have a point, but each App’s play store page itself shows whether it has ads or in-app purchases. One can use that as an indicator for selecting an app. So people just need to pay attention to the small text right below the App’s title
Then there is always f-droid . You can find really good quality software without ads in fdroid. I rarely use the play store these days (except when I have to update whatsapp and banking apps)
Again, you’re telling this to an android nerd. I’m aware.
I’m speaking from a perspective of an average joe, who is 100% not aware of the existance of F-droid or is convinced that it’s malware.
I’m also don’t expect people sift through hundreds of apps, opening each page and checking permissions/ads/reviews.
People install apps either because they’ve heard about it on TV/whatever, or a friend told them to install this specific app.
This is why people rely on default apps, and compare “phones” based on that.
I will confess I used Google podcasts for years not realizing that the FOSS alternatives were MASSIVE improvements.
Is there a podcast app that automatically plays the next episode of podcasts in the correct order (oldest to newest)?
I’ve tried a bunch of podcast apps and none of them seem to do that like Google podcasts did, unless I’m using them wrong.
Antennapod can do that. You can define the sort order per show.
Pocketcasts fixed that a while ago. You can set the sorting of episodes for each podcast and then it plays in that order.
While I totally agree, the average Joe is just going to gravitate to whomever controls the ecosystem. Kinda hard to trust a higher authority when they can’t even get their in-house shit together.
Are you implying that the average user doesn’t know how to install an app? My 80 yo parents do that on their samsung tablet.
No need to trust any higher authorities, whatever that means
I think they mean the average person isn’t going to take the time to check 20 different contacts apps in the store to find the perfect one, then do it again with every other basic app on their phone.
They’re just gonna use the default app 99%
I’m implying that people choose the path of least resistance.
Gotcha, sorry misunderstood
Android is more popular globally, the only place where it isn’t true (AFAIK) is USA where the colour of the text bubble is important for reasons that defy logic.
where the colour of the text bubble is important for reasons that defy logic.
That’s just a thing tweens and teens do, it’s just like when kids were obsessed with expensive shoes when I was a kid and would ostracize the kids who couldn’t afford them. No sane adult I have ever met gave a shit about my text bubbles.
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If that company is serious about conducting professional business for any length of time, they’ll learn better soon enough. In my industry, we still use dialup modems to remotely manage some equipment. You’d be fired for telling a customer to fuck off for not having a specific phone.
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That’s half-true. No adults I voluntarily associate with care what brand of phone anybody else has in theory, but a lot of the iPhone owners are vehemently unwilling to install any third-party messaging apps. That means:
- Messaging about anything where security is important is a problem. Most people don’t have big secrets, but sending things that could be used for identity theft isn’t terribly rare.
- Exchanging high-quality media is impossible.
- People will exclude non-iPhone users from group chats because falling back to MMS is a bad experience for everyone.
Yeah. We usually mock apple users in my country xd they go in high debt to get one of those candy bricks and can’t even afford a cellular plan afterwards. Lmao
Google’s marketing department defies logic every day.
Is that your biggest concern about a tech company? Id be happy for marketing departments to he shut down and the money redirected to make better/cheaper products.
While Google sucks now and has for a while, in their early days they have demonstrated that marketing is not all it takes to make innovative, successful products.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, Apple obsession with marketing has created fanboys that spend the night queuing up to be the first to get the latest iPhone, and that don’t question the technology or ethics (or anything) behind the flashing toy that they crave. Good for the executives and the shareholder but as a customer?
Fuck google buy a google pixel then put grapheneos on it
Fuck Google
Give them money
Is there another option?
Other options are Fairphone, Volla, Murena - or flashing “vanilla” custom ROM’s on phones other than Pixels - or using Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, Mobian, Droidian or Sailfish OS.
Its kinda ironic that google pixel is the only phone with decent secirity hardware and an unlockablw bootloader.
Buy a second-hand Google Pixel.
