I’d argue that Nancy Pelosy is more representative of the dems than AOC.
Well, I’d argue Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals, which most of us are not.
I’d even argue is Nancy even a dem at this point she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.
While Nancy’s actual politics may be more centrists than dem, shes still one of the old guards that must go away for any actual change in the party.
Dems are centrists.
Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.
To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.
Neoliberals don’t squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don’t see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. “free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!” Because it’s free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.
agreed. In context, they’re centrists for the States. Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world but considered extreme here by corporate media and the other government clowns.
Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world
When people say dumbass shit like this it makes me wonder what part of the world they are talking about.
All of Africa: right wing compared to America
Most of South America: right wing compared to America
Pretty much all of Asia: right wing compared to America
Middle East: lmao
Russia: lmao
Europe: about 70% right wing or similar to America with a handful of countries that might be considered left wing maybe but are sliding right as well.
The British Commonwealth: about the same as America except for the healthcare aspect.
Maybe you consider Antarctica left wing? Maybe the Oceans? Maybe the only part of the world that exists to these idiots are uber white Aryan nordic countries only? Or maybe you live in a fantasy dimension and are somehow communicating to us through a wormhole via Lemmy.
Europe is absolutely not as you describe. That’s what the media feeds you in North America.
I totally agree with you she must go, she’s part of the let’s maintain the status quo dems.
she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.
And that perfectly represents the party as a whole.
You know “centrist” is not a political party, right? Fuckin kids these days, what are they teaching you…
Literally nothing considering I’m an adult these days. But how’s being a smug ass hat been going for ya?
Better than not being one, I guess
That’s a funny take. The former speaker of the house who hand selected her replacement and was the leader of the Democratic caucus for more than a decade, and you’re basically calling them a DINO
MAGA regularly calls Mitch McConnell a RINO. Why should we handle Nancy any differently?
Right, lol. I guess the other user thought they had me in some sort of gotcha moment.
You guys are so right, maga does it, that means it’s correct
/S
It means that a true Democrat or Republican is one who represents the views of their constituents. Not who holds the reins of power in their respective parties. This is a valid definition.
I don’t believe that is a valid definition. A good politician is someone who represents the views of their constituents. A true Democrat (or whatever party) is someone who represents the views of the party. The views of the party may be influenced by party candidates on behalf of their constituents, but those views are decided upon by a group of people that aren’t elected by a public ballot and have no obligation to democratic voters. If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party (but we’re kinda fucked with that right now). If you’re talking about who represents the views of the democratic party, it’s difficult to find someone who represents them better than Pelosi.
The centers of both parties are functionally allies, the power structure of the Democratic party despises the kind of progressive politics AOC and Bernie do far more than the Republicans they claim to oppose even when those Republicans are literal out in the open fascists. Chuck Shumer is exhibit A and will become a historical touchstone for discussions about how neoliberalism always in the end sets up the conditions for fascism and then pathetically collapses in the crucial moment of resistance against fascism.
Fuck that, both parties need to go, how many times has the Democratic party laughed in the face of Bernie as they blatantly undermined him?
No, I treat Republicans as an existential threat, which means I also logically see the entrenched power structures of the Democrats that are happy to lose to Republicans rather than evolve, as an existential threat.
Pelosi is a Democrat through and through, AOC and Bernie are Democrats because they have no choice in the status quo.
Weird how evolution takes time.
Actually one of the biggest arguments in geology/evolutionary biology is whether evolution tends to be a slow, continous steady process or whether it happens in explosive spurts seperated by periods of little evolution.
There is abundant evidence that both happens, so your metaphor is tenous at best.
Anyone that has to hear “the two parties are not the same” is too stupid to change their tiny little mind and recognize it.
I once got a death threat here on lemmy for suggesting that democrats were better than Republicans. That was interesting to say the least
You’re not wrong. Apparently the truth stung someone pretty hard.
Both parties are certainly not the same, however both parties have a lot of the same interests. The truth is establishment Democrats have very little personal reason to fight back against these insane right wing policies because they personally benefit from them; and that is the singular truth that makes our current political climate so dangerous.
While they don’t have any reason too fight back however, they also will not generally propose these policies. They just won’t block them, so the solution is simple, prevent these policies from being proposed.
