I can definitely understand peoples’ issues with it being consumed, especially in a political context, but how do yall feel about “weed”? I won’t hide my feelings, I am very much pro-weed, it’s not great that I started in my mid-teens but in my area it’s FAR from uncommon. I don’t smoke daily or anything, I’m not addicted to it (people say it’s non-habit forming but any drug can be addictive with enough frequent usage) but I do smoke and dab w/ friends often. That’s not why I believe in legalization tho, my main thing is you shouldn’t make a naturally occurring plant an illegal substance. I’d point to the DEA’s destructive (legal) burning of thousands of naturally occurring marijuana plants found in nature; This seems eco-fascist to me and to deny the uses of hemp as a production material seems dogmatic to me. The USSR used hemp for industrial purposes during the war and it helped in a major way. I’m sure most of us are familiar with the badge given for Hemp growers. If you have any criticisms, I’m more than open to it, but I feel that marijuana won’t be easy to get rid of in future society and would probably be put to use in different more productive ways.
Weed isn’t any more harmful than alcohol or tobacco which are legal pretty much everywhere. The harm that comes from policing weed far outweighs any actual benefit from doing so.
It’s actually far less harmful cause those things will kill you, and cannabis can’t.
Ya, I see alcohol as so much more harmful than weed, growing up with an alcoholic parent.
edit: Also the US government historically and still does use alcohol to wreck Indian communities.
Exactly! There’s a reason the movie “Leaving Las Vegas” didn’t feature Nicolas Cage smoking copious amounts of weed, it’s because that would just make you passout
unless operating heavy machinery/driving while intoxicated obviously, and some respiratory if smoking combusted matter, but yea otherwise wont really kill you.
Yeah by itself, you can’t overdose on cannabis. There are other, much safer methods of consumption than combustion. I actually have a dry herb vaporizer myself.
I picked up a tinymight 2 not too long ago and a water pipe adapter for it. I love this thing and the best part is my lungs legitimately feel better now.
What are you running?
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That first point could be a point to criminalize alcohol and tobacco and marijuana rather than legalize marijuana
I don’t see much value in doing that to be honest, and I don’t think it would be possible to accomplish that to any meaningful effect in western culture.
Long term we should work against the consumptions of it but yeah, it wouldn’t work well by immediately banning it. I’m just saying those two existing wouldn’t inherently justify marijuana if someone is against those
I think it’s more of an argument that society generally functions fine with those two being legal, and since weed is arguably less dangerous there’s no rational reason to ban it.
The idea that we shouldn’t allow a substance to temporarily alter our state of mind with the possibility of permanently changing how we think about things really feels like internalized bourgeois ideology. Psychedelics do a pretty good job of lifting the veil of liberalism in my own experience.
indeed
I never saw the movie “They Live” but I hear that some people interpreted the glasses in the film to be like psychedelics, is that accurate? I have not done psychedelics or seen the movie lol so I have no clue
I didn’t see it either. I just peeked at a YouTube clip and I would say it’s way more subtle than that. I guess you could say the result is the same if the result is the realization that things may not be as they appear. I did get so high on mushrooms one time that many of my visual memories from that day are monochromatic.
Prohibition doesn’t work. Enforcement is costly and never ending. Those who want to get their hands on drugs will do so whether it’s legal or not. The major difference when cannabis was legalized here in Canada is that you no longer have to maintain some sketchy contact and be forced to hang out with them on occasion in order to get your hands on it. It certainly hasn’t broken down society.
Most of us live in places where alcohol can be purchased legally. Well, alcohol is a drug too. Why should it be treated any differently?
What are we going to do when the state withers away? Will all sections of society continue prohibition? We should instead focus on education and providing support to those who become addicts. The idea that we can solve all drug problems by banishing drugs from society is utopian thinking.
Prohibition doesn’t work. Enforcement is costly and never ending.
it does work, look former socialist states in Europe (never had a drug problem which instantly exploded in like a year when capitalism shown up which in turn strongly indicate it was purposeful).