They would make a lot more money on that purchase if it’s vanilla android though. Yes, you’re spending money on the hardware, but is Google really known for making bank on just hardware sales?
- Buy an old Xperia 10 III.
- Flash SailfishOS there
- ???
- Profit
buy a used phone
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I moved from android to iphone 2 years ago. As soon as this piece of crap dies, I’m moving back to android.
Heh, welcome back soon!
looking forward to being able to have separate volumes for notifications and ringer again… "#/(%)&#)$%&
For me the notifications were the biggest gripe.
Unfortunately that’s not a stock Android thing, so weird
Really? Pixels have had that function for a while now. I always assumed it was stock.
I have a Pixel, notification and ringer are combined
I am not a huge fan of Apple but they will probably be stuck on iOS for a while. Their phones last quite a long time and get updates for very long.
honestly, the shitty user experience might make me chuck it into the trash before it actually dies.
Haha, that’s fair enough.
i find it absolutely hilarious when iphone fans talk about a polished user experience, it’s a joke.
no one complains about their phones more than iphone users
As does every good phone in that price range.
Updates though?
This year’s top Samsung has 7 years of updates guaranteed.
How was it earlier?
5 years, before that 3 years, before that worse and not even standardized.
welcome back, let’s hope Play Integrity has an exploit found in case you bought a Xiaomi or Alcatel or whatever.
Aah, the security again…
Fuck this company
Welp, this might be kbin for me. It’s the only circumstance I’ve really found a PWA necessary, although I’ve considered making PWAs of some online shops I frequent.
I suspect Apple is eliminating PWAs from safari in the EU just because they don’t want to be forced to allow 3rd party browsers to do the same. Let’s go ahead and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I’ve actually got a U.S. apple account on an iPhone bought in Japan, and living in the EU temporarily. It’ll be interesting to see how this is going to play out for me.
Apple really sucks hard! What a terrible company! 🤮🤮
Tell me a corporation that doesn’t suck.
When you realize corporations exist for the benefit of shareholders and not the customers it serves, it makes a lot more sense why they act the way they do.
That’s why things like credit unions usually don’t suck as hard.
Some suck just more.
Lol
My only example ever is pretty much Costco. But I can’t think of a single tech company that isn’t a massive asshole. There must be some tho, right?
Valve? I think they are pretty good and pro consumer.
You didn’t used to be able to refund your stream purchases if you downloaded or installed them at all. The fact that they forced intrusive DRM with a single player game in HL2.
Valve was seen as a very unfriendly company until about 2010
how quickly people forget valves pro-consumer shit was forced by regulations and countries suing them into compliance.
Such as?
Losing that fight is the big reason why valve made all the changes its did to be better for consumers… and I wager they did it cause they saw where the dominos would fall if more countries went after them, So they did it themselves to paint it like a big pro-consumer thing instead of a preventing-further-legal-costs thing.
Personally, I am okay with Valve not always being the company they are now. A government did its job and the company it affected became consumer friendly [and still dominated the market by believing in a market no other major publisher wanted to touch at the time]. This is what governments are created for: helping the citizens while letting these companies innovate.
Valve basically killed the second hand market of PC Games with their Steam keys tied forever to one account. CD Keys was a thing before Steam but only for online games and if you sold the game or lended it out to a buddy the next person could play with same key. Nope too pro consumer thought Valve, made it mandatory for singleplayer games like Half-Life 2. They forced people buying Half-Life 2 to install Steam & create Steam account which at the time was not ready and basically just an early DRM to tie license forever to one account.
Many people could not even play at release, they could not prove they owned what they had bought, cause servers were overloaded so they were locked out of playing an offline singleplayer game on their own computer. Unfortunately that is custom nowadays when big games launch with contrived shitty online service crap forced down gamers throats. Valve basically pioneered that shit among many other douchey moves. They are better than scum like EA & Ubisoft especially these days but far from perfect. So no they all suck to some degree.