However lots of people want to see the world in black and white and just want to conflate concepts like this with something that has no nuance to it like “both parties are the same” and blindly parrot that statement without stopping to analyze what it’s really talking about and that’s a huge issue since it disenfranchises more vulnerable people. I suspect blanket statements like this are likely a large contributor to the US’ low voter participation, and i wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them originated from foreign influence.
They have to live with the fact they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold, it’s also the only thing their stupid little minds can use to go on without acknowledging their conscience that wants them to yeet themselves out a window.
They have to live with the fact they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold,
They think Thalmann did nothing wrong, so if anything, they celebrate that they didn’t vote as the next Hitler takes hold.
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Sure, one “party” is fascist and the other “party” is collaborators. Lots of differences to point out there.
Yawn.
Yet another goon who hasn’t bothered looking up both party’s voting history or criminal conviction history.
Do your homework.
He did do his homework. He’s not saying this shit out of ignorance but out of malice. He’s a Russian shill.
You begin to recognize the usernames.
Boost’ user tagging feature has made my Lemmy experience so much better. The tag pops out so it’s the first thing I notice before even reading the reply so I know to prepare myself and not take it seriously if it’s tagged as a troll or whatever. Easier than remembering who said what in previous posts.
🤮 this got me to try it out and there’s banner ads at the bottom of every post
Voyager has tagging too, and it’s ad-free!
Oh, that’s awesome! It didn’t when I switched from it to boost, otherwise I would’ve stuck with that.
Ah, dunno about that, sorry. Been using it for a few years, since it was also a reddit app and I just paid for the ad free version
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I’m guessing you’re not a native English speaker?
No, I just misread the first time. Fair enough.
If only the democrats actually listened to AOC and Sanders.
But they don’t.
“But what if we compromised with them and our donors, and then compromised with the Republicans, and then put on our shocked pikachu face when the Republicans don’t compromise with us in turn???”
Legit, the second half of the problem is related to our gerontocracy. These fucking dinosaurs are still acting like it’s the 1970s and 1980s, when they first came to power.
Oh I’m sure they’ll listen to them right up until the point where they find another member of the Clinton family that hasn’t had their turn yet.
Chelsea Clinton’s available! :/
Chelsea/Hunter 2028. Might as well just build the gas chambers now.
Nah, they’re going to run another candidate who can finally appeal to Republicans, one who has bipartisan experience, having run in the past on both sides of the aisle. Say hello to 2028 Democratic presidential nominee David Duke!
Alternatively they’ll give Hilary another crack at it, with Chelsea has her running mate.
“Clinton-Clinton 2028: How badly do you want the Fascists out?”
Can we stop putting AOC and Sanders as Democrats please. At least these two are vocal.
Sanders is not even a member of the Democratic Party.
AOC is an official representing the democratic party, and Sanders is a regestered independent
Politics aside, I get irrationally angry whenever I see people wear masks in that manner. I immediately think they eat crayons in their past time. I know it is a judgemental thing, but holy shit was it a frustrating, daily sight during covid and it made Mr sometimes question why the fuck I even bothered doing things the right way.
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I mean, some people were definitely like that, but I also just saw a lot of people who clearly didn’t understand the concept of the mask. I can only speak for my own country of course, but over here the nay sayers were a very small, yet loud minority, while the vast majority of people did their best to wear the masks. Most of them just hadn’t recieved proper instructions on how to use it.
I was lucky that we have a family member who is a nurse, so in our household, we know how to use the masks correctly, and let me tell you - fucking nobody used the masks correctly. Not even the most vehement mask users who talked about the importance of masks did it correctly. I was shown how to do it by a professional and even I did it wrong multiple times because you just kinda forget when you’re busy, on the go or tired af after a long day, that you are under no circumstances supposed to touch the mask itself. The second you do, you have compromised the effect of the mask and you have contaminated your fingers.
Do you know how many times a day I saw people adjust their masks with their fingers, scratching their face underneath the mask, securing the mask over the nose, reusing the same mask over and over and not disinfect their hands at any point, but scratching and then pick items up at the store and put them down again?
I did it myself. A single mindless moment and you have compromised the effect of the mask. And don’t get me started on the well-meaning souls who decided to sow masks without a clue about filters or anything like that.
