Ah yes! Enlightened Centrist and Libertarians. They will always vote GOP no matter how horrible the candidate is with some shit reason to not vote Democrat. OR they will vote for some numbnuts third party candidate with an equally shitty reason.
problem is your thinking lead to us getting to this point in the first place. y’all should have learned candidate quality matters in 2016 and it’s your fault if biden loses because he was your idea in the first place
Too many Democrats are to be sure. But not all democrats. Sanders and others have shown the way to fix this. The biggest issue is that we need younger people involved and running. In my state many Republicans run unopposed for several offices. As bad as it sounds. I would reflexively vote for any Democrat over a republican knowing nothing about either of the two.
We’re already seeing the beginnings of that with various candidates, but I agree that we need it to happen more rapidly.
The issue, in a twist of capitalist fuckery, is that running a campaign is massively expensive, and the barrier to entry is often too high for the people who should be running for office. Thankfully, there’s orgs helping with that, but it’s still an uphill battle.
They can be. At the state and national level to be sure. But even with zero budget, running someone against a Republican vs letting a Republican run unopposed. We’ll win infinitely more times just by trying. It should start with smaller offices. And work up from there.
Also, outside of presidential election years. We should donate to a group or groups that back and fund Democrat opposition to Republicans locally. Even if we have to make those groups ourselves. At the national level they’ve largely given up on many states. So donating to them often does little at home.
Democrats need a new younger bench. And this is a way to fix both the age and fash friendly issues at the same time. Perhaps then we can start to address things like getting money out of politics etc.
Sanders lost both primaries due to Millenials and Zoomers being so allergic to turnout that they even turn their noses up at their own guy in the primary.
This is easy win territory for young voters, the gap between current performance and just matching their share of the general population alone would push the DNC significantly to the left, let alone if they started showing up with the easy dominating share they could take if they spent half the effort turning out for the cause that they do painting signs and tweeting about it.
Rigging it by actually turning out for those instead of throwing a tantrum that the other voting blocks who don’t agree with them didn’t do the revolution for them?
The left’s perennial problem, “well why didn’t you fucking vote in (X previous election or primary) then?”, every time they try to blame it on something else, it flows back to some other primary or general they also vote striked or protest voted in.
The narcissist’s prayer is a fucking Mayan calendar style political prophecy to the white left and doing even the barest minimum in the way of political participation
Bernie had the primary win stolen from him alright, by on paper allies who have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do literally the first thing you should have to prove you did to be allowed to talk shit.
Every single one of you fuckers I see ranting about rigged primaries is just some flavor of Jean Paul Marat wannabe who fantasizes about being able to literally sit but naked in a bath tub all day and pass judgement upon the enemies of the revolution for everyone else to carry out for you.
I think that Democrats appear very weak right now because they’re not taking the drastic steps that are needed in order to fix a lot of the existential threats that America faces.
I truly believe that we cannot engage in capitalism as we are currently and still hold on to the planet in the face of global warming. And I don’t see anyone in US politics or even global politics willing to make the drastic changes needed to literally save for the planet.
So no, I don’t really think they’re doing what they need to be doing right now, and it’s disheartening.
indeed. weak “left” candidates leave the door open for fascism the world over. how the fuck do you tell people to “hold their noses” and expect that to work? like really, think about it for a minute. I’m mad because these idiots are ruining our country. a progressive candidate would both be a safer bet to win vs. trump and some reforms would sap fascism of it’s power, yet we’re stuck with candidates like clinton and biden for no good reason. disappointing if they win, and less likely to actually win
Don’t vote Democrat, vote third party I hear! Me, I’m like well with first past the post voting this is impractical and could help empower fascists to take over, but let’s see what options we got.
/opens box of third party candidates, before gently closing it and walking away
Yeah no, Biden still best option, these guys are nutters. It makes sense though, a sensible candidate would run in the democratic primaries, rather than hurting their own purported causes by running in the general in a first past the post election. It’s why you saw Bernie Sanders, an independent, running in the democratic primary, and not out there helping to siphon votes to fascists by running as a third party in the general against Biden.
