As always, the problem with commuter trains is the last mile. If you work in the city, there is probably some form of bus or subway, but if you work in an unwalkable suburb, you’ll need an Uber for that last mile which cuts into the benefit.
I agree with you, but employers are solving that problem by leaving densely developed places for suburban and rural locations. This contributes to sprawl and compounds the complexity of the problem. All because public transit can’t solve the last mile problem.
We need adaptive infrastructure and regulated development to coincide with public transit, but at least in the USA, I might as well be talking about flying to Mars on unicorn farts.
Regulatory capture isn’t just a thing that happens, it’s the very foundation of our political system. Like a house grown from fungus, it’s not “corrupted” because the corruption is all there is.
The problem is the unwalkable suburb that doesn’t make any sense. It never made sense either.
It’s not only bad for commuting. It’s a mess for groundwater, pollution of all type (noise, microplastics, air, etc.) It has an impact on the wildlife including reproduction, on plants, etc.
It’s just a bad use of space? No, it’s bad socially by isolating people. It creates urban traps. I will stop here otherwise I will continue on the fact it’s a myth created by the capital…
surely you can bike 2 miles in the burbs? One of the upsides of suburbs being so painfully sprawly is that barely anyone lives there, so you shouldn’t have a tremendous amount of traffic on those 2 miles to the train station.
And even if you’d fear for your life biking there now, it’s not like you need to build bike paths along every little residential street to fix it, start with the largest most high-traffic roads and build your way down until people feel safe biking to the train station.
Sure, but then you have to carry your bike with you on the train. There is no workable solution to suburbia that doesn’t involve cars because it was designed and built around them. Unfortunately, they’re now home to tens of millions of people, and any quick solution would most likely end up hurting a lot of them.
Bike parking at the train stations. You bike to the train station, lock the bike up, take the train, take the second bike from the destination train station, bike to the office. See videos on how the Dutch do it. Even with multiple bikes it’s incredibly cheap in terms of money as well as climate impact compared to even the cheapest cars.
Well, in the Netherlands and at least some other EU countries most train stations have a bike rental system that works by just using a card to unlock the bike for a couple of Euros for 24 hours. So there is a possible solution.
Many people here use that system. It’s also possible to buy a (second-hand) bike and park it at the station where you need it, if you’d like.
Edit: Didn’t see the post below… but exactly that.
I think, eventually, this is where autonomous vehicles will really come into their own.
You are absolutely right that first mile/last mile is a barrier for rail travel - but imagine if we could design the station around a fleet of AV’s.
Imagine:
Your AV takes you to the station, and parks right next the platform at the exact location along the train for your seat reservation.
You wait in your nice climate controlled AV for the train to arrive - hope out and onto the train.
Meanwhile somebody else gets off the train and uses the AV you’ve just vacated to complete their journey.
These things all complement each other. Busses are great in urban areas, but they don’t work well in rural areas, they just don’t compare well vs private car when you look at generalized journey times (GJT).
Buses are also great in rural areas. If the too few people take the bus, a small parking lot in the front of the station may actually be fine and people can ride their bikes or maybe small electric cars there. No need for AV techbro shit
All these things should work on harmony. In some situations busses and bikes don’t work as well. Let’s say you are going on holiday with luggage.
The end game is to reduce the the reliance on personal cars. Right now most people feel they need their own car. Much of this is down to first mile / last mile arguments.
Long headways, and high friction interchanges are things AVs could potentially help to eliminate one day. I would actively encourage consideration of multiple pickup and drop off by those AVs - key is we probably want to get people to their doors and we need high frequencies, or ad-hoc departure times to complete with car.
Yes, exactly, this would solve the last mile problem and solve the AV problem with long-distance trips. To get there, though, you might need to make certain areas exclusively accessible via autonomous vehicles. For instance, make certain cities AV only, and free up some road space for walking and biking.
But I recognize that this is about as likely as getting everyone to stop turning green space into parking lots.
As always, the problem with commuter trains is the last mile. If you work in the city, there is probably some form of bus or subway, but if you work in an unwalkable suburb, you’ll need an Uber for that last mile which cuts into the benefit.
We shouldn’t be building unwalkable suburbs
We already did.
And continue to do so, that is what should get stopped.
There are a lot of things we shouldn’t do that we already did.
that’s not a problem with trains it’s a problem with unsustainable land use
Yeah lol
“Nobody builds suburbs you can walk in without rolling an ankle or getting hit by a car” “Yeah man that’s the fucking trains fault”
Agreed, but it still an obstacle to wider adoption of trains.
@themeatbridge @sexy_peach Commuter driving has the same ‘last mile’ problem, but it’s parking.
The photo doesn’t include the $250 million worth of carparks for those 10,000 cars that has to exist at the other end of the highway.