This is something I just couldn’t talk with people about during corona because everybody were fucking hysterical about covid. The smallest attempt to have a discussion was seen as suddenly I was an anti vaxxer and a conspiracy theorist, when all I ever said was that I didn’t think the masks worked as well as people thought they did. They definitely had a positive effect on stopping the spreading cobbled with the distancing and the washing of hands. All of that contributed positively to it. But my god. I couldn’t deal with people bearly wearing their masks properly (under the nose or even under the fucking chin, my dude) or reusing the same mask over and over. I knew most people didn’t do it on purpose, but it really grinded my friggin gears to see them whenever I was out shopping groceries. Especially early on when we still didn’t know how dangerous covid was and I was being super anal about using the masks correctly and super paranoid about catching it and passing it on to someone with a weak immune system. And then you walk past some old person with the mask under the nose one minute and a group of teens having the mask hanging around their chin for later use the next. I had colleagues who kept used masks in their pockets and pulled them out for a quick use whenever they had to run errands. Then back in the pocket it went.
But what can you do? People were just trying to live their lives and adjust to the changes and most of them did the best they could even if they completely missed the point of the masks. And I mean, you just can’t expect anyone to use the masks the way medical personal do. Especially not out in the wild where life is messy. So in that sense I kinda learned to let it go, but I still have this nam-like flashback everytime I see someone with a mask underneath their nose.
Haven’t seen that shit for so long and when I saw that picture I was back in the jungle, lol.
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Yeah I’m sorry. I always try to be short when I write and I always fail Dx you’re not obligated to read all that, my friend. It’s just me babbling about masks haha
Or when you asked them a question, and to hear better they pulled down their masks lol
That’s literally the opposite of irrational anger.
I mean, I want to give people the benefit of the doubt when I see them wear masks wrong, but instead I immediately get angry at them and think they are stupid, when that might not be the case. That’s what I mean about getting irrationally angry. Most people who wear masks wrong don’t do it out of malice, but out of ignorance, so me having an emotional reaction like that is irrational.
You always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Some guy has a gun out in a bank, it would be nice and make you feel more safe to think he’s just putting it in a deposit box.
I’m sorry for laughing, but that is such a crazy example to anyone outside of the US xD I think if I saw anyone in my country casually carrying a gun anywhere I would at first assume it is a toy gun and if it is confirmed to be real, I would be very confused and scared because that shit doesn’t happen where I live and is extremely abnormal.
A mask off is equivalent to a real gun in this analogy.
Feeling safe is just ignoring reality sometimes.
AOC is not a good representation of the democrats. Obama, Biden, Pelosi, and Gavin Newsom are better reps for the party. With the things AOC values, it feels she only identifies as Democrat in order to be on the Democrat ballot. AOC has been touring with Bernie. Bernie doesn’t even identify with the Democratic Party, but still came dangerously close (according to the Dems) to being the elect instead of Biden back in 2019-2020. The Democratic Party did not like that. The dems want to keep the working class down. The republicans want to squash the working class and more into submission.
I think the people that align with the Democratic Party were feeling a lot of this between late 2019 - mid 2020.
Obama, Biden, Pelosi, and Gavin Newsom
Obama being a proponent of universal healthcare back in 2008, Biden a supporter of the Green New Deal, and Newsom part of a push for universal healthcare in Cali?
I don’t mean to say that any of this is enough. I don’t mean to say that the Dems aren’t dragging their fucking feet and 10 years too late on every goddamn issue; I’m not saying that the system is working or that we don’t need a new system.
But anyone who says that the two parties are the same or indistinguishable in terms of results or ideals is selling a crock of fascist-flavored shit. Apathy and non-participation benefits conservatives.
You’re screaming into the void here on Lemmy. All we have are tankies and teenagers that want Amazon two-day shipping on their “RevolutionTM” and are throwing a crying temper tantrum that the majority of the American public don’t agree with them.
So they bitch about the Dems who are the only ones actually trying to solve the problem for not doing it fast enough while they themselves do literally nothing to solve any actual problems and giving the Republicans, the party that is actually causing all the problems, a complete free pass.
The tankies are the toddler throwing a tantrum on the floor of a toy store. The Dems are their mom who isn’t buying them the Xbox game they want and the Republicans are the store owners hiking up the price of the game to make it unaffordable to all but the extremely wealthy. Their little baby brains can only think to whine and cry and blame their mom because they have no understanding of the reality behind, well… anything really.
Thank you for your response. I don’t typically post comments on any social media because I feel it is not worth it. There is a movement growing in the USA rn, and most people on Social Media are not actively being a part of it. We can end the things that have happened. It will take time.
