- cross-posted to:
- anticonsumption@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- anticonsumption@slrpnk.net
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Fabric softener is great. Mix a bit with water and use it to clean your shower glass doors/walls. It removes limescale like a charm thanks to the anionic surfactants that are in there. And the Aldi store brand costs hardly anything.
It’s worth noting that cat owners(at least, never had anything buts cats) should avoid certain essential oils, As our furry pals’ little organs aren’t equipped to process them, and they can easily be deadly!
@pseudo@jlai.lu, saw you mention essential oils too, just a PSA.
It’s worse. Fabric softener is composed of an anti static oil. When you run it in the laundry, it coats all of your clothes with a very thin layer of oil.
Which is why towels dried with fabric softener and dryer sheets don’t absorb water anywhere near as well as plain towels dried without it!!
My mom complained to me for years that I wasn’t “doing it right” by not using fabric softener. But her towels are useless compared to mine! She continues to spends $100/ year on fabric softener while on social security. Over the year she has spent thousands and thousands of $$$. 🤦♀️
That homemade laundry soap made with bar soap would be a nightmare in hard water. I don’t even want to think about soap scum in the drains and in my clothes.
I just use the smallest amount of detergent I can get out of the bottle, that works well. And don’t wash a garment after wearing it once if it’s not underwear. Invested in a lot of Merino stuff which manages to be comfortable even here in Florida and doesn’t stink ever. I can wear those shirts and just hang them back up.
If only millennials bought more fabric softener instead of avocados and coffee they would be able to afford a house.
I propose we start calling it fabric lotion. Maybe the disgust with that mental imagery will shut down this worthless product.
Gen X here, I only use unscented dryer sheets because if I don’t I will get shocked a lot. My apartment is great because the humidity is super low in the winter, but clothing hurts. Humidifier doesn’t work because if I don’t use distilled water everything gets a rust color on it. Also I’d be going through a gallon of distilled water a day. I can’t afford that, but I sure as heck can afford a big box of unscented dryer sheets that solves my problem.
I can’t imagine baking baking soda in an oven is cheaper than just buying washing soda? They’re both sold in similar size bags (1kg) for similar prices in my area (€9-€10). Seems like a waste of energy to buy the wrong type of carbonate.
Some people will literally discard economies of scale just to be sanctimonious.
also, soooo many people will just ignore power usage bills, which can be quite substantial in some areas. Running my oven for an hour straight is not exactly cheap
The amount at Costco is about 5lbs, so that is more than the 2.2lbs y’all are talking about.
It might depend on the size of the household, and the volume produced at any one time. If you make a gigantic batch that will last 1+ year(s), it might be a cost-saver, but who knows?
I’m not convinced about the cost. A kilogram of borax seems to run about $10CAD. 2 cups, at 1.7g/CC, would be about 850g, so $7 just for the Borax. Unless there’s a much cheaper place to get it…
A ~5L jug of Tide costs $31, or about $6/L. If they have approximately equivalent cleaning power per volume, Tide wins.
‘Most millennials aren’t buying enough of our shit and that’s a HUGE PROBLEM that all of you definitely care about!’
That’s some pretty useful advice in the comments tho. But also I’m 52 years old and have literally never used fabric softener in my life and have no idea what it’s supposed to be for other than making companies like Proctor & Gamble even more money.
Also, another handy tip: ‘lather, rinse, repeat’ is bullshit, unless you have really thick or really oily hair and don’t wash regularly, you don’t need to wash it twice, the shampoo company just wants you to buy more. Same with fill marks in a washing machine, unless you’re doing a huge load there’s no reason to fill it all the way up.
and don’t wash regularly
Even washing hair regularly is a scam. If you wash once a week your hair will be fine. It’ll look like shit for a few weeks until your scalp gets the message that you aren’t stripping away all the natural oils still and that it can cut back on oil production but afterwards your hair will be healthier.
