What are everyone’s thoughts, feelings, opinions about both the old and new Evangelion series?

4.0 SPOILERS

I thought the rebuild ending was more depressing than EoE, partly because when given the power to create LITERALLY ANYTHING, Shinji goes ahead and creates a copy of THIS WORLD (evidenced by the use of a live action shot in the end), where he will live as a capitalist salaryman with his literal waifu.

At least in EoE everyone could choose to come out of instrumentality by themselves to create a new world, thus leaving everything ambiguous.

Pure ideology, Mark Fisher is vindicated yet again.

They also couldn’t go 5 MINUTES without showing some 14 year old girl ass…

  • wantonviolins [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    0·
    3 years ago

    I strongly disagree with this interpretation of the original Evangelion series having such a didactic message towards the audience.

    Then you strongly disagree with Anno on that one, he’s been pretty consistent when speaking about the themes these past 25 years. The original has an episode titled Hedgehog’s Dilemma near the end of the first act, blatantly spelling it out. Anno’s answer to the posited dilemma has always been an emphatic “other people are what makes life worth living”.

    All the elements that make Shinji “happy” within the rebuild ending are only valid as such under the current order (mainly the salaryman job), not some grand universal secret that makes life worth living. This is just capitalist realism.

    The “grand universal secret” is spelled out pretty clearly in Anno’s answer to the hedgehog’s dilemma. Capitalist realism, in the context of the ending of 3.0+1.0, would be if Shinji remade everything exactly as it was, with Evas and NERV and the angels and all of the conflict inherent in that, because that is already the metaphor for the real world within the larger meta-framework of the narrative.

    I gotta get to sleep so I’ll write up a longer response to this tomorrow, but it sounds like you’re considering the rebuilds as if they are meant to be understood separately from the original series instead of being complementary. They build off of one another, Asuka’s development in the original is still important to your understanding of who she is in the rebuilds.

    • SuperNovaCouchGuy [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      0·
      3 years ago

      Then you strongly disagree with Anno on that one,

      Well yes. Because I think the original Evangelion series is far too complicated to draw any sort of morality from, its art, something truly open to interpretation.

      …you’re considering the rebuilds as if they are meant to be understood separately from the original series instead of being complementary

      Yes again, there is no substantive consistency between the rebuilds and the original series imo. They just improved the form and hollowed out all substance.

      Capitalist realism, in the context of the ending of 3.0+1.0, would be if Shinji remade everything exactly as it was, with Evas and NERV and the angels and all of the conflict inherent in that, because that is already the metaphor for the real world within the larger meta-framework of the narrative.

      That doesn’t make a difference because they just replaced the “metaphor” with the real thing and cheaply posited that as the “happy ending”. That is literally stating that the current world we have, although not perfect, is the best option, not only for individual self actualization, but in terms of seeking “happiness”. I also fail to see how the angels, nerv, and the evas have any real-world equivalent other than climate change and the deep state.

      • wantonviolins [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        0·
        3 years ago

        That doesn’t make a difference because they just replaced the “metaphor” with the real thing and cheaply posited that as the “happy ending”. That is literally stating that the current world we have, although not perfect, is the best option, not only for individual self actualization, but in terms of seeking “happiness”. I also fail to see how the angels, nerv, and the evas have any real-world equivalent other than climate change and the deep state.

        that’s not at all what any of that states. the textual “happy ending” brings with it the baggage that the entire show and five movies established prior: life is difficult and you will get hurt. it, by providing a point of contrast, underlines those ideas. life is difficult and you will get hurt, but it is worth it

        the real world is never once posited as the best possible option for the world or individual happiness. it is the only possible option because it is all that exists. you, as a human being living on earth in 2021, cannot wave a magic spear and make global communism happen, you have to go out, into the capitalist hellscape of the real world, and work to bring it about, suffering as you do so, because that is what it costs to achieve things. other, better things can exist, but if all you do is sit in your room and watch mecha anime you will never bring them about, and that’s the entire textual and metatextual thesis of evangelion

        • SuperNovaCouchGuy [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          1·
          3 years ago

          that’s not at all what any of that states. the textual “happy ending” brings with it the baggage that the entire show and five movies established prior: life is difficult and you will get hurt. it, by providing a point of contrast, underlines those ideas. life is difficult and you will get hurt, but it is worth it

          This is what I mean when I stated "the current world we have, although not perfect, is the best option, not only for individual self actualization, but in terms of seeking “happiness”. "

          Again, this is looking at the world using a god’s eye view stating that “Life” as a grand construct or universal state of being is this or that. We simply cannot view “Life” as something separate from material conditions or the current socioeconomic order through the narrow perspective we have as human beings.

          the real world is never once posited as the best possible option for the world or individual happiness. it is the only possible option because it is all that exists.

          Again, this is literally saying that all we have in front of us is all that exists and is the only possible option for individual happiness. “It isn’t great but it could be worse.”

          you, as a human being living on earth in 2021, cannot wave a magic spear and make global communism happen, you have to go out, into the capitalist hellscape of the real world, and work to bring it about, suffering as you do so, because that is what it costs to achieve things. other, better things can exist, but if all you do is sit in your room and watch mecha anime you will never bring them about

          Exactly! And yet Shinji goes and becomes a salaryman wagie living together with his impossible waifu. The rebuilds in essence state that happiness is a moral imperative, and the only way forwards unto happiness is through accepting the role of a married wagecuck. Shinji is not shown returning to the village struggling to bring about any form of collective power with his comrades.