So they bitch about the Dems who are the only ones actually trying to solve the problem for not doing it fast enough while they themselves do literally nothing to solve any actual problems and giving the Republicans, the party that is actually causing all the problems, a complete free pass.
I’ve been starting to suspect that they give MAGA a free pass because MAGA is just too powerful and scary for them.
Take on the Democrats, you get tons of sweet internet clout. Take on MAGA, you might disappear and end up in a prison in El Salvador.
Why put all that risk into punching up, when you can punch horizontally and still pretend you’re a revolutionary.
This is very refreshing to read.
You’re trying to talk sense to people of an extremist ‘comply or die’ style ideology here. Proper leftists have empathy enough for the well-being of their fellow humans and the planet we live on to recognize that simply burning everything to the ground benefits nobody. What we have in this place for the most part are keyboard commandos who wouldn’t have the first clue what to do in the event of a full societical collapse.
AOC and Bernie should just start their own party and drive the establishment democrats out if business.
MTG is just there for the lols. She was rich before she got elected and gotten even richer since. She’a there to pass out the matches and watch the world burn
Yeah for sure AOC represent Democrats 😂😂😂. They are all behind her and sure will let her run for primary and win like they did with Bernie Sanders. LMAO
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Did Bernie not run in the primary? I remember him having his ass handed to him in my state.
I phone banked for him on his 2 most possible runs. He’s way too old. AOC is the only half decent insider option in all of DC now.
After a lifetime of voting for the lesser evil to make the ship sink a little slower, voting blue from Kerry to Harris in the general after primarying for the most leftwing candidate available, and feeling dirty every time, either they can give me a candidate that isn’t actively choking as they fellate oligarch dick, or I’ll watch it all burn from home.
I guess from my perspective you still realised they were still the lesser of two evils. You are right the system is fucked and the Democrats did not do enough to change the status quo particularly in terms of correcting the wealth disparity we see now.
Let’s hope the US actually have a chance at another fair election with a candidate you deserve because as it looks right now everyday the current fascist regime that is Trump administration moves towards a future where you may not get that chance.
Democrats simply have no levers to pull to make wholesale changes. I remember Hillary attempting to engage with healthcare reform during her time as First Lady and being pilloried for it. Obama’s administration couldn’t muster nearly enough votes to enact single-payer healthcare and had to opt for a market based solution that just eked through congress, only to be lambasted by the modern left for it.
Many around these parts act as if Democrats can just enact reforms by fiat and do not answer to a largely centrist, if not conservative, constituency. A cursory examination shows this has never been the case; the center/left has always had to govern via consensus.
Now “leftists” are eating their own to a degree that leaves me often suspecting that many are little more than poorly disguised MAGA adherents bleating accelerationist nonsense. This thread and any other like it is replete with these moans of surrender, and who can be surprised? Organizing takes much more effort than vomiting into a keyboard and these folks are by and large too lazy to suss out an understanding of recent history, instead choosing to repeat the same canards (see: the conspiracy theory of independent Bernie being cheated in lieu of not being able to come close to winning the Democratic primary.)
Democrats are literally controlled-opposition
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Considering that Liberals are literally right wingers (Political Science 101) masquerading as leftists, yeah you are turds in every way.
We actually agree on something
These are wildly opposite and anyone who says AOC isn’t a real representation of DNC must also find a more GOP aligned member, like Mike Johnson or Steve Scalise. They are despicable but not all-caps-tweets kind of despicable.
AOC is the only representation of the DNC. Hope she unseats Schumer, becomes leader of the democratic party, and down the line runs for President. She will be the best president America have had.
I do not hope she runs for President next time though, as my thoughts of Americans are very low, and i believe them to be too bigoted to vote for her yet. yet.
Agree on most things but “Best President” is hard to beat when two Roosevelts are the leaders for being the most progressive. Fuck, we may never see a president again who can do so much for social causes and the People as Teddy Roosevelt did. He crushed corporate monopolies, built up the FDA from nothing, and established National Parks as a way to stop business from eating up our shared land’s natural resources.
MTG is far more welcome in her party than AOC is in hers.
