we’re fucking losing the war against austerity because of our purity.
Sounds like Patsoc Larouche bull.
Not wanting to genocide a marginalized group is a basic tenent of being anything on “the left”. I would question the good faith of anyone who drops a larger fight over discriminating others.
If anyone is doing “purity tests” it’s the fascist assholes, patriarchy upholders, and ignoramouses who can’t bother to read up on issues to toss marginalized groups under the bus. Oh we can’t focus on X if it includes THOSE people. Ewww icky! Who cares if we criminalize them!
Hitler came after the trans and queers first. Never forget that.
We are in the middle of the 3rd Red Scare. That comes with it a lavender scare. a “moral panic” tied to the irrational fear of “communism” or “the enemy” (our economic competition but they sell it as “the enemy” because they understand the public is not going to give two shits about some investor having a childish tantrum due to foriegn resources not being given to them like the entitled brats they are)
They are exploiting general ignorance about transgender and queers in their youth as a culture war to defelct from doing anything for the people while they fuck them over for exploitative means and war profiteering. A lot of the same arguments against trans are the very same bullshit arguments they made agaisnt gays.
Years from now it will be looked down upon as a very shameful time and how could our society be such assholes and stupid people. We’ve been here before.
It doesn’t need to be years from now, but our investor class is filled with fascists and sociopaths which are more than happy to chuck money and order their owned propaganda channels to whip up fears and watch us fight amongst ourselves.
Tell TERFs they are a bunch of ignorant assholes repeating the same lies and bullshit of the anti gay rights era. TERFs are not leftists. If they can not be educated then they can be tossed in the history bin. Conservative fucks are going to do their austerity shit with or without equality.
Throwing vulnerable minorities under the bus to appeal to the deffinitly genuine “we’d support you if you’d stop being mad at us for being racists and bigots” voting bloc
What a refreshing and original take that I’ve never heard before, especially from people who are deffinitly just not bigots
Comrade knows exactly what your saying. The entire premise of us having actual tangable principals being some sort problem that needs to be solved is a reactionary framing of this to begin with.
Any organization hosting anti-trans viewpoints should be immediately dissolved. It’s not a measure of purity, it’s not up for debate. Anyone who isn’t vocally pro-trans rights is not a comrade of mine. Trans rights or nothing. No facilitation of anti-trans views.
The only debate to be had is if transphobes should get re-eduaction or lined up against a brick wall.
I read exactly what you wrote and I disagreed with it. There will be no compromises with transphobes, even if we are “losing the war on austerity because of our purity.” I’ve had this exact discussion with parties I’ve organized with. PSL for instance has frequent struggle sessions over transphobia and bigotry. The conclusion I reach is always the same, no compromise with transphobia.
If you’re saying all this shit as some kind of mental gymnastics to justify voting for Democrats or whatever lib party exists for you, just do it. No one cares. Vote for whoever you want and then go back to organizing.
Furthermore you’re a nerd who should stop posting.
You make me want to post more being such a smug prick about it. I agree that we should not compromise with transphobes. Of course. The meaning of my post has been conflated because of the context which is completely fair.
I am speaking about far less black and white issues than “should someone be a fucking bigot or not” but since you’ve tied my post to that concept and have thoroughly congratulated yourself, hooray for you.
My honest question to you is:
What the fuck is a comrade who is fucking sick of being a wage slave to do other than sit on the internet and decide who else to exclude from my list of allies. I currently have ZERO allies. Is it the same for you? How can I change that when I come here only to encounter Marxist hipsters who dismiss EVERYONE and EVERYTHING except that one obscure text that I probably haven’t read about praxis.
I’d love to build a coalition but it appears it’s just an exclusive club that is too cool to attempt to change anything.
I think this not only wrong but also ahistorical. Some left-wing groups from decades ago failed because they did not have enough support for fellow marginalized people. Organizations that bring in a wide coalition of oppressed people do better than those that maintain some level of racism and homophobia and sexism, etc etc, in order to try and appease what they perceive as a broadly reactionary working class. It’s actually quite funny, because this argument fails in its own internal reasoning: we must throw entire groups under the bus - which are, by the very nature of being ostracized, more likely to be anti-capitalist - in order to attempt to appease reactionaries who probably aren’t going to vote or support us anyway. If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion, following the most reactionary worker’s demands, you will inevitably end up as pro-capitalist, racist, sexist, transphobic, etc etc, and at that point… what are you even doing? You’re just Reactionary Party #243143. No, but we’re actually gonna do communism when we take power, I swear! With our party whose candidates are mostly white reactionaries, because everybody else has been… purged from the… oh. Oh no.
