A reminder:
Palestinians are awesome!
The genocidal regime that rules over Gaza who murder innocent people while blocking Palestinian democracy is NOT AWESOME!
What about all the Palestinians internationally that are currently celebrating that massacre?
Yeah those guys are on the side of the genocidal regime.
Palestinian fascism… Hamas won the election with just a plurality of the vote then permanently suspended elections ever since. Same old story. Odd how it’s never talked about. I suppose Palestinian fascism complicates support for Palestine for the left so they pretend it isn’t a thing, while it also complicates the “them people are all terrorists” narrative ofr the right.
It’s hard to determine the popularity of Hamas now (there has been an election in over a decade and a half) in the Palestinian population. There is obviously support of the genocidal maniacs in the Palestinian populace because of those celebrations. The people that support Hamas have either been duped by their propaganda or are just straight up evil, or both.
Islamists too. Here in my country they are chanting death to Israel all over social media.
Obviously not awesome but easy to explain. I assume that being Palestinian gives them a certain - very one sided perspective on the conflict because they probably perceive Israel as an evil colonialist terror State that has been oppressing and killing them for decades.
Probably the same as all the Jewish and Christian people internationally that celebrate and monetarily and militarily support the Israeli apartheid regime even as they would kill innocents, cut off water and supplies, and kill journalists. ESH.
Palestinian citizens are given supplies by the IDF. I always found accusations of cutting supplies to citizens very uninformed.
People also conveniently ignore that the Palestinians have been getting Israeli and international aid for decades that was supposed to go into building infrastructure like power plants and water treatment facilities. Instead the money went straight into the pockets of the Fatah/PLO and Israel up to this very day has been supplying power and water to Gaza and West Bank. The Palestinian leadership was corrupt as fuck.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA. Even in towns and villages which are connected to the water network, the taps often run dry.
[…]
In Gaza, some 90-95 per cent of the water supply is contaminated and unfit for human consumption. Israel does not allow water to be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza, and Gaza’s only fresh water resource, the Coastal Aquifer, is insufficient for the needs of the population and is being increasingly depleted by over-extraction and contaminated by sewage and seawater infiltration.
The resulting disparity in access to water between Israelis and Palestinians is truly staggering. Water consumption by Israelis is at least four times that of Palestinians living in the OPT. Palestinians consume on average 73 litres of water a day per person, which is well below the World Health Organization’s (WHO) recommended daily minimum of 100 litres per capita. In many herding communities in the West Bank, the water consumption for thousands of Palestinians is as low as 20 litres per person a day, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). By contrast, an average Israeli consumes approximately 300 litres of water a day.
leftists dont like to admit they’re not immune to propaganda
Try being gay or trans in Gaza. And see how awesome cool 😎 the Palestinians are.
Mass genocide is OK as long as they’re homophobic.
Because oppressing a people makes them more progressive and not less.
We gay people must provide the palestinians with clean drinking water, and this will change hearts and minds 🏳️⚧️🙆♀️
No it won’t. You’ll be stoned for being gay just the same.
I love getting stoned legalize gay weed baby 💋
Not gonna lie, I’d be up for some gay weed right now
Fair warning: Gay weed makes one susceptible to singing Lady Gaga songs.
Gay weed, Lady Gaga, no more power in Gaza.
Try being a Palestinian in Gaza and see how awesome and cool Israel is. Being pro gay doesn’t change who’s the oppressor and who is oppressed.
I agree in general, but what an image choice for the Jewish people. Hassidics are far far less awesome and far far more right wing themselves.
Yeah, it’s like picturing a Christian man wearing a maga hat, camo pants and a wifebeater he justifies the name of, surrounded by a fearfully obedient family. Like “Christian people are awesome!”
Hasidics consider the average conservative “too liberal”.
Sadly this is the same for every religious minority group.
Most strictly conforming to rules -> most conservative -> most likely to be used in media or promotion because it’s most visible
The more visible a difference is, the more likely it is to be considered in a progressive society. Humans are pretty stupid when it comes to these things.