The neoliberal DNC sees the Republicans as their esteemed opposition, as they are on the same take and have the same orders on Economic policy. They see spoilers like AOC, who are not on the corpo bribe train and for profound economic policy changes, as their enemy.
https://apnews.com/article/business-nancy-pelosi-congress-8685e82eb6d6e5b42413417f3d5d6775
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/15/nancy-pelosi-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-481704
The Democrats, almost all of them save a couple of spoilers, aren’t the fascists themselves, but they’ve spent the last half century enabling the fascists. The Democrats don’t care about entire industries of confidence schemes murdering Americans like our deathcare industry, they don’t care about poor kids getting a good education, and they dont care about millions of our most betrayed neighbors dying in the streets. As the bad cop Fascists brag about how much they love the schaudenfreude of the pain those people are in, the good cop neoliberals shrug “free market forces, sorry! But I do affirm your identity, homeless dying/lifesaving healthcare denied person!”
That’s why there really isn’t hope until we collapse, hopefully by our hands in revolution and not by oligarch made climate change in a couple decades. Best, best, best, best case scenario, we have a real election in 3. 5 years and the Neoliberals gain power, do NOTHING to reign in the oligarchs, income inequity, or our sociopathic, murderous capital markets as they’re gleefully paid not to do. Fascism is the takeover of the state to serve big capital’s need for ever moar, and so the table will remain set to go back on the fascist march in just another 4 years.
AOC is progressive, not a neoliberal. Saying liberals want universal healthcare is a straight up LIE
Neoliberals are not typically liberals. You can be a progressive liberal
Source: am one
No shit. I am replying to the meme which implies democrats want universal healthcare - they dont.
You worded it strangely. Liberals and aoc want uhc
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Universal health care is antithetical to both market economies and economic freedom which are both core liberal principles. Liberals cannot actively support it without also confronting the inherent contradictions within liberal ideology.
Unless you’re using the term “liberal” in the US sense of ‘anybody “left” of fascism’ in which case you’re statistically correct, but mostly due to generalization.
Well how about this I DEFINATELY %100 do agree that capitalism has a fucking problem. I believe it makes more sense to regulate harshly and have a 50s style tax on the rich than to throw baby out with water. Im liberal in the sense that HUMAN RIGHTS must take precedent no matter what part of an economic shift we’re in
Liberals cannot actively support it without also confronting the inherent contradictions within liberal ideology.
Thank you, I couldn’t have asked for a better demonstration of this point. A healthcare system that is based on the free market but that is “regulat[ed] harshly and [with] a 50s style tax on the rich” is not universal healthcare!
If you can see the issues with healthcare and can understand why universal healthcare would be a necesarry improvement then how are you still advocating for a free market solution for anything?
That baby died a long time ago, and required required constant human rights violations to keep it alive in the first place. Getting rid of the bathwater won’t bring it back or make it require less cruelty to keep alive.
I never said I was against UHC? Where do I mention anything about free market anything? Free market doesnt do shit when monopolies are allowed to run rampant. I-am-pro-human-rights-above all. About the only thing I "agree with "on with capitalist is being pro personal property but only in the sense that the gov doesnt have a right to come and take your personal shit for no reason. That does not extend to businesses and monopolistic expanse of land ownership.
I think the confusion is that it actually implies AOC, who is a Democrat, wants universal healthcare - she does.
Based on social media I have no fucking clue what I am. But I do know I’d like universal Healthcare and the right for people not just to survive on their working wages. But to thrive. No one should have to struggle for basic necessities and a decent life.
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The democratic party doesnt want universal healthcare
Progressive just means a low ranking democrap.
POSIWID
I made a ven-diagram to help explain
Real good effort, but it’s missing a chunk of “what they actually do” that’s not part of “what they say they want”. And there’s too much overlap between “what the donors want” and “literally just opposing fascism”. Cuz at some point that would entail cooling it a bit with the neoliberal economics driving regular people into misery for slightly better profits.
At a certain point, fascism is bad for business, so I can imagine a small overlap there.
Yeah but the business heads always convince themselves they can still fly a little closer to the sun on that one.
True.
In a vacuum like this using the best and worst (dumbest?) example from each party.
But both parties as a whole serve the interest of capital. Their methods might be different. Their indirect/direct use of violence might be different. But they serve the same people with the same interest. AOC and Bernie are even saying that now. They’ve been criticizing the democratic party at all of their events.
Can the liberals stop pretending we can vote our way out of facism and please fucking join us on the left. Fucking please.
Fascism is here. Due process is gone. First amendment is gone. If you’re waiting to vote again you’re no different than someone in Russia thinking they can vote Putin out of power.
Grab a pitchfork (metaphorically speaking) and get organized.
Join PSL or DSA or anyone in your area resisting ICE. Now. Do it now.