Anyways, let’s focus on continuing to empower politicians that want to improve our voting system (usually has been democrats, though with an exception in Alaska). This starts at the local level, but we’re getting more and more federal offices now with ranked choice voting. Once you have that, then better quality third party candidates will follow, knowing they can fairly safely run without harming their own causes.
Unfortunately, there are few leftists that push the same narrative, too. And all because Biden (or Obama, or Hillary) are not the pretty pony they think they were promised or something.
Point of fact: Clinton’s centrists were so upset that they didn’t get their very first choice in 2008 that they formed a PAC to try to get McCain/Palin elected. And they’ve been screaming “no matter who” ever since.
I have no special affinity for either of the Clintons. However, it cannot be denied that there is a certain type of leftist (often very loud, and probably the minority, thankfully) that behave like petulant children when they don’t get their pretty pony, whoever that is.
Don’t get me wrong - I’d like that pretty pony, too. I just realize that even if people don’t love Hillary, she’d still be better than OJ (Orange Jesus) and so once the primaries are over, voting for donnie to really stick it to the man, or sit out, or vote for some completely unserious party like the Green Party is not really teaching anyone the lesson(s) that the people stamping their feet think they are.
OJ represents a very existential threat. Just because he flubbed the RW agenda the first time around doesn’t mean he won’t succeed in destroying America if given another chance.
LOL, I only vote for them because I have to. What is the realistic alternative? Unless we have something like ranked choice, voting for Green or staying home or writing something in is just a vote for Republicans.
So, I’m constantly belittling myself? I am not 100% ecstatic with the Democratic Party and never have been. Thing is, I recognize what an existential threat the Republican Party has become. In the general, the choice is you either support the Democratic Party (warts and all) or you are essentially supporting this threat to the country.
I wish it were otherwise, but wishing won’t make that so.
I do worry that Biden will lose though. He was far from a popular candidate to begin with and his support of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians has made him even less so. In many ways the best outcome might be for him to die in office prior to the election or for him to lose the primary. It would hurt the Democrats to have a non-incumbent running, but possibly less than running Biden. The real wildcard though is if Trump will even end up on the ballot considering his legal issues.
We need to behave as if it’s a real possibility, even if you feel optimistic about next year.
Party leadership should also be doing this and doing what they can to win voters. Instead, the only message I’m hearing is “if you breathe so much as a word of discontent, it’s because you’re a Russian troll who wants Trump to be dictator for life.”
It would hurt the Democrats to have a non-incumbent
If Biden were not on the ballot next year, the Democratic candidate would be Kamala Harris. No mainstream Democrat would challenge her in 2024, the optics would be horrible.
I feel like in most cases “the incumbent croaked” would suffice as an excuse to get some names on the board, also, maybe Kamala turns out to be the second coming of LBJ, so we’ll get some pretty good social programs everyone’s gonna forget about eventually, some significant expansions in civil rights, but also entanglement in an unpopular conflict, venturing a guess I’ll say defending Somalia Eritrea and Djibouti from invasion by Ethiopia.
Israel is unpopular enough, but being on the side of a dictatorship and a failed state that tries to force its control onto a breakaway that self governs at least better than its former fellow countrymen, all in the name of international law and order, feels like the kind of conflict Kamala would be involved in, and that folks would have misgivings over, most because “why are we sending our troops to defend a dictator?” and that select group everyone loves spouting off how you should withold from voting over it because something something respecting national sovereignty as well as the clear results in favor of independence in a fair referendum run by Ethiopia is colonialism just like how not letting Russia eat neighbors because something something little russians is colonialism.
