The report is absolutely scathing. Some choice quotes:
But when the next crisis came, both the US and the governments of Europe fell back on old models of alliance leadership. Europe, as EU high representative for foreign affairs Josep Borrell loudly lamented prior to Russia’s invasion, is not really at the table when it comes to dealing with the Russia-Ukraine crisis. It has instead embarked on a process of vassalisation.
But “alone” had a very specific meaning for Scholz. He was unwilling to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine unless the US also sent its own main battle tank, the M1 Abrams. It was not enough that other partners would send tanks or that the US might send other weapons. Like a scared child in a room full of strangers, Germany felt alone if Uncle Sam was not holding its hand.
Europeans’ lack of agency in the Russia-Ukraine crisis stems from this growing power imbalance in the Western alliance. Under the Biden administration, the US has become ever more willing to exercise this growing influence.
If you don’t want me to address points, maybe don’t bring them up?
About 8.2 million, that’s like 20%, have fled. Numbers oscillate but many are going back to help the war effort, sometimes even with children.
Believe it or not but a people might want to fight. Not just a leader, not just an army, but a people. Generally speaking you don’t want to piss off Slavs. Their national anthem (complete banger, no, not Funk) is about pretty much nothing else but this. First used 1917, then Russia happened, then in use since 1995, and now Russia happens again. If you have a look at different anthems of eastern European states many contain language such as “Our country isn’t lost, yet”, “We haven’t yet perished”, each and every time it’s referring to Russia.
If you get your information from European media, you’re not getting told those kinds of cultural and historical background because they don’t need to be said. If you get your news from the US it’s likely that it’s at least interspersed with Kremlin propaganda. They don’t understand why Europe is fighting, either, they just want to bonk some Russkis, don’t want to be seen not doing anything while the rest of NATO is up in arms, but also need to be dragged into doing things – because they don’t understand Russia.
This war would already be over had Ukrainians received better support from the start.
First off, no because Ukraine will have won long before then. Secondly, no because if the war was going badly for Ukraine (it isn’t) Poles etc. would volunteer en masse. Speaking of Poland the only reason their military isn’t in Ukraine right now is because NATO also is a leash.
As the joke goes, two Polish veterans meet in a bar. Asks the one: “Suppose Germany and Russia again invade us at the same time. Who do we shoot at first?” – “Easy”, says the other, “The Germans: Business before pleasure”.
Yes. That’s why they have to be kicked out by force.
And here I thought you said you wanted to learn more about Russia. That poem describes the Russian soul and its own exasperation with it.
As to the more general point of “Russia is losing”: I guess it’s useless to argue further, you’ve made up your mind. Ukraine and its people disagree with you.
Go start watching the progress of war more closely (about any youtuber going over maps, try e.g. this one). Promise me you’ll eat your shoes if Ukraine wins in under a year from now and I promise I will neither gloat nor insist you actually do it.
I actually only want you to address one specific point, but you keep bringing up completely irrelevant cultural or moral tangents and neglecting to keep the conversation on the very material subject on which I started this conversation. I am merely addressing those points and specifically how they don’t matter to this discussion. If I may say so, it looks like you’re intentionally avoiding the subject.
If I need to repeat myself yet again, how come “Russia can’t even match Ukraine” if, as you’ve implied multiple times, Ukraine is dependant on NATO support (a group they’re no part of) to push back the current Russian occupation that has remained more or less in place for over an year? And how does this entire 1 year history of war not show that Russia has actually at least matched Ukraine? Possible future prospects or “what could’ve happened” don’t matter when analysing the reality of the past 1 year of the war.
It is completely okay to admit you were being hyperbolic there, but you insist in not even acknowledging those points, much less arguing against them, while trying to lecture me about some intrinsic characteristic of Slavic peoples.
Random moral and ethnic tangents from somebody who can’t stop.