If only people could understand the basic concept that hating a government is possible without hating the people living there.
One of my favorite quotes:
If I have one message to give to the secular American people, it’s that the world is not divided into countries. The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don’t know each other, but we talk together and we understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same. - Marjane SatrapiDifferent situation, same idea.
Yes, but also that hating a government (or even just decisions of a government) doesn’t extend to hating people across the globe who identify with the same religion that government is using to oppress people.
(American Jew who hates what Israel is doing)
Is being a Jew more being a people or being a part of a religion?
I think that’s a question that every Jewish person would have a different answer to. For me, I’m an Atheist Jew; but religion is more than blind faith, it contains culture, values, and yes peoplehood. I like being part of a small and tight community, sharing ethical discussions and rituals with those in it.
Like most similar questions, yours comes down to semantics. How do you define religion? A people? My concern with questions like that is it can be interpreted by some maliciously. E.g. They’re not a religion like us, they’re a race and we must exterminate them.
Israel claims to be a democracy and also commits genocide.
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Democracy and genocide are separate
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Israel is by definition obviously not committing genocide, the Palestinians population is only going up
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Exactly. Hamas is a monstrous organization based on the most corrupted religious fundamentalism, but I have nothing but love for the people of Gaza.
I know that Israel has been doing nothing but brutalizing Palestinians, but Hamas shot back a few times so they’re basically the same.
I didn’t realize “doing nothing but brutalizing Palestinians” includes providing power and water to the gaza strip because the Palestinian leadership was too corrupt build power and water treatment plants with the numerous millions of dollars of international and Israeli aid earmarked for that purpose.
My dude, Palestine has been attacked by terrorists and forced to split its country in two. It’s irellevant if the terrorists then went “here, have some money you poor fucks”. They still stole the land and homes of the people living there. They still are responsible for a mass exodus, and the destruction of a nation. They still killed millions to keep that land theirs.
Don’t get it twisted. Their humanitarian efforts are not because they’re good people. They’re just so they can keep feigning legitimacy and moral superiority.
But it seems the ship has sailed and everyone’s collective mind doesn’t go back before the 1990s, so I guess fuck Palestine, what a mean thing to do, how dare you bomb the
terrorists that reside in your homescivilians.
Reminder that Hamas is widely supported by most Palestinians
53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people”
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
Calling the Israel govt “genocidal” is not fair or accurate. Israel has had military superiority over Gaza every day since it was captured in 1967. If they were genocidal, they could’ve slaughtered all the people in Gaza at any time. Instead, the population of Gaza has doubled since 1967. If you want to know what a real genocidal regime looks like, imagine the situation were reversed and Hamas had overwhelming military superiority over Israel. Imagine Hamas had tanks, F-16s, F-35s, and Apache helicopters. What would happen? The genocide would start immediately. Hamas would be slaughtering civilians en masse. No restraint. No negotiations. True Genocide.
Before you ask, I’m not Jewish and I’m not defending Israeli atrocities. I just think this is an extremely simplistic and unfair characterization of Israel.
The language lacks a nuance in between “intentional mass slaughter” and “systematic eradication and displacement of ethnic group.”
Both are classed as genocide by international conventions, even if in our heads they seem very different.
I think that’s why often genocide is used for the former and ethnic cleansing for the latter, which makes some form of sense since, as you said, there appears to be a difference.
I’m not trying to lessen the evil of what either is because I don’t believe in ‘which is more evil’ contests, just that, for categorization purposes, maybe that is needed.
If a bunch of refugees flee roaming Jewish folk running around trying to murder them (like Muslims fled India and Hindus fled Pakistan during Partition as folks of each religion roamed around trying to murder people of the minority faith) in 1948 and refugees flee the 1967 war, fearing for their safety, and then they’re not allowed to return to their homes, that’s ethnic cleansing. If you’re constantly being pushed off your land and your home in order to be replaced by settlers of another faith, that’s also ethnic cleansing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight
P.S. Fuck the British (of that time) and their fucking imperialism.
And fuck the Hindus and Muslims and Jews who participated in the ethnic cleansing.