I think that this view is a common one among people on the liberal-to-left pipeline, which you appear to be on. It’s a byproduct of a liberal understanding of the world, and the media does its part in constantly reinforcing the idea that left-wing ideas are fundamentally unpopular among wide swathes of the population, who are ignorant, stupid, sexist racists, and so there must be compromise if you are to succeed.
this view is a common one among people on the liberal-to-left pipeline, which you appear to be on. It’s a byproduct of a liberal understanding of the world, and the media does its part in constantly reinforcing the idea that left-wing ideas are fundamentally unpopular among wide swathes of the population, who are ignorant, stupid, sexist racists, and so there must be compromise if you are to succeed.
I am literally observing an entire government that is against the very things that you
and I
want.
I would like a benevolent group of Anarcho Syndicalists to topple this government and kill capitalism in its tracks but that’s just not the reality we’re in. Fuck me for describing REALITY, huh?
The government, as in the state, is just the tool of the bourgeoisie as a class, as per Lenin’s description of the concept. Of course they’re going to support reactionary structures, that’s what keeps them in power.
Trust me, I know that you want a magic bullet solution to this whole thing. “Oh, the problem with the Left is just that they haven’t considered X as part of their strategy!” It doesn’t work. The only thing that works is the hard work of engendering class consciousness among the population. This has been THE central problem for left-wing movements in the imperial core for literally a century. Groups have tried the whole “Alright, we’ll be homophobic, we’ll be racist, if we just get white male workers to vote us into power and support us, and then we can do communism and improve conditions for everybody” thing. It never works. The party inevitably becomes corrupted by those same reactionary impulses.
It’s also not human nature, falling in doomer resignation about “Oh, humans are just cruel and selfish and tribal!” and giving up and playing video games all day also isn’t the answer - if it was, then no socialist revolution could have possibly worked, and they demonstrably have. It’s all part of how workers in the imperial core are conditioned by their relatively higher position above workers in the periphery and semi-periphery, as well as bourgeois propaganda that reinforces (but does not fundamentally create) fear that their meagre position in the imperial core will be taken away by minority groups, and they’ll have to live like a Pakistani textile worker. It all destroys class consciousness.
Agreed. So are we all just sitting here, bitching about it, realizing that the mere thought of clawing back some representation from those baby-bombing ghouls is below us and we’d rather just waste away as neoliberal wage slaves while we wait for one brave soul among us to be the first to actually stand up to it? Picking fights with anyone who isn’t a Marxist scholar in comment sections while those that do stand up to it are executed grotesquely by that same ruling class. I guess, in the end, we’re just biding our time until we get sick of it and get Seth Rich’ed by the Clintons because we yelled a little too loud.
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Kicking bigots out is a good thing actually.
TERFs can go pound sand.
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Sounds like Patsoc Larouche bull.
Not wanting to genocide a marginalized group is a basic tenent of being anything on “the left”. I would question the good faith of anyone who drops a larger fight over discriminating others.
If anyone is doing “purity tests” it’s the fascist assholes, patriarchy upholders, and ignoramouses who can’t bother to read up on issues to toss marginalized groups under the bus. Oh we can’t focus on X if it includes THOSE people. Ewww icky! Who cares if we criminalize them!
Hitler came after the trans and queers first. Never forget that.
We are in the middle of the 3rd Red Scare. That comes with it a lavender scare. a “moral panic” tied to the irrational fear of “communism” or “the enemy” (our economic competition but they sell it as “the enemy” because they understand the public is not going to give two shits about some investor having a childish tantrum due to foriegn resources not being given to them like the entitled brats they are)
They are exploiting general ignorance about transgender and queers in their youth as a culture war to defelct from doing anything for the people while they fuck them over for exploitative means and war profiteering. A lot of the same arguments against trans are the very same bullshit arguments they made agaisnt gays.
Years from now it will be looked down upon as a very shameful time and how could our society be such assholes and stupid people. We’ve been here before.
It doesn’t need to be years from now, but our investor class is filled with fascists and sociopaths which are more than happy to chuck money and order their owned propaganda channels to whip up fears and watch us fight amongst ourselves.
Tell TERFs they are a bunch of ignorant assholes repeating the same lies and bullshit of the anti gay rights era. TERFs are not leftists. If they can not be educated then they can be tossed in the history bin. Conservative fucks are going to do their austerity shit with or without equality.
Throwing vulnerable minorities under the bus to appeal to the deffinitly genuine “we’d support you if you’d stop being mad at us for being racists and bigots” voting bloc
What a refreshing and original take that I’ve never heard before, especially from people who are deffinitly just not bigots
Trans rights are human rights, not some lofty idealistic purity test, ya bozo
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Comrade knows exactly what your saying. The entire premise of us having actual tangable principals being some sort problem that needs to be solved is a reactionary framing of this to begin with.
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“I’m a leftist, but I’m willing to debate the right of marginalized groups to exist”
“I didn’t read what OP wrote but decided to pig pile him because reality bad. Dunking on libs good.”
people read what you wrote. it sucked so they’re tearing it apart. really simple shit.
Any organization hosting anti-trans viewpoints should be immediately dissolved. It’s not a measure of purity, it’s not up for debate. Anyone who isn’t vocally pro-trans rights is not a comrade of mine. Trans rights or nothing. No facilitation of anti-trans views.