It does not work in countries like USA where the government itself use drug cartels to put millions of people into jail slavery or where CIA turned entire country (Afghanistan) into one huge poppy plantation to achieve the mindbreaking result of USA with its 4,5% of world population consuming 80% of world’s opioid consumption.
2nding this. All socialists countries went and still do go hard on dismantling the drug trade, not from the bottom up by criminalizing and imprisoning poor ppl, but from the top down by imprisoning the capitalist drug kingpins, and tearing down drug markets. Capitalist countries prop up the drug trade by using it to impoverish and decimate poor and minority communities, and take a cut of the proceeds.
Ppl are usually staunchly for legalization because they’ve only experienced how capitalist countries like the US use the drug war as a tool. They don’t know what an earnest dismantling of the drug trade, done for the betterment of communities, looks like.
Weed specifically tho i’m ambivalent about… outside of medical use, the weed industry serves little to no societal value, but it’s a pretty minor vice, maybe along the same level as unhealthy food.
Ppl are usually staunchly for legalization because they’ve only experienced how capitalist countries like the US use the drug war as a tool. They don’t know what an earnest dismantling of the drug trade, done for the betterment of communities, looks like.
That’s important point. I do believe legalisation of weed will help in US particularly, but again it’s not very probable since US needs it to push people into prisons.
Elswhere… in Poland for example, legalising weed would not be even very impactful, since Poland is amphetamine country (one of biggest producer and consumer locally), so legalisation of weed would most likely immediately bring legalisation of amphetamine to the table. And legalisation of amphetamine would be really fucking terrible for the working class because a lot of people i know are already using it and it would spread to increase the exploitation.
The area I’m originally from in the U.S. has made those “meth capital of the country/world” tabloidesque lists before.
After legalization and talking to people from there, seems like the meth problem went down afterwards. Which is good.
However, I am talking about illegally manufactured meth – the type that causes houses to explode. Adderall and other amphetamines are still getting prescribed like crazy.
This is why I tend to agree heavily with the earlier Soviet Policies on most drugs
I’m not sure that I agree that this is a result of prohibition. There are many factors that play into the cause of drug epidemics. The opioid epidemic for example is a direct result of the profit motive taking precedence over the good of society. The drug in question here is prohibited to those without a prescription. Many people also turn to drugs to escape the horrendous conditions that capitalism creates for them.
Additionally, prohibition creates unregulated black markets. The only way to do away with this is by regulating access through legal channels.
Again my point, drugs are the weapon in the class war. Pity that so many socialists like getting hit with it so much. Anyways, i feel like we are discussing two different things. In DoTP they should be forbidden at least for so long as capitalist drug states like USA exist and use it like a weapon. And sure as hell communists should advocate againt drug usage.
The only way to do away with this is by regulating access through legal channels.
Like in the case of alcohol?
drugs are the weapon in the class war
They’re one of many, sure. The bourgeoisie use drugs too btw. They just have access to education, clean supply, and support for addiction.
In DoTP they should be forbidden at least for so long as capitalist drug states like USA exist and use it like a weapon.
Drugs are mostly prohibited around the world, but that doesn’t stop the American cartel from using it like a weapon basically everywhere in the global south.
And sure as hell communists should advocate againt drug usage.
In contrast to the negatives, I think there’s a lot of positive effects and experiences that drugs have to offer so I have to disagree with you on this.
Like in the case of alcohol?
In short yes. Different drugs should be regulated differently based on many different factors.
They’re one of many, sure. The bourgeoisie use drugs too btw. They just have access to education, clean supply, and support for addiction.
Yes, they also have access to better healthcare in general and their jobs are lighter but it’s not argument to drop health and job safeties for the workers.
Drugs are mostly prohibited around the world, but that doesn’t stop the American cartel from using it like a weapon basically everywhere in the global south.
Indeed but again it’s not because drugs are magic, it’s because those countries are too weak and too compradorish to effectively fight it if even there is a real will. Socialist countries, even small and weak ones had no problem.
In contrast to the negatives, I think there’s a lot of positive effects and experiences that drugs have to offer so I have to disagree with you on this.
