It’s all crocodile tears. Where were they when thousands of Palestinian children were murdered since the inception of “Israel”? Liberals actively support genocide. No sympathy.
I’ll say it again. Liberals support genocide. They do not view Palestinians as people. They fully, wholeheartedly support genocide. Every day they continue to breathe is an injustice.
Respectfully disagree. I’m in favor of Palestine engaging in violent resistance, but if you’re going to start making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot. By way of analogy let’s think about the carceral state trying children as adults. It’s a barbaric application of state power and violence against someone who’s brain isn’t even fully formed yet. Add to it the material disparity in power a juvenile has compared to an adult, and it becomes even more grotesque to justify violence against them or flatten culpability that way.
Yes blame their parents to some degree, and very much so the people in power in the Settler-Colonial apartheid state that is Israel, but a just solution isn’t one where ethnic cleansing occurs and anyone of Jewish decent, regardless of age or culpability, is killed or forced out of the territory. It’s a one state solution that’s not a religiously based ethno-natiolist project, but instead a pluralistic project that reconciles the history of disproportionate violence by Israel against Palestinians via restitution/reparations but still takes into account the current material reality.
I’m not even saying Palestine is obligated to avoid collateral casualties (obviously if it can be avoided, do, but don’t give up an existential fight and lose it because some might occur) -they’re engaged in a justified war of self defense. There will be foreseeable but unintended casualties as is the reality of war in a sense urban area. But I draw a strong line at you legitimizing violence against children outright, and invite you to self-crit.
Legitimizing violence against civilian children and juveniles is not a good look and I fully expect to lose half my week to this as a struggle session. Such is the nature of this site sometimes. (Uncritical support to Palestine, assuming they don’t listen to dumb Hexbear takes marking civilian children as legitimate targets)
Lmao I unfortunately have to draw a distinction between civilians in a war zone and inheritors of a monarchical state. But you did catch me out in a semantic contradiction. Such is the price of conciseness sometimes.
Contradiction indeed. “Legitimizing violence against children and juveniles is not a good look. Oh wait, no, those ones are ok to kill because of the specific power their parents had.”
Hey comrade, there’s material differences between the God-ordained ruler of an institution that takes that sort of thing seriously and children who don’t have the power of an entire state (and the implied entitlement over the lives and labors of the literal serfs it contains) as part of their inheritance. Sorry you’re missing the forest for the trees here, but that’s not on me. Are the children of monarchs more culpable than kids of civilians? No, probably not. Are they a greater material risk/threat by an exponential factor? Yes absolutely.
There are material differences pointed out by ComradeCmdrPiggy that you conveniently ignored to make a blanket statement like “making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot.” Turns out, you just draw the line at the killing of children in different material circumstances than both I and ComradeCmdrPiggy do. And your lines have more to do with some vague future potential than the actual immediate threat to those fighting for the liberation of their people. You can say I’m missing the forest for the trees, but by your own admission, you’re the one contradicting yourself.
Keyword, semantic contradiction. If you’re going to take my good grace acknowledgement of unspecificity as inherently contradictory in my intent then you’re not engaging in good faith and I invite you to fuck off. I’m not interested in re-litigating the entire Romanov struggle session. Accept my ‘mea culpa’ and move on to matters affecting actual children today instead of literally events from over 100 years ago please. Put your guns away comrade, we’re on the same side today.
Consider this a response to both your comments under mine and @a_blanqui_slate@hexbear.net’s contributions so far. I endorse their good humor and recognition of the futility of resorting to debate-broism in this moment/place.
Just because you started (and were on the correct side) of that struggle session doesn’t make you the arbiter of what gets discussed, weirdo. This IS the wrong place to bring up the Romanov kids struggle session, as you did. But pointing out the contradiction (which tbf he did himself point out as well) in someone’s arguments about what’s happening right now is not doing that.
ComradeCmdrPiggy isn’t wrong - if a 15 year-old Israeli kid is, for example, pointing a gun at a Palestinian freedom fighter, no one should expect the Palestinian not to protect themselves and the necessary struggle for their liberation in whatever way possible. If that same kid is huddled down and simply trying not to die, but is present because their parents are colonizers, killing that kid would be fucking heinous. Someone enters this conversation with the understandable and justifiable take of “I’m in favor of Palestine engaging in violent resistance, but if you’re going to start making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot.” That’s great, but then that person proceeds to say “well if that huddled, non-threatening, prisoner kid might inherit a dangerous position, they’re fair game. Scratch what I said earlier about apologisms for violence against teenagers being bad.” Pointing out the fact they’ve completely undermined themselves with respect to what they’re saying about this conflict right now isn’t just fair game, it’s completely relevant and on topic.
Pointing out the fact they’ve completely undermined themselves with respect to what they’re saying about this conflict conflict right now isn’t just fair game, it’s completely relevant and on topic.
It doesn’t though, cause it’s easily fixed with an ad hoc carve out, and in order to explore whether or not that ad hoc carve out stands up to scrutiny will, in substantial effect, involve reopening the Romanov struggle session and the justifications within it. Something both of us agreed shouldn’t happen.
Kids die in war, it’s one of the reasons that we should oppose unjust war (and look for peaceful options of avoiding conflicts). Israel brought this war to palestine, not hamas. We can feel sorry for those kids, but the blame is entirely on the Zionist entity
deleted by creator
It’s all crocodile tears. Where were they when thousands of Palestinian children were murdered since the inception of “Israel”? Liberals actively support genocide. No sympathy.