I’m sorry to have to say, but the idea of “hair training” is a myth.
The oil glands (which are known as sebaceous glands, and produce an oil called “sebum”) are controlled by genetics, hormones, and stress. Sebaceous glands don’t have any sort of “sensor” to tell them when to produce more/less oil, so washing or not washing won’t make a difference.
Thank you. I have extra oily hair so if I skip washing it even a single day it starts to look like I’m using pomade, and whenever I tell people this they always insist I should just wash it once a week and my head will “adjust.”
I am the exact same, friend. My hair becomes a big oil slick after only a day without washing and it’s really obvious. Which is part of why this particular myth bothers me so much.
First, as teens, we had uninformed randos without oily skin telling us to heal our acne problems by putting nonsense like toothpaste and silly putty on our faces. Now, those same uninformed, non-oily randos tell us that our greasy hair can be solved by not washing it.
But my dermatologist was right about the acne care they recommended, I’m inclined to trust them about my scalp care too.
Yep, I had really bad acne when I was younger and the only thing that worked was isotretinoin, which is rough. My lips cracked and bled while I was taking that but when I was finished the acne was gone.
They made me pledge not to get pregnant while taking it despite the fact that I don’t have a uterus, lol.
I took that stuff too (aka accutane). Severest depression I’ve ever experienced but I’m thankful to only get the occasional acne as an adult now.
I knew /r/nopoo was a lie!
I’m a head-sweater so when I work out my hair gets as wet as it would in the shower. I’m not gonna leave it like that, it’ll be stinky.
Yes, not all advice/recommendations apply to everyone. Specifically: our bodies vary quite a bit and they also change over time.
100%.
Use a shampoo that has aloe as the primary ingredient as well. Can comfortably make it a week and half before it looks gnarly.
Routinely get complimented on it so I know its not nasty.
Huh, I didn’t know that. But I mean I gotta shower every couple of days at most anyway or I feel gross, so might as well.
Hair training is a myth, so take their advice with a grain of salt.
Duly noted, thanks.
Oh, I shower every day with soap. I just don’t wash my hair every day. I also feel gross without a shower.
Soap is also not great for your skin; you don’t need to soap up more than your armpits and underwear area.
Apple cider vinegar and tea tree oil baby. (I am not a gross hippy, shampoo dries the f out of my hair and Ive gone no shampoo for ~10 years)
Your hair isn’t left smelling of the vinegar after?
It rinses out really well, and the tea tree oil is used to negate any residual smell
Main reason I do vinegar is because it strips out maybe 60-70% of the oils vs shampoo
It reduces static and leaves behind a film that makes things feel softer. It ruins towels because of this.
I use dryer sheets for static. shrug
Dryer sheets will ruin your towels too, just toss some wool balls in the dryer.
How so?
It coats your towels with a light film that makes them less absorbent.
Same thing just with more waste
I gotta wash mine twice(when i do wash it), but that’s because of the extra oils I put in my hair. The first wash absorbs so much of the oil it won’t really even lather.
Obvious solution seems to be to put less oil in your hair? shrug
Then it doesn’t look right. Obvious solution is to just wash my hair twice. So obvious it’s what I do and it works great.
I’ve literally never put oil in my hair in my life (tho now I say that I dunno if shampoo/conditioner has oil in it. Probably.) It’s looked fine this whole time.
I’ve probably had pretty long hair for longer than you’ve been alive. If you have long hair and wanting it to look not crazy without tying it up, you’re putting something in it. Whether it’s leave in conditioner, or fiber or pomade or gel or hairspray or some type of oil or you manage to skip all that by straightening it all the time; you’re putting something in it or doing something to it. Very few people have an exception to this. Namely people who have very straight, limp hair.
I’m in my 50s so color me skeptical on that count, but fair enough. ;) But yeah, I’ve never been able to grow my hair out and keep it that way even though I do have very straight, limp hair just because it was always a pain to wash and care for and I just didn’t care enough.