Wew. Outside of medical usage, which already is (very poorly in some cases, like US opioid epidemic) and should be regulated by medical regulations, there are no positives to drugs except recreation tool, which can be achieved on countless other methods. Unless you advocate for amphetamine crunch, go go worker class, work harder for your boss. “Experiences” uh huh, no thanks.
In short yes. Different drugs should be regulated differently based on many different factors.
Here i will agree to the principle but most likely not to the degree.
Yes, they also have access to better healthcare in general and their jobs are lighter but it’s not argument to drop health and job safeties for the workers.
I’m happy to discuss our differences of opinions in good faith, but please don’t try and trick me into defending a position that I never took. This is a common tactic that liberals use and we have to be better than that.
I think that this idea that drugs are only harmful for society comes from either:
- Bourgeois ideology that’s taught to us both subliminally and directly through our education systems and then internalized by us throughout our lives
- Generational trauma like in the case of China and its history with it being used as a weapon to harm their society
Yes certainly, drugs can be harmful, but to outright dismiss them as only harmful (except in medicine as you stated) is not scientific.
I’m happy to discuss our differences of opinions in good faith, but please don’t try and trick me into defending a position that I never took. This is a common tactic that liberals use and we have to be better than that.
I’m not tricking you, you did used argument muddling the class conditions.
Yes certainly, drugs can be harmful, but to outright dismiss them as only harmful (except in medicine as you stated) is not scientific.
It precisely is scientific, there is tons upon tons of research about the adverse effect of drugs, coming from both capitalist and socialist researchers. Numbers of which greatly outweights the research about positive non-medical effects. Not to mention basically every article about positive effect of drugs i ever read comes from bourgeois background. Which is yet another thing to consider that the recreational drug advocates do appear to be overwhelmingly bourgeois.
Imo all drugs should be legal but none should be normalized.
This is good definition. Use it if you have to (I really understand the need, some of us are traumatized and than again punished for using the only thing that helps.), but should not be socially accepted as something for fun.
Drugs, in general, should be regulated according to public health and safety.
And there’s no compelling public health or safety case for cannabis prohibition.
Eh, I’d argue there is a public health and safety component. It causes impaired driving and lung issues in users
Private car ownership should probably be abolished tbh
100% but in the meantime that should be considered as a factor
It should.
If I were crafting drug policy I’d track consumption and intervene in the lives of problem users. A person smoking enough to hurt their lungs is an extremely heavy user and there might be something wrong. Do they not care if they live or die? Are they self medicating to escape some kind of trauma? Are they just ignorant of the dangers?
As for driving, I think we need to get cars off the road ASAP; robust public transportation infrastructure, reduced commute distances, and robust pedestrian and cycling infrastructure is critical for our survival. That really has to be among the first goals.
I think there must be an issue for any consumption of drugs like that. We should look at them as a mental health issue and should be treated as such. I agree we must remove individual transit (besides bikes) as quickly as possible
Weed is one of the safest drugs, if alcohol and nicotine are legal, weed should be too. Plus prohibition really isn’t working, the product you buy can be laced with harmful stuff and it’s often low quality, bringing it under control of the state would help significantly reducing risk, and could finance the health sector and addiction recovery.
I tend to think of these “soft drugs” on the same level as unhealthy foods. Yes they serve no societal value, and do some harm, but overall it’s so minor as to not be worth it. Might as well make twinkies illegal.
Harder drugs tho can decimate communities, which is why socialist countries historically have ruthlessly dismantled the drug trade from the top down.
If we enter in nerd emoji mode, cannabis is better than fast foods in the fact that It doesn’t cause as big as an addiction.
I will nerd emoji myself 🤓
I think it’s a fair argument to have restrictions on unhealthy foods
I personally think habitual heavy weed use is bad. I was an incredibly heavy user for a few years.
I used to think it should be illegalized.
I think now it should be "material conditions"ed out of harmful existence, if that makes sense. If we can create a socialist society with good mental health resources, good childcare resources for developing minds, and easily available stigma-free resources for people who struggle with dependency, that would check most of the boxes for me.