The only debate to be had is if transphobes should get re-eduaction or lined up against a brick wall.
did you read anything I wrote?
OF COURSE
I read exactly what you wrote and I disagreed with it. There will be no compromises with transphobes, even if we are “losing the war on austerity because of our purity.” I’ve had this exact discussion with parties I’ve organized with. PSL for instance has frequent struggle sessions over transphobia and bigotry. The conclusion I reach is always the same, no compromise with transphobia.
If you’re saying all this shit as some kind of mental gymnastics to justify voting for Democrats or whatever lib party exists for you, just do it. No one cares. Vote for whoever you want and then go back to organizing.
Furthermore you’re a nerd who should stop posting.
You make me want to post more being such a smug prick about it. I agree that we should not compromise with transphobes. Of course. The meaning of my post has been conflated because of the context which is completely fair.
I am speaking about far less black and white issues than “should someone be a fucking bigot or not” but since you’ve tied my post to that concept and have thoroughly congratulated yourself, hooray for you.
My honest question to you is: What the fuck is a comrade who is fucking sick of being a wage slave to do other than sit on the internet and decide who else to exclude from my list of allies. I currently have ZERO allies. Is it the same for you? How can I change that when I come here only to encounter Marxist hipsters who dismiss EVERYONE and EVERYTHING except that one obscure text that I probably haven’t read about praxis.
I’d love to build a coalition but it appears it’s just an exclusive club that is too cool to attempt to change anything.
Increasing the size of your text is incredibly obnoxious.
Nice edit
Removed by mod
Somehow I got neither
I think this not only wrong but also ahistorical. Some left-wing groups from decades ago failed because they did not have enough support for fellow marginalized people. Organizations that bring in a wide coalition of oppressed people do better than those that maintain some level of racism and homophobia and sexism, etc etc, in order to try and appease what they perceive as a broadly reactionary working class. It’s actually quite funny, because this argument fails in its own internal reasoning: we must throw entire groups under the bus - which are, by the very nature of being ostracized, more likely to be anti-capitalist - in order to attempt to appease reactionaries who probably aren’t going to vote or support us anyway. If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion, following the most reactionary worker’s demands, you will inevitably end up as pro-capitalist, racist, sexist, transphobic, etc etc, and at that point… what are you even doing? You’re just Reactionary Party #243143. No, but we’re actually gonna do communism when we take power, I swear! With our party whose candidates are mostly white reactionaries, because everybody else has been… purged from the… oh. Oh no.
I think that this view is a common one among people on the liberal-to-left pipeline, which you appear to be on. It’s a byproduct of a liberal understanding of the world, and the media does its part in constantly reinforcing the idea that left-wing ideas are fundamentally unpopular among wide swathes of the population, who are ignorant, stupid, sexist racists, and so there must be compromise if you are to succeed.
I am literally observing an entire government that is against the very things that you
and I
want.
I would like a benevolent group of Anarcho Syndicalists to topple this government and kill capitalism in its tracks but that’s just not the reality we’re in. Fuck me for describing REALITY, huh?
The government, as in the state, is just the tool of the bourgeoisie as a class, as per Lenin’s description of the concept. Of course they’re going to support reactionary structures, that’s what keeps them in power.
Trust me, I know that you want a magic bullet solution to this whole thing. “Oh, the problem with the Left is just that they haven’t considered X as part of their strategy!” It doesn’t work. The only thing that works is the hard work of engendering class consciousness among the population. This has been THE central problem for left-wing movements in the imperial core for literally a century. Groups have tried the whole “Alright, we’ll be homophobic, we’ll be racist, if we just get white male workers to vote us into power and support us, and then we can do communism and improve conditions for everybody” thing. It never works. The party inevitably becomes corrupted by those same reactionary impulses.
It’s also not human nature, falling in doomer resignation about “Oh, humans are just cruel and selfish and tribal!” and giving up and playing video games all day also isn’t the answer - if it was, then no socialist revolution could have possibly worked, and they demonstrably have. It’s all part of how workers in the imperial core are conditioned by their relatively higher position above workers in the periphery and semi-periphery, as well as bourgeois propaganda that reinforces (but does not fundamentally create) fear that their meagre position in the imperial core will be taken away by minority groups, and they’ll have to live like a Pakistani textile worker. It all destroys class consciousness.
Agreed. So are we all just sitting here, bitching about it, realizing that the mere thought of clawing back some representation from those baby-bombing ghouls is below us and we’d rather just waste away as neoliberal wage slaves while we wait for one brave soul among us to be the first to actually stand up to it? Picking fights with anyone who isn’t a Marxist scholar in comment sections while those that do stand up to it are executed grotesquely by that same ruling class. I guess, in the end, we’re just biding our time until we get sick of it and get Seth Rich’ed by the Clintons because we yelled a little too loud.