UN convention on Genocide: “Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part.” I think it’s reasonable to argue that applies to Istael’s treatment of Palestine.
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Gee do you think the population may have doubled partially because of all the ethnic cleansing that the Israeli gov (or settlers with the gov’s implicit support) have done in places those people used to live?
No, those people simply had kids.
You haven’t heard of the illegal Israeli settlements? You haven’t heard about the forced removal of Palestinian homes?
Religions suck. They’re the root of all problems.
They aren’t the root, but they’re a strong enabler
A lot of the times they are precisely the root
Are they the root, or are they a justification? Seems like a pretty reductive take, to be honest.
Wars have been occurring for a long time, and generally a desire for resources (including control over people) is a leading cause. Religion is an easy thing to use to get people to lay their lives on the line for you if they already have that belief. Equally it’s an easy scapegoat for anti-religious people to blame wars on as well.
This conflict isn’t just about religion. If it was then Israel’s neighbours probably would have got involved as well.
Interesting take after about a century of World Wars, Cold War and other global conflicts that where mostly not about religion at all.
Not really like I have seen religion actually work in making a society kind and in many places religion is the culture so without it those cultures would simply dissolve honestly I say religion is kinda like guns it can be used for good things and they both can be corrupted by bad people and used for bad things at the end of the day there are some shit people out there that want nothing but power and they see religions as a way to control people
Religion is stupid and causes way to many issues. And religion has always been a way to control people it’s literally why it was invented.
By that logic you can say government is stupid and only exist to control folks and what about culture is that also stupid
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I don’t think so. The religions are an easy way to legitimate wars but they are not the first reason for them. (And look at Buddhism. They found a way to a healthy lifestyle. ~Fake News. I didn’t know what happend in Myanmar and Burma for example.)
And look at Buddhism. They found a way to a healthy lifestyle.
Unfortunately even Buddhist aren’t perfect. Just look what’s going on in Burma/Myanmar.
But regardless it’s correct that Religion often is used as a tool for parties to gain and exercise political power.
it’s a good way to create division. especially between two people who have more socio economically in common then they do with the ruling elites.
Yeah, i should have left that part out. Sorry.
No worries, it’s a something I think a lot of people don’t know so it’s good to talk about.
In this case it literally is the cause. Israel was founded on this land because of the religious ties to this exact place.
Ok, I didn’t know that.
That’s okay. I thought the same thing before. That Buddhism was the least of the worst because of their anti violence stance. But it turns out religion is religion.
That’s a spicy take. I’m curious to see how that works out for you.
Conflating Zionism and Judaism is anti-Semitism. Jewish people are overwhelmingly against the settler colonialist apartheid regime of Israel.
Judaism has two meanings - religious and ethnic. (Nearly) all religious Jews belong to the Jewish ethnicity, but not all ethnic Jews are religious. In Israel, the best indicator if someone supports the occupation in the Palestinian territories is religion. What you call Zionism (“the settler colonialist apartheid”) is mainly a religious movement. That’s not to say religious Jews = bad. But a huge part of the problem is religious.
In fact, Jews are the least religious ethnic group worldwide. Something like 70% are atheist or agnostic iirc
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There’s rarely a simple “good guy” or “bad guy”, but the situation has clear causes that need to be acknowledged and addressed for the conflict to ever cease. The core problem right now is that the Palestinians are an aggrieved population that are denied basic human rights and political self-determination, resulting from the post-Holocaust reaction to grant swaths of land to the global Jewish population guarantee them political self-determination. Since then there’s a problem of political opportunists and, especially on the Israeli side, corporate interests, that benefit from the conflict itself and fostering extreme viewpoints based on antagonizing opposite sides of the conflict. There has to be a cultural migration towards non-antagonism, guaranteeing human rights for the Palestinians, de-escalating the conflict, and understanding that the core questions of each group’s identity basically boil down to ideological and religious allegiances that are more based on history/tradition than in good sense, since the whole us-vs-them tete-a-tete is ultimately based on these arbitrary (nonsensical) group identities in the first place. That all being said, the reason Israel so commonly is depicted as the “bad guy” in the conflict is because militarily, politically, economically, they have the upper hand on all fronts, and those facts express themselves in the overall death count in the conflict since its beginning, which is heavily weighted against the Palestinians.