Edit: For every downvote please comment with a different organization resisting ICE and organizing locally. Because if it’s just criticism of the groups that ARE resisting it’s not helping. Give people an alternative. I would LOVE people just listing groups that are resisting ICE in your area or nationally. Because that’s all I want.
Edit: For every downvote please comment with a different organization resisting ICE and organizing locally. Because if it’s just criticism of the groups that ARE resisting it’s not helping. Give people an alternative. I would LOVE people just listing groups that are resisting ICE in your area or nationally. Because that’s all I want.
They can’t and won’t. Thought terminating cliche to deflect from the idea that electoralism isn’t good enough. We can’t vote our way out of this, but the rich want us to think that way. Brainwashed masses think Trump will let himself out of office beyond a casket.
Weird how every time someone suggests doing something outside of filling bubbles on paper every 2/4 years, it’s an evil act. But mass murder, prison-industrial complex, the normalized mass poverty of everyone is justified and accepted.
Join PSL
Ah yes, “Palestinian genocide is bad but Ukrainian genocide is good”
Yeah when ICE is taking away my neighbors I always make sure to vet my resistance groups to make sure they have my same exact view on a conflict between two oligarch controlled nations. /s
I don’t agree with Anarchist groups politically. But I sure as hell will stand in solidarity with them against fascism. If you sit by looking for the “politically pure” form of resistance to fascism you will always sit on a “holier than thou” fence of Liberalism.
I don’t agree with PSL or DSA on everything. But what I do agree with is resisting ICE and fascism.
Are you doing something? Because maybe just talk to someone from PSL or DSA and actually just get info from the actual organizer’s. Not some sweaty dude on Twitter.
Just go talk to someone. But don’t just lie about an entire organization of people in a reddit comment and feel ok with watching more and more people getting black bagged.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or your local anarchist bike gang. Just find something you can help with and resist. Stop making excuses because some sweaty Trotskyist like to be edgy on your timeline. Go outside.
When we resist fascism we can talk about the different degrees of being a leftist. But holy fuck this is not the time to do nothing.
Yeah when ICE is taking away my neighbors I always make sure to vet my resistance groups to make sure they have my same exact view on a conflict between two oligarch controlled nations. /s
Thanks for proving the point that you don’t give a shit about Ukrainian genocide.
But I sure as hell will stand in solidarity with them against fascism. If you sit by looking for the “politically pure” form of resistance to fascism you will always sit on a “holier than thou” fence of Liberalism.
God. The irony.
When we warned you that ICE was going to end up empowered by a Trump regime, what you lot said was “Liberals are too impure!”
Now you want infinite solidarity, when you were willing to offer none.
Thanks but no thanks, I’ll resist with a group that isn’t pro-genocide. Isn’t that, after all, what you lot were so insistent on?
Unlike you lot, though, if it comes down to me having a choice only between one of your shithead pro-genocide groups or the fascists, I will bite the bullet and support you.
But don’t expect me to come running to support putting bullets in the heads of Ukrainian civilians and kidnapping hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children because “Ukraine’s government is too right-wing, so it doesn’t matter!” Unless utter pro-genocide imperialist-supporting minority-murdering cunts like the PSL are the only realistic game in town, you’re getting 0 support from me.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or your local anarchist bike gang. Just find something you can help with and resist. Stop making excuses because some sweaty Trotskyist like to be edgy on your timeline. Go outside.
What’s the PSL doing, again, other than posturing?
When we resist fascism we can talk about the different degrees of being a leftist. But holy fuck this is not the time to do nothing.
No, apparently the time to do nothing was when preventing fascism was at its easiest. Now that fascism has been handed all levers of power, we must resist, in suitably non-specific ways.
This is the response of someone with a false comfort in thinking they’ll come for you last. I said my peace.
If you’re not doing anything on the ground to resist ICE then you should. That’s my point.
I’m not gonna argue anything more than that. Name me an organization resisting ICE that you would advocate for. I’d love to list more names in the future. What organization can I list that doesn’t get labeled as a “Tankie” of “Muslim Terrorist” organization from you?
Please. Please give me a group I can list for people like you to go outside?
Please give people reading this comment thread an alternative. Please. Because otherwise your criticism helps no one.
I don’t care if it’s PSL, DSA, or a Harley Davidson motorcycle gang. If you’re not advocating FOR some form of resistance and only criticizing the ones that exist. You are supporting ICE in your inaction while asking others to be inactive as well.