I feel like in most cases “the incumbent croaked” would suffice as an excuse
Primaries aren’t run by excuses, they are run by rules. There are state laws regarding who can get on a ballot, Biden/Harris qualified, and Whitmer did not. Which means that when the primaries roll around, Biden/Harris will be on the state ballots, and Whitmer won’t. Which means that throughout the primary season, Biden/Harris will be racking up delegates who are loyal to Biden/Harris.
If anything happens to Biden at this point, his delegates will vote for Harris at the nominating convention. Why? Because they were chosen specifically for that purpose. You only get to be a primary delegate for Biden/Harris 2024 if you are a strong supporter of both Biden and Harris. Specifically if you support them a lot more than Whitmer, Newsom, etc. If you have doubts about either Biden or Harris, then the Biden/Harris campaign will find someone else to be a delegate. All this means Whitmer has no chance at becoming the nominee as long as Harris is still around.
As for the rest: yes, Harris might be a great president. But most people who want a different Democratic candidate do not realize that she is the only alternative for 2024.
The way that talking point gets pushed unusually hard by an unusually dedicated few using the same stupid arguments looks an awful lot like the kind of psyops campaigns I’d see when I was on Reddit during the Trump presidency.
The real long term solution is changing how we vote. Star Voting or some form of Ranked Choice. That’s how I respond along with https://fairvote.org so, in case some impressionable soul happens along, they aren’t taken in by such silliness. I encourage others to consider doing something similar.
My Roman Empire is remembering how the shitheads screamed and yelled denying responsibility on the day Dobbs came down.
Was grocery shopping with my grammy and had to pull the most hemmeroid passingly determined poker face in history to not break out into cursing them and their obvious waste of what privileges they live with to be in the position of treating this like it’s teaching the DNC a lesson.
Fucking Priv Shit Vote Karens, every last one of them, “Take me to the party’s manager right now or I’ll let the fascists take away even more of your rights!”
it’s because of people defending biden’s atrocities. like, there’s more than one person you can run, and most of the options could poll better vs. trump.
The DNC believes anyone too progressive will get stomped in the general election
Don’t forget, Dems would be conservatives in most other countries. As much as I hate to say it, I’m not convinced most of them aren’t just as beholden to corporate interests as R is.
OR
Probably a little of both of those actually. Also, maybe a dash of - boomers are going to control our politics until a bunch more boomer voters and boomer politicians die of old age.
They can and I wish they would, but it’s too late this election. Anyone else would have two weeks or so to get on the ballot and get name recognition and get people to like what they’re doing. Not really sure that’s possible.
Is Lemmy really loading whole images when loading a site, even though I can’t enlarge them without actually going to actual image source? What a good way to waste data.
The site isn’t as thorough with sourcing from there, but they have a blog post with various sources cited, and their twitter account is full of sources for their claims.
Funnily enough, I already noted in my comment that the wordpress site didn’t cite as well as I’d like. They do however have a number of sources for many of their claims (I outlined where you can find those, if you’re interested).
The Inflation Reduction Act was a big deal internationally, but I feel like you and I have already talked about it, so I don’t want to rehash it.
For everyone else’s safe, I’ll just say that even though it isn’t enough, Biden still achieved a historic level of funding for sustainability with the IRA, to the point that it forced European countries to pass similar legislation so their green energy companies could still be competitive with US green energy companies. I would’ve preferred to see legislation like this 15-20 years ago, but the second best time is always the present.
The man has kept plenty of campaign promises. Pretending he’s done nothing for the American people at every level is just dishonest. People have the right to express bullshit if they choose, and I have an equal right to call it out.
And yet people keep telling me that Biden needs to lose so that Democrats can be “taught a lesson.”
Ah yes! Enlightened Centrist and Libertarians. They will always vote GOP no matter how horrible the candidate is with some shit reason to not vote Democrat. OR they will vote for some numbnuts third party candidate with an equally shitty reason.
The common talking points these days are either, “DeMoCrAtS aRe FaScIsTs, ToO!” or, “DeMoCrAtS nEeD tO eArN mY vOtE!”