… Well said.
I remember once upon a time in reddit I’d read insightful and nuanced comments like this all the time. The descent into the toilet bowl happened so gradually that you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.
Thank you. Yes, I definitely know that feeling.
I hear this argument a lot.
And following your thread. How would you suggest Palestinians free themselves from the prison they’re all living in?
Or should they just be content with their lot?
Conflict is messy. People die. The nature of assymetric warfare necessitates a specific kind of fighting. And that’s what this is, really. Unless the Palestinians have bunkers full of modern military hardware they can use to go toe to toe with Israel with.
But maybe there’s a better way. So what is it?
Killing 250 civilians by targeting a music festival and slitting the throats of civilians on the street and spitting on their corpses isn’t a result of conflict being “messy”. Stop justifying deliberate and systematic terrorist activity
Yes it is.
Assymetric warfare is ugly as fuck because it has to be. And this conflict is assymetric as hell.
Both sides are trying to demoralize the enemy to gain what they want. War is diplomacy when all other methods have failed after all.
Unless Israel or the =est of the world wants to give Palestine an enormous cache of high tech weaponry they’ll fight like this because because it’s one of the few ways for them TO fight.
So they commit atrocities and Israel commits atrocities and round and round it goes
Saying war is messy is one of those things. Like “friendly fire”. Like all language describing all forms of war it fails utterly to convey the senselessness and inhumanity of the darkest parts of our nature.
There are no good sides of bad sides in this conflict. Each side is both, and the bitter reality is that a state of war or armed conflict is by its very nature atrocious. There’s just the desd, the living. And those who have been left behind.
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The better way is to not make memes they fully blame only one side.
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Your first sentence captures it. All of this is driven by ignorance and religion, it’s the same shit that’s plagued that part of the world for generations
You don’t think the massive poverty, starvation, and lack of access to water and sanitation might play into it too?
The lack of progress caused by one problem is wholly responsible for the other.
Israel controls all of the water, food, and resources going in and out of Palestine. The condition of Palestine has been inflicted on them.
Am I the only one suspicious about the timing of this attack? Right on the time Netanyahu is under extreme pressure at home a major war comes out of his ass.
Can’t help but notice everybody loses with this war, except him. He’s the only one that takes advantage of this situation. Not Israel, not Hamas and sure as hell not the Palestinians.
There’s a stench here. Something is not right.
Is this really a win for Netanyahu though? His intelligence branch really fucked up big time. Real winner is probably any far-right groups looking for an opportunity to spout even more nationalistic bullshit, causing even more violence.
I thought Netanyahu and Likud are the far right?
His intelligence branch really fucked up big time
I agree. Almost like it was on purpose.
Though his tough guy appearance suffered a setback all he has to do is make the enemy seem greater than he is. “I did the best I could but these Palestinians are treacherous animals, I was too lenient. No more mr. Nice guy”.
Result, he has an excuse to go all-in against Palestine and all he has to do his bomb them back into the stone age (which he has the means to). He’ll look even tougher and the cherry on top of the cake is he’ll use this “war” to silence any and all opposition.
This is too much of a god send to Netanyahu to have been on accident.
This is too much of a god send to Netanyahu to have been on accident.
The idea that someone benefiting from a catastrophe means they must be involved in it is insane. After 9/11, sales of “Only Time” by Enya went way up. The whole country was in a panic and wanted to listen to soothing music. Since Enya benefited from 9/11, by your logic, she must’ve been involved.
you: There’s a stench here. Something is not right.
also you: This is too much of a god send to Enya to have been on accident.
I think it’s funny how people went from “something doesn’t feel right” to “Netanyahu was the mastermind” in less than a second.
Hamas did this of their own volition, I’m not questioning. I’m questioning though, how vulnerable Israel was to this attack and how Mossad never saw this coming.
