I saw some people on Reddit discussing whether someone was being orientalist, and I agreed they were simply by using the phrase “zen-like concentration”. I’m not offended by them using this term, I just find it stupid. “Zen-like” has absolutely no meaning, but gives an air of eastern spirituality and mysticism. I personally think you should only be able to use that phrase if you can give a detailed and verifiable explanation about the differences between zen-like concentration, huayan-like concentration, mahasthabir nikaya-like concentration, and chan-like concentration, as well as recognize that the last one is exactly the same as zen.
And why is it only ever “zen-like”? I’m sure everyone would find it strange if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic.
You can’t call it zen unless it’s from the zen region of Japan. Otherwise it’s just sparkling concentration.
I feel like it’s a short and convenient loaner word to describe calm/focus/concentration at this point.
I was going to talk shit about OP not understanding etymology but the example sentence on Miriam Webster for “zen like” was about Obama so now I agree with OP.
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Ahem, don’t you know drone bombing brown kids and increasing deportations while claiming to stand for freedom, progress, and dignity for all is in fact the epitome of zen?
if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic
oh please do fuck yeah lmao. unironically a great bit
“Oh man we went to the amusement park, had burgers and to top it all off we then went to this demolition derby! The whole day was packed with evangelical-like action!”
It’s the same as crackers using karma wrong.
Crackers really love using words from other cultures wrong.
i think you get “zen” because it’s so much shorter and convenient than “meditative”. there’s definitely some magical overlap with midcentury martial arts, especially with kyudo being called “zen archery” sometimes.
was buddhism exported like yoga was? (it was but that guy sucks shit lol) i remember somebody tried to have a struggle session about crackers doing yoga but nothing came of it because that was given rather than plundered.
And why is it only ever “zen-like”? I’m sure everyone would find it strange if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic.
there’s a bunch of japanese media that treats christian symbols and syncretic mysticism the way that you get norse gods in marvel or whatever. that seems kinda normal and maybe there should be more of it.
that seems kinda normal and maybe there should be more of it.
abrahamic symbolism in anime fucking rocks (except for when it doesn’t)
Apparently some guy named DT Suzuki introduced a modernized version Zen to the West as like a secular buddhism in the 50s. So westerners see “Zen” as like the meditation and the folk wisdom bits of buddhism.
“wow this calm or focused thing reminds me of this rly specific kind of japanese zen buddhism which is the second most powerful out of all buddhisms after the dalai lama ones”
i let it slide for now
I dunno. The term is a bit silly but i cant be fucked to care one way or the other, honestly.
you can’t say zen unless you play zenyatta in overwatch
Maybe a little, I mean it is dumb but getting bothered by it enough to make a post would only really make sense if you are Buddhist I think
I don’t see why I need to be bothered about something greatly in order to make a post. I’m at work, so it’s not like I’ve got anything better to do. Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that’s why I shitpost on company time.
Braver than the troops
To me the most interesting thing about actual Zen is the stick.
In Zen Buddhism, the keisaku (Japanese: 警策, Chinese: 香板, xiāng bǎn; kyōsaku in the Soto school) is a flat wooden stick or slat used during periods of meditation to remedy sleepiness or lapses of concentration. This is accomplished through a strike or series of strikes, usually administered on the meditator’s back and shoulders in the muscular area between the shoulder and the spine. The keisaku itself is thin and somewhat flexible; strikes with it, though they may cause momentary sting if performed vigorously, are not injurious.
Yet no one ever calls being slapped with a stick a zen-like experience.
Someone in this thread said…
I feel like it’s a short and convenient loaner word to describe calm/focus/concentration at this point.
I’m American that’s how I think most Americans certainly look at the word/concept. And most Americans never bother to learn anything and have no curiosity so they do and say things without thinking and without caring.
Well I think we should change the definition so that it means being hit with a stick in an unwelcome manner.
I could use some of this zen-like concentration tbh
because people think zen = nirvana so they’re saying “Nirvana-like” sort of like how people say “heavenly” but different and probably more bastardized
think i’ve only encountered it in the meditative or hyperfocus sense. I know what a heavenly piece of music is, but I can’t think of any “she has such a zen voice”.
Yeah because nirvana is different from heaven, but idk shit tbh
I’m more of a Smashing Pumpkins or Red Hot Chili Peppers fan
Zen was once the predominant sect followed by the Samurai ruling class so arguably butchering peasants and warring with opposing Buddhist sects is also “zen-like”.
As an idea for annoying these types of westoids, when they talk about Zen you express surprise that they’re into Chinese religion. When they sputter and talk about Zen being Japamese, point out that Zen originated as Chan Buddhism in the Tang dynasty and enquire about specific doctrinal differences between Zen and Chan.
It’s not orientalist, it’s just white people being vapid
the “seventh day adventism” example would only make sense if seventh day adventists were known for their emphasis on meditation. Its kind of a cringe loaner word but idk if I’d go so far as to say it’s completely meaningless like the examples you give, or outright orientalist
I’ve seen people use it in a context that has nothing to do with meditation or calm. The example I saw was about bartending. Maybe it’s not always orientalist, but I think it can often be. For example, I once saw some place describe the Japanese word “genki”, which means to be well or in good health, as being a zen-like state of mind. At that point, you may as well call it a “seventh day adventism-like state of mind”, because both terms are meaningless in this context.
yeah saying genki = zen seems actually orientalist to me lol, in addition to being meaningless drivel
“genki” … as being [in] a zen-like state of mind
Right now I am in a genki (Zen-like) state of pissing myself laughing
As the Zen masters (some type of martial art I think) of Chi… Kor… no, Japan would put it, this is cringe sugiru (def. “to be in excess; to be un-Zen-like”)
Edit: seriously though, if whoever wrote that wanted to play into oriental exoticization, then genki literally means “fundamental qi”, doesn’t it? The term originates in Chinese cosmology, so why drag Zen into this at all?