This is the response of someone with a false comfort in thinking they’ll come for you last.
lmao
I’m not gonna argue anything more than that.
Clearly you did, though. You preferred to argue that Ukrainian genocide doesn’t matter because Ukraine is ‘oligarch controlled’. Presumably Palestinian genocide doesn’t matter since Hamas is also ‘oligarch controlled’. You also said that the position of a resistance group on genocide doesn’t matter - presumably this means you’re willing to unite with Zionists against American fascism? Or is solidarity only mandatory when it’s about ignoring the genocides you support?
Please. Please give me a group I can list for people like you to go outside?
I’m involved in local groups. They’re a bunch of ‘shitlibs’ to you lot, no doubt, but considering your primary form of praxis is ensuring that fascists get elected wherever and whenever you can, I’m not sure that your opinions really count for much.
List the organizations please. People would benefit from that. That’s all I’m trying to do in this comment thread. Im not gonna engage in your derailment and false comparisons.
Your criticism was of PSL. And my point is that people should go organize and actually learn from the people in these organizations. Your comment only serves to keep people from organizing. It doesn’t give an alternative. Give an alternative.
List the organizations please.
Unless I wanted to dox my location, that’d be unwise. I can, however, recommend your local scawwy Dem clubs for resources, as well as your local ACLU chapter for how to get involved in ways that are meaningful, even if no one throws a molotov cocktail (or pretends that they will, eventually, someday). And maybe you’ll meet up with folks you can make serious plans with in the process.
Or you can LARP and do nothing of substance to people who actually need your help in this trying time - legal, economic, and medical resources.
That’s all I’m trying to do in this comment thread. Im not gonna engage in your derailment and false comparisons.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. Your only conception of ‘solidarity’ is ‘everyone agrees with me and no one dissents; otherwise, I’ll support fascists’, and ‘Everything I say is objectively correct; I have no obligation to acknowledge anyone else’s viewpoint’.
But hey, at least you can continue being utterly ineffective just like the past 70 years of leftists in this country. Maybe, if we ever emerge from this fascist hellscape, you can kneecap the next leftist candidate that’s put forward for being insufficiently pure and murder a few million more minorities in the process. After all, they matter less than your need to feel pure, right?
That’s exactly the problem. I hate the Democrats as much as the Republicans, but the DSA is so full of tankies I want nothing to do with them either. There is literally no party in this country for people like me.
PSL is full of tankies. DSA, at least in my experience, is filled with idealists who don’t seem to connect ‘results’ with ‘actions’, but their heart is generally in the right place.
Their head, on the other hand, can lead them to bizarre choices like “Unendorsing AOC for being insufficiently pro-Palestine”
Her and Bernie have been insufficiently pro Palestine. To the degree of negligible support of the genocide. To the point of distancing themselves from Ilhan Omar. I think they rightfully know they made a mistake in an attempt to be strategic though. Which they are backtracking on now.
The reason these organizations (DSA/PSL) exist is to move politics to the left. If you criticize them for every attempt to do so. You are literally just contributing to the Ratchet Effect of US politics. That type of milk toast politics from “the left” in the democratic party did not prevent us from getting to where we are today.
The Democrats did everything to do exactly what you are advocating for and surprise surprise we are here in full out fascism today. Maybe try to listen to those a bit to the left of you. We literally warned that this centrist politics would end this way.
But somehow we’re being blamed for it. Even though at every turn the Democrats prevented Palestinian voices and ran on “building the wall”.
The reason these organizations (DSA/PSL) exist is to move politics to the left. If you criticize them for every attempt to do so. You are literally just contributing to the Ratchet Effect of US politics. That type of milk toast politics from “the left” in the democratic party did not prevent us from getting to where we are today.
Ah yes, moving politics to the left will really be served by turning on one of the leftmost and most pro-Palestine politicians currently in Congress.
The leftist urge to sabotage the left for being insufficiently left seems to be timeless. Keep putting fascists in power, I guess. It’s not like I can stop you. God knows I tried.
The Democrats did everything to do exactly what you are advocating for and surprise surprise we are here in full out fascism today. Maybe try to listen to those a bit to the left of you. We literally warned that this centrist politics would end this way.
What am I advocating for, again?
Keep accusing everyone who doesn’t think that electing fascists is left praxis of being neolibs. It’s all you lot have at this point.