I don’t think we talk enough about the negative effects heavy weed use has on developing brains, or on the brains of chronic heavy users. I think more research on that side, by a socialist government, would be good.
I don’t think we talk enough about the negative effects heavy weed use has on developing brains,
I was using it regularly and it helped me sleep and survive through bad part of my life. Luckily after some time I have found therapy that works and have stopped using it at all. I like it, I would like to use it once-twice a month, but it is just not possible. Most of my friends use it daily, not even thinking about quitting.
I have contradictory emotions toward it: I see it as necessary for some people, but also see how addiction it is.
But my opinion is that biggest problem is it is illegal, so dealers are pushed to grow and sell strongest possible hybrids which have much worse effect than original native '70s type weed.
Minimum is to allow one-two plants per person, so I can grow it cleanly and choose the strength right for me. “Legalizing” it by allowing only big corporation to grow it will have adverse effect.
I agree all around!
I’m glad you were able to find some therapy that worked!
Potheads are so infuriatingly slow for real.
Except we aren’t, but okay.
They’re right though.
Bros straight up take 7 seconds to answer a ‘yes or no’ question 😡
More like you don’t notice. Nothing wrong with using it recreationally but it is infuriating to deal with ppl under influence during work.
It’s still not good to use recreationally
Every single weedbro (ya know, the kind that won’t shut up about it), i’ve run in to, has been some flavor of politically illiterate libertarian.
might be because most people are politically illiterate lol, in my case most potheads tend to be illiterate leftists yk the ones that would put a che guevara shirt but hate fidel castro.
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I think all drugs should be decriminalized at the very least. I also think we should normalize talking about them and understanding what they do and how they affect you. Education is key. I think this should however also be done in a society that seeks to eliminate poverty. Stress, poverty, and desperation is why most people turn to drugs as a form of escape.
Cannabis was made illegal by racism and cause the paper industry didn’t wanna lose out profits to hemp.
It’s quite literally medicine for me, it should be legalized completely.
Edit: I have autism and ADHD, the former of which there are no drugs to treat. It certainly doesn’t make you “lazy” if anything it makes any kind of work bearable. I feel like these anti-cannabis stances are just regurgitated propaganda to keep it illegal, because it would do a lot more good than prescription drugs.
I think some comrades get so caught up in theory and societal structure that they forget that the primary goal of all of this is to have some fucking fun! If doing drugs on your days off is how you want to do that I support you. As long as you’re able to be educated on the correct usage and side effects beforehand. And if you feel like it’s becoming a problem and you’d like some help and support then the state should provide that for you. This is all much simpler and effective to implement than prohibition btw.
And of course, medicinal use is a whole other reason as you mentioned.
haha seriously tho, weed is such a minor vice, on the same level as unhealthy food, that it’s not worth spending too much time talking about. There are harder drugs that actually do serious harm to communities that would have more worthwhile discussion about how socialist states should deal with them.
Hey man, I also medicate for similar reasons and agree that people don’t understand marijuana well enough to make informed judgment.
The Marijuana plant is composed of 10s of terpenes, cannabinoids, flavanoids, and there are tens of thousands of varieties with new ones being created everyday. The composition of each strain can be vastly different, and have a wide spectrum of effects. Not all of which are the classic “stoned” that people associate with weed.
There are non-psychoactive strains that can help with anything from anxiety, to inflammation, CFS, IBS, pain, and more.
For ADHD, Sativa strains high in CBDv, THCv, and CBG. Terpenes: Limonene, Terpoline. Caryophyellene, Pinene, Linalool. If the strain doesn’t have much CBD or CBC, consider adding some CBD flower to keep the anxiety/ paranoia down.
Yep I use those strains colloquially referred to as “green crack”, my favorite is what dispos call Jack Herer – the idea that all weed makes you lazy would be shattered in an instant if y’all saw me light up then clean my house like a maniac (because it doesn’t hurt, and I’m able to make new connections in my brain, like learning how to love labor for its own sake!)
Banning hemp is so stupid. It’s such a useful plant, from nutritional supplements to bio plastics.