I learned that from Lizzie McGuire. Ethan Craft, the character frequently noted to have amazing hair, calls the “lather, rinse, repeat” thing a marketting trick.
Was “lather, rinse, repeat” an advertising jingle or something for you guys, or do you just all get taught to wash your hair twice?
It was on the instructions on the bottles and IIRC in the ads for the major brands too.
I’ve had a box of fabric sheets for a decade or so cause my mom got them for me when she house sat, and I didn’t have any. I sometimes use em if there are sparks when I pull something out of the dryer, and i don’t forget i have them.
Cotton and mostly-cotton blends don’t get that much static but nylon, polyester, and bamboo/rayon/microfiber make sparks. If you’re trying to wash pet hair out of something, the softener can help it let go. Although, before you wash, try using a squeegee or a silicone bowl-scraper to remove most of the hair.
Honestly at a loss here. The title references fabric softener, but the content relates more specifically to DIY laundry detergent while only mentioning that softener makes clothes more vulnerable to wear & tear. What’s the nitty-gritty on the fabric softener? Does it actually damage clothing in some way?
As geek analogy, is it like the subatomic bacteria that starts destroying the Klingon ship in Star Trek: the Next Generation S2E8’s “A Matter Of Honor”, or does it just make the material more susceptible to tearing?
https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/how-do-fabric-softeners-work.html
It was created so that when you dried clothes outside (especially cotton) they didn’t get crunchy. The fibers tend to freeze an interlock microscopically when they dry. It coats the fibers and makes them not stick together.
When mechanical dryers became the norm, they needed a new reason, so the called out static. And in some climates, dryer static can be a bit of a pain. Dryer balls supposedly help with this, but I can’t find any reasonable data to back that up, and that’s just the kind of thing we’re confirmation bias over.
Softener can/will build up on the fabric. It can discolor bright whites.
I think the worst of it is:
- if you use it on towels or anything meant to absorb water, it seriously dampens that ability
- it builds up in the nooks and crannies of the washer and it’s hard to clean off,
- it’s expensive
- for mechanical drying in moderate climates, it does little more than add smell.
- some people have allergenic reactions to it
Dryer balls supposedly help with this
From what I’ve heard, dryer balls help the drying process by warming up faster than the wet clothes and drying from inside the pile. And even if that turns out to have been misinformation, I’m not too annoyed by it because it’s a single low-cost expense whereas dryer sheets are consumables
Yup, I saw a reasonably well-conducted study that verified they decrease dryer time.
So I live in a super dry climate. I’ve gotten static shocks that leave my hand numb (not from the laundry, taking off layers while wearing rubber boots) because it’s just that dry here.
Dryer balls don’t work for static in my experience. Put a couple pins in it? That didn’t work. Dryer sheets are pretty much the only thing that actually cuts it as far as I can tell.
Just the sort of information that I was after, thank you.
I worked in appliances for about ten years, and not a single washer manufacturer would actually recommend using fabric softener. It horribly gums up the workings of the machine, even when you use the tiny amount you are actually supposed to (which most people use way too much). They are (or were originally) basically just animal fats and emulsifiers with some fragrance thrown in. They smell awful when they are left stuck somewhere for a long time (like the outer walls of the inner tub of your washing machine - seriously, it probably looks furry if you opened it up to see).
I can’t speak to what it does to your clothes specifically, but I can imagine several downsides to essentially coating fabric in lavender scented industrial mayonnaise.
Yes. As I understand it, fabric softener softens the fabrics. Obviously. Which makes them more prone to ripping, tearing, and just deteriorating faster. In addition to being another cost, both financial & possibly environmental, it’s plain unnecessary.