For now… Things can always change and it’s usually for the worst.
I personally believe Costco does suck but somehow a large number of people are blind to it.
Canonical 🏴
No, they suck too.
Doing a very similar tactic to Apple with their snaps.
As a sysadmin and self-hoster this decision will absolutely make me drop Apple 150%. A clean and well implemented pwa was a big reason I have stuck with my iPhone 12 despite buying a pixel 7. I know there are options on Android but they all have issues either in ux or in ui that makes it very obvious I’m using a pwa.
This is a Reddit-style circle jerk. A LOT of people like Apple, because even though they’re almost as remorseless as Amazon or Microsoft or Google when it comes to maximizing profits, they build good products, create new product categories, and they’ve been doing both of those things for 40 years.
Is this a sleazy thing to do? Yup. Is it as sleazy as Meta intentionally allowing its algorithm to push softcore kiddie porn to teen Instagram users? Nope. Not even in the same ballpark.
create new product categories
I’m wondering what they are. The Newton was kind of cool, but before it’s time. mp3 players had been out for years before Apple jumped on the bandwagon. Same with phones. I hope this doesn’t come across as snarky “fuck apple”, I’m genuinely curious.
They don’t create new product categories. What they do is enter an existing category, do it the Apple Way, which is generally high-quality and integrated well into their ecosystem, and thus they become the default in people’s minds.
They’ve almost never done anything new, but they integrate existing technologies better than almost every other company.
“Finding the application is half the innovation”
Oh, man! Quite a bit of traffic on my original comment. I won’t spend time engaging on these since they’re pile-ons, but this is objectively trivial to refute.
“They’ve almost never done anything new”? Seriously? How about the user interface when everyone was using DOS? Or the Mac Plus/SE/any of half a dozen other macs in the 80s and early 90s that redefined what a computer could act like and look like? When every other PC was a beige box with identical specs?
Maybe the iPod, which redefined that category and made every other MP3 player obsolete overnight? The iPhone, perhaps? This was the absolute gimme, like I can’t imagine how you made that comment with the iPhone hanging around. What were phones before the iPhone? Blackberries and flip phones. Yeah, it couldn’t copy/paste for two years, but Steve wanted it released, lol.
The iPad would be another. There were smart watches before Apple’s, sort of, but they were pretty crappy and didn’t do the same stuff.
While we’re at it, find me some PC laptops that ever debuted with the stuff Apple put in theirs. High-res screens? Touch ID? Face ID? Even OSX, which is old as hell, is built on UNIX and rock-stable – and was definitely innovative when it first came out, as were some of its predecessors. When OSX came out, your alternative was Windows 95.
Then there are the airpods, I don’t think there were any wireless bluetooth earbuds before those, although I might be wrong. And finally, despite it being way too expensive and five generations away from being useful, the ski goggles. Before you say there’s other VR goggles, recall that only Apple is doing that as AR computing instead of dumb fucking avatars in virtual conference rooms that probably run telemetry on how big your living room is and sell it.
By all means, say Apple is greedy as hell, but don’t make stuff up.
Everything, all of that existed way before Apple. Just because you are ignorant of history doesn’t make your point right. Apple got all of their ideas from interacting with other companies in private, then stealing their ideas. Jobs was no longer invited to certain demos because of that kind of shenanigans. And oh god, OSX is NOT build directly from UNIX. It’s BSD which they scrapped from the NeXT computer. Everything you are spouting is just wrong. Apple is just good at marketing to chumps who care more about status and looks than usability, and who just buy into the cult mentality and lap all of Apple’s bullshit without rubbing two neurons together long enough to notice they are being scalped with overpriced crap.
Please do continue to spew ad-hominem copypasta from every Apple hate thread in the history of Reddit like you’re a first-gen LLM trained on r/foss posts. “All of that existed way before Apple” … please feel free to refute each product I listed as being innovative or new by showing where it previously existed. I’d love to understand how some form of the iPhone was around way before Apple, or the iPad – please go for it.