I remember seeing videos of old car prototypes that used Hemp and they were surprisingly cheap to make and very durable. I think they claimed it was “10x stronger than steel” which is probably just an old timey way of saying it is very strong, idk if they actually did the math on it
weed being illegal and demonized was always an excuse to disproportionately arrest black people for cheap labor in prisons. theres really no argument for it to be criminalized from a proletarian standpoint.
i’m a regular user and have also struggled with dependency of it, i believe it should be completely legal and available to the same degree alcohol is. additionally, all people with criminal charges relating to it should be released from prison and have those charges removed. it can absolutely be used responsibly such as alcohol can be, and it is significantly less harmful than alcohol and other vices commonly found in society. if someone is allowed to have a drink at the end of the day or at a gathering with others, i don’t see a reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to also smoke at the end of the day or with others. obviously it can also be used irresponsibly, and i know what that’s like personally. but i also know that irresponsible use is almost always a symptom of a greater issue in someones life (unmitigated health issues, anxiety, depression, etc) that can be solved. i honestly have yet to hear a reason why cannabis should be criminalized that isn’t about overuse or about children using it way too early in their lives (which is harmful but can be avoided with ACTUAL education that isn’t just drug war propaganda from the DEA). also, it should be properly regulated in terms of production to maintain certain standards of quality (e.g keeping dangerous additives out of vape cartridges).
I couldn’t agree more. The DEA-approved drug talks they gave in public schools (I attended) made people CURIOUS instead of skeptical of drugs because they would make it seem like 10 joints in a lifetime is equivalent to shooting up heroin everyday of your life. Kids obviously had older brothers or cousins that had smoked pot and never died, so they’d try it. If I can find it I’ll add the link in and edit, but there was a great video on how the D.A.R.E. Program completely backfired because it overhyped how dangerous drugs were instead of just being real about how harmful drugs can be.
I do think, schools need to be educating students on the dangers of drugs far more than they do though. I hear many people downplay how dangerous many of them are and I think that should be supplemented by teaching about the dangers in schools (but also teaching about safe injections and other things like that and how they make something less dangerous)
yup. those times the cop would come to school and talk about drugs made drugs sound so awesome.
Drugs are the number one thing that I struggle to approach from a balanced Marxist perspective by far. The way that drugs are pervasive in western society, especially for those of us who grew up in very working class urban areas in North America, makes them a difficult topic for me. I have been exposed to drugs my entire life, bought, sold, consumed them, ect. I have been thinking for a while now that we need a good struggle session on the grad about drugs, usage, access, legalization and what not. I very much want to hear the perspective of comrades that come from places or backgrounds where they are not so ubiquitous.
Specifically in terms of weed, I struggle with it a lot. On one hand, I have been addicted to smoking weed for the best part of the past decade on a near daily basis, and it has definitely impacted my life in negative ways. On the other hand, it also saved me from alcohol and amphetamine abuse basically. I often think about the Frank Ocean album Blonde, where there is an interlude that talks about how marijuana makes you “lazy stupid and unconcerned” or something along those lines. That is absolutely the truth I think. I could have accomplished a lot more in my 20s were it not for the comfort of going home to smoke weed, I think anyway. I’m very sympathetic to arguments both for and against its place in society.
Putting people in prison or ruining their lives over it is obviously terrible, especially in regards to the way it has been used in the US to target the black population. That being said, I don’t think that it being a thing that most every young person gets into is good either. There must be some balance to be found, but right now I am not sure what it is. And this is just weed, that’s not even talking about harder drugs which I think are a similar but different topic.
Very interested to hear other comrade’s thoughts on this anyway, thank you for the post.
I’ve never done marijuana but other than that I definitely agree with you on how I feel about it. You described it perfectly
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Marijuana should be treated like many other drugs. Legal but with education and addiction treatment extremely available. I don’t want a revolution without dancing. I’m not the ideal proletariat and you won’t make me into a better one by banning my vices. If I want a glass of whiskey, or to smoke a bowl with some friends or after a day of work and exercise, or to spend a day tripping, banning it won’t make me spend that time reading theory or engaging in mutual aid. It will however make me resent the person or group that banned it as I either do it anyway or use that time in a different non productive pursuit of enjoyment with a similar aim.