People question the timing of the attack and hint at larger conspiracies EVERY TIME there’s a terrorist attack. They did it on 9/11. They did it on 7/11. They will always do this and it will always be stupid.
I dislike Netanyahu, but it is simply insane to think Netanyahu coordinated an attack of this scale with his good buddies Hamas. Please seek help.
it is simply insane to think Netanyahu coordinated an attack of this scale with his good buddies Hamas
Yes it is. And you’re the one who came up with that. I never said anything of the like.
To be fair, Netanyahu is always under extreme pressure at home. He’s a terrible statist and a horrible person.
Israel and Syria were about to sign a peace treaty.
I think you mean Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Yes, they have been pressured to do this. IDF and random settlement Jews have literally been harassing Muslims praying in Jerusalem. They have been seen pushing women while praying and stepping on people at least 5 days straight.
The one other winner is Iran, but ya, I did find it really strangely timed.
I rolled my eyes as soon as I saw the headline.
Also on the 50 year anniversary of another attack that happened on a Jewish holiday.
I hate to say this, but sukkot is a tactically advantageous time to attack. It’s celebrated by sleeping under temporary booths with sparse natural cover. If you want to attack, waiting until the people you want to attack are no longer protected by a roof makes sense.
Roofs only marginally help with the rockets. The bunkers in the buildings are where people go when the sirens go off. Shouldn’t be much harder to get to them from your back yard / porch.
A lot of people are away from home though
Maybe the plan was to keep on poking and hope for a reaction and then lunch a police action to show strength, and repeat. This is the playbook of Netanyahu after all no?
So it makes sense he would know how to best react to this.
And’s he’s not above killing Israelis to get his way. Just ask Sharon or Perez.
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loose = opposite of tight
lose = opposite of win
Corrected
Auto correction is a thing. And so are people who don’t speak English natively, though I do know the difference between loose and lose.
Uhhh did you not see they’re already talking about forming a new unity government and ousting him after stabilizing the security situation? That’s hardly a win for the president running on the phrase “I’m the only one strong enough to protect you!” Something similar happened after the yom Kippur attacks 50 years ago where the current president was basically squeezed out of the government once the situation wasn’t so dire.
I hope you’re right. But I’m afraid he’ll know how to play hos cards. If he does, he’ll be untouchable and democracy in Israel is doomed. And the Palestinians too, that goes without saying.
I’ve been awake too long, but isn’t murdering infidels and blowing up thousands of years of culture so you can seize a land promised to you by an invisible omnipotent being that only important powerful people can talk to kind of like the Crusades?
I could be wrong. I’m an illiterate pagan. I find religious expression hugging trees and doing a number of other activities in the nude.
I want to join your religion. Tell me who to smite and they will be smitten
Smote
If “smitten” was intentional, it’s kinda funny
It’s a religion of love and kindness.
It’s a Homer Simpson line
smought
Oh the desolation
Tbh, the concept doesn’t require a specific religion or even any religion at all to work.
Christians can do that, so can Jews, Muslims, Hindi or any other religion. Or Marxists or Capitalists, Nazis or Brits, Americans or Russians.
In general, large organisations (countries, companies, religions, …) that want to gain money/power through violence usually pick a random ideology or motive to do so, because it helps to justify the act and thus motivates soldiers/fighters and potential recruits.
But the justification is never the actual reason. The reason is to increase money and power.
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You are also not wrong. It’s a damn shame when anybody has to be relocated against their will. I wish I had answers, I just wish we would stop throwing larger and larger rocks at each other.
Love these over simplified, deep fried karma farms. I’m so cool let me vote up or down.
I will updoot your comment so I don’t have to choose a side.
This part of the image has me dying. The cutesy simplistic art style would fit in a kindergarten class but it’s about war crimes lmao.
“Sorry Sophie, January is spelt with a J for jam, not G for genocide.”
In my opinion this is an “everyone sucks here” situation and no one knows how to approach it as a result.