I’ll say it again. Liberals support genocide. They do not view Palestinians as people. They fully, wholeheartedly support genocide. Every day they continue to breathe is an injustice.
deleted by creator
The settlers should send their kids back to Philadelphia
deleted by creator
I was referencing that Bibi grew up in Philadelphia
deleted by creator
Respectfully disagree. I’m in favor of Palestine engaging in violent resistance, but if you’re going to start making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot. By way of analogy let’s think about the carceral state trying children as adults. It’s a barbaric application of state power and violence against someone who’s brain isn’t even fully formed yet. Add to it the material disparity in power a juvenile has compared to an adult, and it becomes even more grotesque to justify violence against them or flatten culpability that way.
Yes blame their parents to some degree, and very much so the people in power in the Settler-Colonial apartheid state that is Israel, but a just solution isn’t one where ethnic cleansing occurs and anyone of Jewish decent, regardless of age or culpability, is killed or forced out of the territory. It’s a one state solution that’s not a religiously based ethno-natiolist project, but instead a pluralistic project that reconciles the history of disproportionate violence by Israel against Palestinians via restitution/reparations but still takes into account the current material reality.
I’m not even saying Palestine is obligated to avoid collateral casualties (obviously if it can be avoided, do, but don’t give up an existential fight and lose it because some might occur) -they’re engaged in a justified war of self defense. There will be foreseeable but unintended casualties as is the reality of war in a sense urban area. But I draw a strong line at you legitimizing violence against children outright, and invite you to self-crit.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Legitimizing violence against civilian children and juveniles is not a good look and I fully expect to lose half my week to this as a struggle session. Such is the nature of this site sometimes. (Uncritical support to Palestine, assuming they don’t listen to dumb Hexbear takes marking civilian children as legitimate targets)
Edit for clarity
Man the Romanov children struggle session was wild.
Lmao I unfortunately have to draw a distinction between civilians in a war zone and inheritors of a monarchical state. But you did catch me out in a semantic contradiction. Such is the price of conciseness sometimes.
Contradiction indeed. “Legitimizing violence against children and juveniles is not a good look. Oh wait, no, those ones are ok to kill because of the specific power their parents had.”
Hey comrade, there’s material differences between the God-ordained ruler of an institution that takes that sort of thing seriously and children who don’t have the power of an entire state (and the implied entitlement over the lives and labors of the literal serfs it contains) as part of their inheritance. Sorry you’re missing the forest for the trees here, but that’s not on me. Are the children of monarchs more culpable than kids of civilians? No, probably not. Are they a greater material risk/threat by an exponential factor? Yes absolutely.
There are material differences pointed out by ComradeCmdrPiggy that you conveniently ignored to make a blanket statement like “making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot.” Turns out, you just draw the line at the killing of children in different material circumstances than both I and ComradeCmdrPiggy do. And your lines have more to do with some vague future potential than the actual immediate threat to those fighting for the liberation of their people. You can say I’m missing the forest for the trees, but by your own admission, you’re the one contradicting yourself.
edit: fixed a word (blanket, not blatant).
Keyword, semantic contradiction. If you’re going to take my good grace acknowledgement of unspecificity as inherently contradictory in my intent then you’re not engaging in good faith and I invite you to fuck off. I’m not interested in re-litigating the entire Romanov struggle session. Accept my ‘mea culpa’ and move on to matters affecting actual children today instead of literally events from over 100 years ago please. Put your guns away comrade, we’re on the same side today.
Consider this a response to both your comments under mine and @a_blanqui_slate@hexbear.net’s contributions so far. I endorse their good humor and recognition of the futility of resorting to debate-broism in this moment/place.
Nope nope nope I can’t do this again shut it down. I was making a joke.
Just because you started (and were on the correct side) of that struggle session doesn’t make you the arbiter of what gets discussed, weirdo. This IS the wrong place to bring up the Romanov kids struggle session, as you did. But pointing out the contradiction (which tbf he did himself point out as well) in someone’s arguments about what’s happening right now is not doing that.
ComradeCmdrPiggy isn’t wrong - if a 15 year-old Israeli kid is, for example, pointing a gun at a Palestinian freedom fighter, no one should expect the Palestinian not to protect themselves and the necessary struggle for their liberation in whatever way possible. If that same kid is huddled down and simply trying not to die, but is present because their parents are colonizers, killing that kid would be fucking heinous. Someone enters this conversation with the understandable and justifiable take of “I’m in favor of Palestine engaging in violent resistance, but if you’re going to start making apologisms for violence against teenagers you’ve lost the plot.” That’s great, but then that person proceeds to say “well if that huddled, non-threatening, prisoner kid might inherit a dangerous position, they’re fair game. Scratch what I said earlier about apologisms for violence against teenagers being bad.” Pointing out the fact they’ve completely undermined themselves with respect to what they’re saying about this conflict right now isn’t just fair game, it’s completely relevant and on topic.
It doesn’t though, cause it’s easily fixed with an ad hoc carve out, and in order to explore whether or not that ad hoc carve out stands up to scrutiny will, in substantial effect, involve reopening the Romanov struggle session and the justifications within it. Something both of us agreed shouldn’t happen.
I can’t believe you’ve done this.
Kids die in war, it’s one of the reasons that we should oppose unjust war (and look for peaceful options of avoiding conflicts). Israel brought this war to palestine, not hamas. We can feel sorry for those kids, but the blame is entirely on the Zionist entity
deleted by creator