I buy some really nice clothing & I want my clothes to last as long as possible. Most of my clothing takes a long time to wear out. My recipe for success for the last 10 years is precisely as follows:
I have a frontloading washing machine, which uses far less water & it doesn’t have an agitator screw thing in the middle that grabs your wet clothes (clothing is weakest when it’s wet). I button & zip my pants, and anything else with a zipper like a jacket, so the zippers aren’t attacking clothes during the wash cycle. Nice clothing, I turn inside-out to preserve designs or outward-facing fabric. I use the ECOS greywater friendly laundry detergent from Costco, and I just use more of it like I dump a full cap or 1.5 caps per load. In case it’s not as effective as conventional, just use more. Plus 1 scoop OxiClean (idk the greywater/waste impact of OxiClean; I’m convinced it’s a powerful multipurpose cleaning agent that is gentle on clothing).
All clothing is treated the same, whites & brights & colors & blacks, all get washed together, I couldn’t care less. Run washer on Tap Cold, Extra High Spin, Heavy Soil level every time. No matter the load. So my washer works extra hard to gently wash my clothing & then wring nearly all the water out of it. The harder you run the washer, the less work is done by the dryer, which save you electric/gas & is gentler on your clothes.
Then my athletic gear, wool socks, and denims never go into the dryer, I let those air dry. The rest is gently run through the dryer & “it is what it is”, it’s mostly stuff that doesn’t really matter.
It takes longer to write out than to do, you can see, it’s quite expedient. I don’t separate. I dump a lot of simple, gentle detergents in. Wash when dirty, wring out water, dryer if necessary. I’m telling you: my clothes last a very long time. Less is more.
Yeah I’m not putting all that effort and potentially ruining my washing machine to save me a few cents per wash. That seems ridiculous.
You don’t even have to buy the fancy, expensive, in a pod detergent or anything, considering they always contain the same stuff that comes in a box/bottle. Just buy whatever’s cheap.
Yea, making your own laundry detergent from grated soap and borax seems like something people with money do to convince themselves they’re frugal. When in reality, there is no way in hell you’re making a commodity cheaper than GreatValue ™
Yeah, the cheap standard powder detergent would probably be less expensive. The volume you’d need to make to beat it is huge. Like, maybe five years’ worth.
I am also laughing at making washing powder in the oven to save money. The amount you’d spend on electricity would put you in the red, unless you live in a petrostate with free electricity or something.
The amount of free time you’d have to have, as well, to even consider baking the powder for an hour per round to make it usable… After a certain point my time is valuable to me and I’d rather just pay a dollar or two extra to not have to worry about all this mess.
Indeed. Or working for prison slave wages.
Lol yeah I didn’t even consider that. At this point it almost feels like some of that has to be trolling. Either that or there is a large detergent hobbyist community out there that I have just not been aware of.
Not just the effort, but by the time you buy all those ingredients, you’re probably paying more than you would for normal laundry detergent.
And if you use Dr. Bronner’s bar soap as recommended, you’ll be paying out the ass.
Not to mention the gas to go to the three separate stores you probably need to buy that shit from.
Eh, all of that stores really well, so buy in bulk.
This new generation can’t do anything and spends money frivolously… This generation is too stingy and resourceful… Guys pick a damn lane.
You can just use white vinegar instead of fabric softener. It’s significantly cheaper, can be used for other non-laundry things, eliminates odors, and doesn’t gum up your washing machine with residue.
Is there anything vinegar can’t do?!? Between white and apple cider vinegar, I feel like they cover so many areas of cleaning and household stuff.
Vinegar ain’t basic, that’s for sure.
Ha ha… groan
I have been thinking of making my own fruit vinegar this year. Hopefully good enough to consume rather than just use for cleaning
Further advice, don’t use a lot of it. You’ll see videos on youtube of people pouring like three cups of vinegar in their washing machine, don’t do that. You only need a splash of it. If you use too much, the acid will eat away at the rubber gaskets and shit
O.O
That’s a terrifying amount. I use around 1/4 cup for most mid to large loads. 1/2 maaaybe if it’s a large towel load. Does the job well enough.