As for the statement that OSX is based on BSD, wow! Such an important distinction when BSD is a descendant of UNIX… this is a nice little straw man thing, please go look up what a straw man argument is.
On Jobs getting banned from demos, that’s actually hilarious. But please do list any products I named that Apple objectively stole. I’m sure you have all the info there.
Just super fun times, I always hoped that Lemmy would have a higher level of discussion than Reddit. But how can it, when it’s the same people and they’re even more self-important? :D
Good boy, you learned ad-hominem. Now, tell me which other big words you know?
Yeah, the circlejerking and dog piling from people who have no idea what they are talking about is actually far worse here than it was at Reddit - but just know, we aren’t all as misinformed as these people. You’re absolutely correct.
create new product categories
[chasing goose meme]
Like what?
LIKE WHAT MOTHERFUCKER!?
they build good products
Which they charge x4 the value, and always underdeveloped one or two key features in order to scalp further inordinate amounts of money from their users to overcome the underperforming feature they neutered intentionally. Anyone buying from Apple is a chump getting taken advantage of and somehow is convinced to be proud of being abused by a corp.
They do sell good products… Kinda. But they are professional scalpers and scammers. iPhones get their performance nerfed via software after a few years to force you to upgrade. They charge Quadruple price for ram upgrades in their laptops. Now they’re removing, not dropping support, but actively removing a feature that they themselves do not have to develop to stop you installing a feature on a device that you pay for.
Apple do not make superior products, apart from the iPad that’s a genuinely superior product. They sell a walled garden that you have to pay continuous subscriptions to stay in. The subscription in this sense is their app store.
My five year old iPhone runs like it did when I first got it, and I’ve never formatted it.
My dads iPhone 8 is finally starting to lose some of its battery life. But it’s overall performance is totally fine.
I think a lot of people forget that most humans doesn’t need 100000000000gb of ram and 20trillion gbs of storage.
I’m using 65gb of storage, including the os… on my baseline 128gb model.
Most people aren’t editing 8k videos on their iPhones lol. They’re sending a text message.
Yeah seriously. This community hates Apple so much, but so many people here know nothing about their hardware or software. It’s really bizarre. I’m a Windows/Linux user, but I’ve got an iPhone because it’s the absolute best for longevity and privacy if you want a device where you don’t have to fuck about. I’m on my computers all day, I don’t want to have to think about my phone at all.
Is this a sleazy thing to do? Yup
That makes it illegal. The DMA explicitly requires gatekeepers be “proactive” (that’s their words) towards opening up their platform. Removing features just in the EU is the opposite of that.
Besides iPod and iPhone. What product category did Apple create that wasn’t there already?
Imo Apple rolls good solutions, but they very rarely actually innovate.
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Whataboutism much?
Whoever buys apple shit will learn eventually. Or just go extinct.
Some services, like Facebook Gaming, use web apps as a way to get around the Apple App Store and its fees.
Smell coming out from this little hole here :)
Well, now they can use their own Facebook App Store on iPhones in EU, so not sure it really changes anything for them.
Their own Facebook App Store would have to pay the same fees to Apple as the Apple App Store under Apple’s generous terms. Losing the web app escape hatch is a 30% revenue loss
Yeah, I’ll wait until EU has their say, because the shit Apple came up with goes against what EU is trying to achieve.
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Why should I pay apple because my user decided to buy a shitty phone
Another reason to keep hating apple. Fascists corporate america
Holy shit if this is true it will be a game changer for me . Will be start looking android devices. Such a retrograde movement!
It is true
Well, definitely sounds like something they’d do. EU might force them not to, though. Only time will tell how it turns out. But definitely recommend the move to Android!
Queue the Apple dick riders defending their precious megacorp from being a POS company
*Cue
Nah, they are lining up to defend their favorite company.
Que?
