• Nahvi@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yes, “moderates”.

      Those of us who realize the building we all live in is old, has holes in the windows and floors, and never had an elevator installed, but would still prefer to renovate it than burn it down. Yes, we know some people are getting wet, or fell through the floor, and a few can’t even get to their rooms, but the majority of us are warm, well-fed, and mildly entertained. We definitely need to get the holes patched and we should work on some sort of lift, but burning the place down is not going to help those who are missing out now and will harm everyone else in the process.

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You know that they tear down dilapidated buildings with good reason, right? The foundation is crumbling, the floor won’t support weight and the roof is more leak than barrier.

        Trying to apply repairs to a crumbling and unsafe building is actually a great analogy for how your “moderate” bullshit is keeping most of society in a death spiral. Nice self-own.

        • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Even if we are approaching a point where a tear down would be more cost effective, we are not at a point where we can unite enough to rebuild anything from the rubble.

          Maybe pushing it any farther is risking a collapse, but I rather like being one united nation sitting at the top of lists for economic and military power, rather than 3 or 4 smaller nations barely in the top 10.

          • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            We are way past the point where a tear down is necessary to save millions of lives, never mind “cost effective”.

            sitting at the top of lists for economic and military power

            You KNOW that all that economic power belongs to the rich and the rest are poorer than most western countries, right?

            Also, celebrating military power as a virtue is some North Korea type shit, not something a modern democracy should be doing.

            • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Military power is neither inherently virtue nor vice it is a tool that can be used for good or ill. However, without it the voice of a nation becomes smaller and smaller until it becomes non-existent without the support of others.

              • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Military power is neither inherently virtue nor vice

                False. It’s an evil. Some would say a necessary evil, but that’s debatable.

                without it the voice of a nation becomes smaller and smaller until it becomes non-existent

                Bullshit. Organised murder isn’t free speech, nor does it protect free speech. It’s very often used to SUPPRESS free speech and democracy, though.

                • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  but that’s debatable.

                  Do you think Zelensky thinks military power is a useful tool? Do you think he and NATO are doing evil by defending Ukraine?

                  Putting my cards on the table; I am not the biggest fan of the US getting involved in another overseas war, even if it is only providing weapons. I am curious though how a defensive war fits into your “military power is evil” mindset.

                  Organised murder isn’t free speech

                  Having a military does not mean you have to participate in offensive wars.

                  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Do you think Zelensky thinks military power is a useful tool?

                    I think the people of Ukraine would have found it useful for Putin to not use that “tool” against them.

                    But yeah, while I’m of course on his side with regards to the war itself, I also think that Zelinski is finding emergency war powers a very useful tool to suppress political opposition and otherwise further his own political power.

                    Do you think he and NATO are doing evil by defending Ukraine?

                    Of course not, but there’d be no invasion to defend against in the first place if not for the military power of genocidal war criminals like Putin

                    I am curious though how a defensive war fits into your “military power is evil” mindset.

                    As I pointed out above, it fits fine since there would be no necessity to defend yourself against military power if not attacked with military power.

      • sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Bruh, in your analogy where are you getting the money and materials to patch up the building? It’s being hoarded by the guy that owns a giant state of the art mansion up the street that needs 0 repairs.

        And that mansion has TWO elevators.

        • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Fair question.

          In my hastily put together analogy, the rich guy would live up on the top floor which he converted to a pent house, probably with a helicopter pad. That guy like in real life is going to try to squeeze the money out of the guys a few floors down from himself. If it actually comes to a building collapse or something catastrophic, he probably tries to escape to another building.

          Really though, this analogy is probably stretched to its limit.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Why wouldn’t he escape before the building got that bad? Why wouldn’t he escape the first time someone fell through the floor?

            • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Presumably their part of the building is holding up fine. We certainly aren’t seeing a lot of rich people flee the US so far.

              Incidentally, not that it really matters, the holes in the floor were not meant to indicate the building itself was rotting away, just that the layers had worn through and need to be replaced. Basically everything after the first post has just been shoe-horned into the analogy on the fly.

        • Nahvi@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Sure, if you can get most of the residents to agree on what kind of building they want the new one to be, you might even make it happen fairly smoothly.

          As is, we have at least a half a dozen groups who each want different designs and the two largest groups aren’t even sure they want to live in the same building anymore. Those two groups have already started drawing lines down the middle of the current building and are demanding everyone pick a side. To make matters worse the other groups don’t agree with each other enough to even band together for their own defense. In the end, we will be lucky if we get a couple small condos where once a sky-rise stood.