I agree with you, but employers are solving that problem by leaving densely developed places for suburban and rural locations. This contributes to sprawl and compounds the complexity of the problem. All because public transit can’t solve the last mile problem.
We need adaptive infrastructure and regulated development to coincide with public transit, but at least in the USA, I might as well be talking about flying to Mars on unicorn farts.
Regulatory capture isn’t just a thing that happens, it’s the very foundation of our political system. Like a house grown from fungus, it’s not “corrupted” because the corruption is all there is.
The problem is the unwalkable suburb that doesn’t make any sense. It never made sense either.
It’s not only bad for commuting. It’s a mess for groundwater, pollution of all type (noise, microplastics, air, etc.) It has an impact on the wildlife including reproduction, on plants, etc.
It’s just a bad use of space? No, it’s bad socially by isolating people. It creates urban traps. I will stop here otherwise I will continue on the fact it’s a myth created by the capital…
surely you can bike 2 miles in the burbs? One of the upsides of suburbs being so painfully sprawly is that barely anyone lives there, so you shouldn’t have a tremendous amount of traffic on those 2 miles to the train station.
And even if you’d fear for your life biking there now, it’s not like you need to build bike paths along every little residential street to fix it, start with the largest most high-traffic roads and build your way down until people feel safe biking to the train station.
Sure, but then you have to carry your bike with you on the train. There is no workable solution to suburbia that doesn’t involve cars because it was designed and built around them. Unfortunately, they’re now home to tens of millions of people, and any quick solution would most likely end up hurting a lot of them.
Bike parking at the train stations. You bike to the train station, lock the bike up, take the train, take the second bike from the destination train station, bike to the office. See videos on how the Dutch do it. Even with multiple bikes it’s incredibly cheap in terms of money as well as climate impact compared to even the cheapest cars.
Lol you could easily buy matching ebikes for less than the price of a half way reliable car these days
just park the bike???
y’all keep inventing problems that don’t exist.
Well, in the Netherlands and at least some other EU countries most train stations have a bike rental system that works by just using a card to unlock the bike for a couple of Euros for 24 hours. So there is a possible solution.
Many people here use that system. It’s also possible to buy a (second-hand) bike and park it at the station where you need it, if you’d like.
Edit: Didn’t see the post below… but exactly that.
I agree carrying the bike on the train is a problem, but there are a solutions like e-scooters and bikeshare.
Actually, you can leave a bike at the bike garage near the station or rent one on a monthly basis. That’s what they do in Japan.
does not work in the US. bike theft is too easy.
not quite, suburbs are more dangerous for bikes because cars are used to wide smooth roads and do not look for bikes.
Or just have a parking lot/garage, or bike the last mile…
My nearest bus stop is four miles away and I would definitely die if I tried to ride a bike there. These roads are crazy dangerous.
Where I live, the train station is smack in the middle of all the big employers!!
There just isn’t actual service to the station…
Why did it become unwalkable?
I think, eventually, this is where autonomous vehicles will really come into their own.
You are absolutely right that first mile/last mile is a barrier for rail travel - but imagine if we could design the station around a fleet of AV’s.
Imagine:
Your AV takes you to the station, and parks right next the platform at the exact location along the train for your seat reservation.
You wait in your nice climate controlled AV for the train to arrive - hope out and onto the train.
Meanwhile somebody else gets off the train and uses the AV you’ve just vacated to complete their journey.
May I introduce you to the mind blowing concept of buses?
These things all complement each other. Busses are great in urban areas, but they don’t work well in rural areas, they just don’t compare well vs private car when you look at generalized journey times (GJT).
Buses are also great in rural areas. If the too few people take the bus, a small parking lot in the front of the station may actually be fine and people can ride their bikes or maybe small electric cars there. No need for AV techbro shit
but why on god’s green earth would you spend the money on autotaxis rather than buses and/or bike infrastructure?
All these things should work on harmony. In some situations busses and bikes don’t work as well. Let’s say you are going on holiday with luggage.
The end game is to reduce the the reliance on personal cars. Right now most people feel they need their own car. Much of this is down to first mile / last mile arguments.
Long headways, and high friction interchanges are things AVs could potentially help to eliminate one day. I would actively encourage consideration of multiple pickup and drop off by those AVs - key is we probably want to get people to their doors and we need high frequencies, or ad-hoc departure times to complete with car.
Yes, exactly, this would solve the last mile problem and solve the AV problem with long-distance trips. To get there, though, you might need to make certain areas exclusively accessible via autonomous vehicles. For instance, make certain cities AV only, and free up some road space for walking and biking.
But I recognize that this is about as likely as getting everyone to stop turning green space into parking lots.