And I’m sure the next generation will thank them for taking an ideological stand right as Fascism is trying to take over. /s
Special emphasis on “too”, of course
problem is your thinking lead to us getting to this point in the first place. y’all should have learned candidate quality matters in 2016 and it’s your fault if biden loses because he was your idea in the first place
Too many Democrats are to be sure. But not all democrats. Sanders and others have shown the way to fix this. The biggest issue is that we need younger people involved and running. In my state many Republicans run unopposed for several offices. As bad as it sounds. I would reflexively vote for any Democrat over a republican knowing nothing about either of the two.
We’re already seeing the beginnings of that with various candidates, but I agree that we need it to happen more rapidly.
The issue, in a twist of capitalist fuckery, is that running a campaign is massively expensive, and the barrier to entry is often too high for the people who should be running for office. Thankfully, there’s orgs helping with that, but it’s still an uphill battle.
They can be. At the state and national level to be sure. But even with zero budget, running someone against a Republican vs letting a Republican run unopposed. We’ll win infinitely more times just by trying. It should start with smaller offices. And work up from there.
Also, outside of presidential election years. We should donate to a group or groups that back and fund Democrat opposition to Republicans locally. Even if we have to make those groups ourselves. At the national level they’ve largely given up on many states. So donating to them often does little at home.
Democrats need a new younger bench. And this is a way to fix both the age and fash friendly issues at the same time. Perhaps then we can start to address things like getting money out of politics etc.
Forget running, they need to be voting.
Sanders lost both primaries due to Millenials and Zoomers being so allergic to turnout that they even turn their noses up at their own guy in the primary.
This is easy win territory for young voters, the gap between current performance and just matching their share of the general population alone would push the DNC significantly to the left, let alone if they started showing up with the easy dominating share they could take if they spent half the effort turning out for the cause that they do painting signs and tweeting about it.
primaries aren’t free and fail elections, we saw fuckery in 2016 and 2020. why vote when the party leaders can legally rig it?
Rigging it by actually turning out for those instead of throwing a tantrum that the other voting blocks who don’t agree with them didn’t do the revolution for them?
The left’s perennial problem, “well why didn’t you fucking vote in (X previous election or primary) then?”, every time they try to blame it on something else, it flows back to some other primary or general they also vote striked or protest voted in.
The narcissist’s prayer is a fucking Mayan calendar style political prophecy to the white left and doing even the barest minimum in the way of political participation
Bernie had the primary win stolen from him alright, by on paper allies who have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do literally the first thing you should have to prove you did to be allowed to talk shit.
Every single one of you fuckers I see ranting about rigged primaries is just some flavor of Jean Paul Marat wannabe who fantasizes about being able to literally sit but naked in a bath tub all day and pass judgement upon the enemies of the revolution for everyone else to carry out for you.
We act like Democrats actually doing something to earn votes is impossible.
Not at all. But it sounds like you think they haven’t done anything.
I think that Democrats appear very weak right now because they’re not taking the drastic steps that are needed in order to fix a lot of the existential threats that America faces.
I truly believe that we cannot engage in capitalism as we are currently and still hold on to the planet in the face of global warming. And I don’t see anyone in US politics or even global politics willing to make the drastic changes needed to literally save for the planet.
So no, I don’t really think they’re doing what they need to be doing right now, and it’s disheartening.
indeed. weak “left” candidates leave the door open for fascism the world over. how the fuck do you tell people to “hold their noses” and expect that to work? like really, think about it for a minute. I’m mad because these idiots are ruining our country. a progressive candidate would both be a safer bet to win vs. trump and some reforms would sap fascism of it’s power, yet we’re stuck with candidates like clinton and biden for no good reason. disappointing if they win, and less likely to actually win
Centrist Democrats take the very idea as a greivously offensive blasphemy against all they hold dear.
Don’t vote Democrat, vote third party I hear! Me, I’m like well with first past the post voting this is impractical and could help empower fascists to take over, but let’s see what options we got.