Maybe stop killing each other and take it from there? No? More rockets and human rights abuse? Yeah that’ll work…
Yeah, it’s gotten to a point where the divide is so deep and so old and there has been so much slaughter on each side that nobody is ever going to feel like “things are fair now.“ Both groups have committed atrocities, both groups have been victims of atrocities, and it’s just become a vendetta at this point with endless retaliation.
I don’t know what the answer is to be honest.
I’d love to watch the chaos unfold if they were made sure the civilians were safe. Azerbaijan achieved that, I don’t know why Israel and Palestine can’t.
Hamas doesn’t want to give up using their own people as human shields (not to mention the hostages they now have) and putting military facilities in immediate proximity to mosques and hospitals, because they enjoy a propaganda advantage when the mosques and hospitals are collateral damage. The Gaza Strip could have had it’s own power and water plants decades ago if the political leadership used the Israeli and international aid for building such facilities instead of pocketing it.
In my opinion this is an “everyone sucks here” situation and no one knows how to approach it as a result.
Not to mention that for the hardliners who are in charge of the whole situation on both sides are benefiting from an everlasting conflict to stay in power! What do they care if innocent people (theirs or the “enemies”) are dying?
That would be great for every nation that has ever existed but sadly that’s not how things work. Unsolvable conflicting interests more often than not are solved by brute force.
It’s sad that it has to be pointed out again, and again, AND AGAIN, the difference between the choices and actions of the leaders of a regime in a specific country and the entirety of a very large group of people spread over the world who share a specific religion.
I mean, the belief that “some of these people are like this hence all these people are like this” is the core building block of racism (and all the other “-isms”) so Thinking People shouldn’t need to, in this specific case, to be reminded of the difference between a country that claims itself to represent a religion (which is quite the Putinneske lie) and “every single person that believes in a specific religion”, but sadly there are way too many unthinking parrots around.
Curious the take now that Hamas and Israel are in a legit war with hamas firing thousands of rockets, invading from all fronts (air, land and sea) and taking hostages as young as children. Israel has already promised that the Gaza strip will never be the same again.
Don’t forget the forced evictions, but this is worse don’t get me wrong
Yesterday I thought this was a fair but controversial message to post after the massacre, but then today the deathtoll more than doubled and Israel is demolishing massive buildings. I feel like maybe they’ve skipped a few steps in their crusade for “retribution.” It’s not controversial at all anymore, that escalated fucking quickly.
This is generally the state’s military posture. They enact massively disproportionate collective punishment in response to any attack.
Mass incarceration, cutting off resources like power, and military action are all used. It is extremely cruel and not likely to lead to deescalation.
not likely to lead to deescalation.
If I were a cynic I’d suggest that might, perhaps, be the point.
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Where do you suggest they ‘make a base’? Gaza is the densest populated place on earth, it’s a prison colony. It’s not like there’s land separate from residential areas available in Gaza that Hamas doesn’t want to use, any plot possible to build on has already been built on.
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Reread your own comment genius.You said it was legitimate to target civilian areas because Hamas ‘made its base’ among civilians. Even accepting your premise that Hamas is running a terrorist operation, it’s still a war crime to bomb civilian targets the way Israel does.
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Interesting for an Israel supporter to raise international law. You know that occupation and annexation, forced removal of the local population and replacing them with your own population are all prohibited under international law right? And that the occupied population has the right to resist by any means, including violence? So why would you call Palestinian resistance to occupation terrorism then? It’s very much legitimate use of violence then, under international law.
But that’s literally the way villains behave in the movies.
Your comment almost reads as satire it’s so ridiculous. If there is any chance of civilians in the building:
Establish surveillance around the building. Israel has surveillance companies that work as contractors for other nation’s military, including the USA. Surround the building, entrench soldiers, send in some sort of communication equipment (even just throwing in a walkie talkie), negotiate food and water as needed but generally starve them out. As a last resort, move troops through the building.
If there is no chance of civilians in the building:
Establish surveillance around the building. If no structural damage exists: move troops through the building.
What Israel does:
Bomb everything within 40m. Leave nothing intact.