And yet, men aged over 18 are barred from leaving. According to the UN, 90% of those who left are women and children. I’m sure you don’t actually think every single Ukrainian adult man wants to stay. Many are doing unconventional methods to bypass this ban, which are not accessible to all. Believe it or not, but some people don’t want to fight. Keeping them there against their will does not save Ukrainian lives.
So what you’re saying is that NATO news outlets that bend over backwards to support Ukraine are actually parroting propaganda from their enemy? Are the only reliable propaganda-less sources the Ukraine military and the youtubers you’ve mentioned at this point? Also I’m pretty sure not everybody is a Ukraine nerd in Europe, so the European news would still have to explain how Slavic peoples are so different and how that uniqueness impacts the war, which has had severe material impacts to all of Europe. I’m pretty sure not everybody in your neighbourhood is an expert in both the Scots, Portuguese and Libyans.
Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve. This is all speculation that 1) Ukraine is going to win, or 2) Poland would go against NATO to participate in the war. Either way, it still demands more blood for the blood god which is a weird way of saying “yes, I think it’s safe to assume that escalation will follow rather than cutting losses in case Ukraine doesn’t win”. I guess in order to save Ukraine every Eastern European should go die and kill there? Is this about saving Ukrainian lives or Ukrainian soil at this point?
Which goes directly in the face of your portrayal of them as being unrealistic in their demands. If in order to get your peace demand you need to completely shift the tide of the war, maybe your demand is the most tenuous one. “Realistic” demands for peace include only what is practical for both sides to achieve in the current moment, not ones that might be possible in some future that one side hopes for.
I guess I misspoke but I have no interest on Russian literature or poetry, but rather the material realities of the people, whatever their ethnicity and culture. No song is going to inform me about whether or not Russia currently controls Donetsk or Crimea, and insistence on such subjective media rather than the established facts brings nothing of use to the table. And again, summarising one entire diverse country by a single song seems awfully simplistic.
I don’t think I need “Ukraine and its people” to agree with me on this seem I’m not talking to them right now and they’re not a single hivemind with only one opinion. As you’ve said, 20% of them have even fled, though you also failed to provide a source. What I’m stating is a simple statement, “Russia has achieved its war goals and therefore has matched Ukraine”, and instead of explaining why I’m wrong you keep deferring to songs, youtubers and some bizarrely reductionist notions of ethnicity. If you don’t wish to talk about it, don’t waste your typing fingers beating around the bush. You seem to be mixing your moral feelings about the war with your material analyses, and that’s generally not helpful even if you end up correct in the end by a stroke of luck.
But if you do want to actually explain to me how “Russia can’t even match Ukraine” despite the course of the war so far, without resorting to hopes and dreams and speculation or including foreign factors like NATO support, I’m all ears actually.
I’ll actually eat my food like any other day. I’ll not even shed a tear or smile. Believe it or not, I don’t spend much of my time thinking about this war amidst all other world issues. I don’t have any stake in it and I don’t care which side wins in the end, which is why I don’t bother speculating on the future. I’m rather interested in this war ending whatever it takes with the least harm done to all peoples, and if it takes the Russian annexation of lands it currently controls, the human rights situations can be sorted in peacetime. Besides, this war is really annoying for global geopolitics even though nobody even knew where Ukraine was on the map 2 years ago. They’re not that relevant out there to anybody but Eurocentrists.
lmao imagine thinking that some generic European anthem is a banger compared to Funk music or literally any genre from outside Europe. Can’t wait to listen to the baroque choir on my Spotify. “Deutschland Deutschland über alles, über alles in die Welt” derivatives is definitely something the world loves listening to. Is there even good music coming from Europe since Daft Punk retired?
But since you offered, I offer you back Guantanamera as an olive branch, because I’ve been listening to it the other day.
Reminder: Russia has matched Ukraine militarily, and Ukraine is just now possibly getting to match it back. This is not a moral statement. Reply to that first, then you can proceed to tell me about your understanding the intricacies of Slavic culture.