Want to know how to make me a better proletariat? Make it so I’m not too tired after work to exercise and I have easy access to resources and community to do it (an anarchist bike coop did more for my physical health than any drug law). Want me to become more educated in my free time? Make classes easy for me to access in person and make it a fun thing to go out and do with my free time. Also encourage use of the skills I learn there, languages are great for this. Want to get me engaging in culture more? Make culture easy and welcoming to access.
And after all that, some nights, I’m still just going to want to enjoy a vice and turn off my brain or chat about anything and nothing with friends. But that’s ok. And freedom is the right to make the worse decision. And strong communities can and historically have coexisted with cannabis use. Hell a pot circle is a great place to discuss philosophy. Why shouldn’t the likes of Marx and kropotkin and Lenin and Trotsky and Davis be discussed there too?
I don’t want to live under Puritanism painted red and replacing god with the proletariat.
I don’t want to live under Puritanism painted red and replacing god with the proletariat.
Fucking this. Holy shit.
I’d even argue that psychedelics led me to ML. They opened me up to the idea that I don’t actually know shit. That much of what I thought I valued was just programming.
I’m not the ideal proletariat and you won’t make me into a better one by banning my vices.
Want to know how to make me a better proletariat?
This is not the outlook of communists, to make your political views contingent on what communists can do for you. We are communists because we care about humanity, not because they do shit for us.
And freedom is the right to make the worse decision.
This is pure liberalism, bordering on lifestylist anarchism. We communists always value community betterment over personal freedom. Weed aside, this isn’t an argument stance you should be taking for or against weed.
I don’t want to live under Puritanism painted red and replacing god with the proletariat.
This could have been said by any right winger who values their personal freedom over the proletariat. I’m dissapointed in this community for upvoting such individualist nonsense.
THANK YOU! I read this comment and was shocked it wasn’t extremely downvoted as this is all liberal ridiculousness
End of the day, the pot-smokers will smoke weed whether it’s legal or not, Cheech and Chong made a whole career out of breaking the laws around marijuana, and millions of others are breaking those same laws to this day around the world. If it’s illegal in a future society, I can guarantee that there will still be people smoking weed and it’s very likely it will not affect anyone else but those consuming it. Weed is really not that destructive, it’s used as a medical treatment for many different ailments, like glaucoma, stimulating the lateral hypothalamus for chemo patients, to write it off completely is dogmatic in my opinion
It should be legal, but it’s definitely addictive. I speak from experience on that.
From my experience it’s up there with food in terms of being addictive (that is, quite addictive, but because of people self medicating), but your body can actually develop some physical dependencies, it just won’t kill you from withdrawal like opioids or alcohol
It’s actually a very useful self-medication too, so weed probably does lower the possibility of achieving class consciousness by making people artificially less miserable. As a commie that makes me hmmm, but no one should go to prison over weed ofc
Weed triggers my food addiction 😅
It’s not addictive in my experience, but it has become necessary medicine in place of prescription drugs to treat my AuDHD.
TBF my self discipline is absolutely garbage.
I use it for this as well, but I do struggle with over use at times. I’ve never experienced any withdrawal symptoms since it’s not physically addictive, but there are periods where I realize that I haven’t taken a day off in several weeks. I feel best when I only indulge on weekends, but there are times when I need it to get my mind off some shit that happens at work or when depression hits real bad.
I’m for a de-illegalization of drugs persoanlly. Y’know cuz for blackmarkets to make sense, the product has to be illegal. Regulation is key. And in addition to that I’d advocate for a humane school system that amongst other things educates people on drugs in general. I think that’s what it comes down to, personally. Although I am not sure how other marxists in general view this topic. I think for most people, taking drugs is a way to escape the harsh reality of capitalism. Would that system be overthrown, there wouldn’t be a reason for us to get drunk really. At least that’s how I see it.
I can understand that, but alcohol definitely has a place in many traditions, some of which religious, and those won’t be easy to get rid of