You definitely don’t need that much vinigar. That said most new washing machine are using a chemical resistant silicone or TPE instead of more traditional rubber compound. This eliminated the already miniscule risk of acid damaging the seals.
If you add 3 cups(about 700 mL) of standard 5% acetic acid bleach to 4 gallons of water(~ 15000 mL) you end up with a 0.2% acetic acid you will end up with a pH of something like 5.5 or about the pH of healthy skin. A lot of HE washers will use a 5 gallon initial wash so it’s likely to be even gentler than what I came up with in my rough napkin math guesstamate.
While I agree with the general sentiment, the vinegar won’t be released and diluted until later in the load, so it sits in its full 5% acetic acid glory for quite a while.
Most(maybe all) HE washers don’t have mechanical flaps that hold back the liquids, they sit in plastic cups that empty by an overflow or auto syphon system when water comes out of a tube located above that tub or cup. It’s a fancy plastic cup. Every plastic common to appliance manufacturing is resistant to 5% acetic acid. Chemical resistance of plastics chart
I just looked at the fabric softener cup in my washer, it’s HDPE(high density polyethylene). If you look at that chart you will see polyethylene is resistant to even concentrated acetic acid. The plastic bottle the vinigar comes in is made from a lower density polyethylene.
By the time the vinigar leaves the cup is already being diluted by the fill water causing it to overflow or start the auto syphon. It will not damage your washer, but even if it did, you can buy replacements for the entire soap tray for relatively little online. The same can be said for most other appliance parts with the notable exceptions being large motors and some brands control boards. There are tons of write ups, tutorials and videos on how to fix broken appliances and replace parts.
Yes, I was just being pedantic. Sorry to have triggered such an involved response, but thanks for all the information! From what I understand this is more of a problem in dishwashers, if you want to use it as rinse aid.
No worries, I am a fan of pedantry. The amount of involved in the response was just me getting mentally stuck in a washing machine hole.
Meh. I say you need half a cup to a cup. A splash don’t do it.
Yeah if you can use just a splash you might have water soft enough to not require anything.
1/2 cup to 1 cup is the sweet spot for my water, 1/4 cup on a very small load.
I have a water softener and it works great for how the clothes feel from the wash. The half cup I add is mainly for odor eliminating.
Isn’t vinegar used to remove fabric softener
Please don’t do this. It seems like a hack, but will mess up your machine bc of how corrosive the vinegar is. Learned this the hard way.
If your clothes really need it, just soak them in a bath of diluted vinegar for a while, then rinse and wash.
I’m not sold on that homemade detergent. Soap tends to leave insoluble residue, especially when you have hard water. There is a reason why almost everything uses synthetic detergents (though it might also be because those are cheap).
Yeah, I’ve never understood the point in using a different soap as the base of a different soap. I make my own laundry soap out of basic shit I get from Walmart, and it works great.
Is it actually cheaper than buying dry detergent for cheap?
Good question, but I’ll admit I’ve not actually run the exact figures. I’m actually doing this for health reasons rather than monetary, since one of my partners is allergic tio life.
But to your question,I might have spent the cost of 1.5 large boxes of laundry detergent ($30) for the 4 items that go into it (Baking soda,Epson salt,washing soda,sea salt), but given the fact I can buy in bulk, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being cheaper. In the last 6mo I’ve made the laundry soap twice and haven’t put a huge dent in my ingredient stock. I wouldn’t be surprised to find I get more than 200 washes out of the base ingredients, which would definitely be more economical than the premade stuff.
Fabric softener is sometime useful for very hard water. You don’t have to buy it, though. You can use white vinegar to soften the water to actually soften the fabric mix in a big container one part white vinegar to one part sodium bicarbonate. Wait for it to stop foaming. Add four drops of essential oils per liter of mixture. Stir. Allow to rest a few hour before using. You can make big quantity ahead of time as long as your container is big enough for the big foam of the big batch.