No, but this is war. Even if you’re not needed on the front lines you’re needed repairing infrastructure or baking bread. I don’t buy the “I need to protect my wife abroad” thing btw you’re moving to Poland or Germany, not Somalia.
No I’m saying that America is infiltrated by Russian assets and they’re being quite oblivious to how Russia operates in that regard. Russia has successfully had Americans at each other’s throats for a good 20 years now.
Even if we accept the “they only want those territories” idea: Noone has achieved any goals before the war is over. They also have to hold those territories – and probably also want to get rid of sanctions. War is the continuation of politics by different means (Clausewitz, read him), as long as Ukraine doesn’t cede to Russia’s claim, or is forced to, Russia’s political and thus war goals are not achieved.
The whole thing was in response to “Europe needs the US to be protected against Russia”. That’s the context. No, Ukraine could not stand against Russia without foreign help, at least not in the way it is now – we’d see a partisan war.
But given that Ukraine, with all this backing, still has a smaller military capacity than the rest of Europe, no, Europe isn’t reliant on the US for its own protection. As said, France alone could do it. NATO could vanish and we’d be fine (if a bit disorganised) as the EU, too, is a mutual defence pact. Article 42 (7) TEU. Turkey would be left in the dust… well, technically, that’s why the US has always been keen on undermining EU military integration, but in reality we’d have their back if Russia tried to do shit. Not that they could Turkey is armed to the teeth, the only thing they’d have trouble with is fighting a two-front war, Russia and Greece.
Generally speaking if I hear “The US is defending Europe” it’s usually from Trumpists or, I guess this proves the horseshoe theory, Tankies.
Is not our national anthem. Yep the GDR one was better.
But more to the point, as to banger national anthems, try the Tuvan one, complete with throat singing.
As to European music, motherfucker. Probably 90% of the world’s metal output is written here and countries which are unable to produce metal (such as France) then rock when it comes to other things, in France’s case, Electronica. Case in point, have some minimal Techno. But to circle back to Ukraine, have some Heilung.
There we have it. Thank you for finally stopping the assumption that I’m arguing some grander point than I was. Russia can match Ukraine. We can move on from this now. Only took some 10 replies.
You do know that there are other reasons for people to not want to be in a warzone other than “protecting wife”, don’t you? Not going into the Somalia/Germany comparison there, but there are people, be they bakers, engineers or even soldiers, that have fled from Ukraine, but are legally barred to do so. What do you think of those men who only wish to leave Ukraine and the war but legally can’t? I’d bet there are even some ethnic Russians and other minorities from Ukraine that’d rather not be part of it too. Not to protect some elusive wife, but to protect themselves.
Then we’re just arguing semantics. Russia currently controls most of the claimed regions and if God demanded an armistice they’d keep most of it. It is up to the Ukrainian forces to change that if they insist on war. They don’t need to wait for some formal declaration of peace so long as they hold the regions. They have de facto achieved their goals. Both Korean countries claims jurisdiction over all Korea, but they don’t have much authority in each other lands. It would be plainly ignorant for either to demand the other to unconditionally cede their domain. But it would also be nonsensical to claim then that either is trouncing the other given they can’t push each other out of their respective domains. The ball is on Ukraine’s court to take the lands back if they so wish, which means they’re on the losing side right now. You’re missing the forest for the trees on that one.
I’m confused. Where are the Tankies in this? Are we Trump? The USA? Europe? The Leopards? If you people are at war with each other and the USA helps out, what do we have to do with it? Are we asking the USA to defend or attack Europe? Very confusing.
Or do you refer to the USA protecting European capitalist interests (which don’t include the interests of the working class Europeans) by destabilising foreign powers that pose a threat to European imperialism? Well, if that is the case, I’m not sure how the wars on Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan, or the dozen interventions in America Proper helped the working class Europeans. If y’all really don’t like the Unitedstadian support, please do ask for a referendum to leave or disband NATO. You’ll find plenty of leftist support worldwide.
Ah yes, Unitedstadians haven’t been famously killing and oppressing their own before Putin got into power. The FBI is a KGB branch and all.
sounds neat, reminds me of this monster hunter track
I’m sorry, neither of those are really that popular out there. K-pop, Funk and hip-hop variants are really blooming though. Also why is the Ukrainian one German and singing in English? Either way, have yet another cultural wonder from far away.
…says the one with a lemmygrad account.
I’d actually be in favour of that but at the same time would worry about what the US will be doing without our moderating input.
When it comes to intervention abroad the US and EU have vastly different outlooks (even though France kicked off Libya).
Random recent example, take Mali: Their government said “Help we have ISIS here and can’t deal with it”, France said “No problem my old colonial subject we’ll solve it”, Mali said “We know the French, they are arrogant and are only going to stomp ISIS, then leave us as defenceless as we were before” upon which Germany said “We also know the French, yes they’re arrogant we’ll train you”. Thus France went to fight, and Germany went to train. Then, and this is a bit speculation, Russia bribed some top Mali brass in any case the net effect was a military coup in Mali, the Junta then inviting Wagner over and their military started to massacre random people in joint operations with Mali. France and Germany promptly left and/or suspended operations, Wagner trying to blame the human rights abuses on France (playing into general anti-French propaganda Russia has been peddling in the region for quite a while). And no they didn’t do anything to combat ISIS they only made things worse.
How many points in that – coming when invited, doing a clean job, leaving when asked, would you expect the US to do? The European sentiment is that the fucked-up internal state of Mali politics cannot be solved by imposition from the outside, they will have to find their own way out of it, sure if they want we can lend a hand but ultimately it’s their responsibility to not fuck up their own country. It’s a kind of non-interventionist interventionism. We are precisely limited by not backing dictatorships, unlike Russia which prefers people who it can bribe, China which actually doesn’t care one way or the other, regarding it as simply business, and the US well they’re not even really in Africa but you know all to well how they treated, and are treating, South America. 60 fucking years and they’re still pissed Cuba dared to rebel against them as colonial overlords.
Side note yes you should totally look into Wagner’s operations in Africa. If that doesn’t look like an attempt at colonialism then I don’t know what does.
Who needs K-pop when you have the insanity that produces Eurovision.
I mean… it’s respected. It’s funky. But also rather specific, or alternatively used as ingredient in other styles. But speaking of Eurovision. No I don’t know what that is, either, there’s a reason there’s a gazillion Eurovision drinking games.
Hmm. K.I.Z. is all the rage among the younger lefties but I could never really get into hip-hop. Other bands make other kinds, cult classic not in the least because of the lyrics, and then, well, over here everything ultimately turns out metal.
Not German, Germanic would fit better, genre is proto-germanic ritual folk. The band is as much German as Norwegian as Danish and the relation to Ukraine is in the theme and lyrics of the song. Ukrainians, btw, are an age-old mixture of Slavic and Germanic culture, Vikings settled there when travelling between the Baltic and Black Sea and mixed with the local Slavic population starting about 750CE.
As to Ukrainian music – I’m a bit stumped but there’s definitely Jinjer. They also punch way above their weight in Eurovision, counted by wins per time participated they lead the pack.
But as I didn’t accost you with enough metal yet I’ll add what should have been Germany’s entry last year before the powers that be decided it to be “not suitable for radio play”, which radio stations then promptly commented by playing it up and down.
You know I tried to come up with South American artists but failed twice – first idea was Manu Chao, but the guy is French of Basque-Galician descent, and then Santana, well, closer, at least he’s (originally) Mexican.
If you ask around in Spain or Portugal they’ll know more of your stuff. And, just remembered, for some reason DTH are popular in Argentinia.