/opens box of third party candidates, before gently closing it and walking away
Yeah no, Biden still best option, these guys are nutters. It makes sense though, a sensible candidate would run in the democratic primaries, rather than hurting their own purported causes by running in the general in a first past the post election. It’s why you saw Bernie Sanders, an independent, running in the democratic primary, and not out there helping to siphon votes to fascists by running as a third party in the general against Biden.
Anyways, let’s focus on continuing to empower politicians that want to improve our voting system (usually has been democrats, though with an exception in Alaska). This starts at the local level, but we’re getting more and more federal offices now with ranked choice voting. Once you have that, then better quality third party candidates will follow, knowing they can fairly safely run without harming their own causes.
Unfortunately, there are few leftists that push the same narrative, too. And all because Biden (or Obama, or Hillary) are not the pretty pony they think they were promised or something.
Point of fact: Clinton’s centrists were so upset that they didn’t get their very first choice in 2008 that they formed a PAC to try to get McCain/Palin elected. And they’ve been screaming “no matter who” ever since.
I have no special affinity for either of the Clintons. However, it cannot be denied that there is a certain type of leftist (often very loud, and probably the minority, thankfully) that behave like petulant children when they don’t get their pretty pony, whoever that is.
Don’t get me wrong - I’d like that pretty pony, too. I just realize that even if people don’t love Hillary, she’d still be better than OJ (Orange Jesus) and so once the primaries are over, voting for donnie to really stick it to the man, or sit out, or vote for some completely unserious party like the Green Party is not really teaching anyone the lesson(s) that the people stamping their feet think they are.
OJ represents a very existential threat. Just because he flubbed the RW agenda the first time around doesn’t mean he won’t succeed in destroying America if given another chance.
The only thing you want is unquestioning worship of the party from everyone to your left.
LOL, I only vote for them because I have to. What is the realistic alternative? Unless we have something like ranked choice, voting for Green or staying home or writing something in is just a vote for Republicans.
And you only choose to constantly belittle anyone who isn’t 100 percent ecstatic with everything the party does because you want to.
So, I’m constantly belittling myself? I am not 100% ecstatic with the Democratic Party and never have been. Thing is, I recognize what an existential threat the Republican Party has become. In the general, the choice is you either support the Democratic Party (warts and all) or you are essentially supporting this threat to the country.
I wish it were otherwise, but wishing won’t make that so.
I do worry that Biden will lose though. He was far from a popular candidate to begin with and his support of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians has made him even less so. In many ways the best outcome might be for him to die in office prior to the election or for him to lose the primary. It would hurt the Democrats to have a non-incumbent running, but possibly less than running Biden. The real wildcard though is if Trump will even end up on the ballot considering his legal issues.
Good. Everybody should think this. Thinking Trump can’t possibly win is how he won in 2016.
We need to behave as if it’s a real possibility, even if you feel optimistic about next year.
Party leadership should also be doing this and doing what they can to win voters. Instead, the only message I’m hearing is “if you breathe so much as a word of discontent, it’s because you’re a Russian troll who wants Trump to be dictator for life.”
100% this.
If Biden were not on the ballot next year, the Democratic candidate would be Kamala Harris. No mainstream Democrat would challenge her in 2024, the optics would be horrible.
Mmm, I doubt it, even other dems don’t like her very much right now
I’d want Gretchen Whitmer to go for it,
Doesn’t really matter if she is well liked, no other Democrat will challenge her in 2024. For starters, it is too late to get on the primary ballot.
I feel like in most cases “the incumbent croaked” would suffice as an excuse to get some names on the board, also, maybe Kamala turns out to be the second coming of LBJ, so we’ll get some pretty good social programs everyone’s gonna forget about eventually, some significant expansions in civil rights, but also entanglement in an unpopular conflict, venturing a guess I’ll say defending Somalia Eritrea and Djibouti from invasion by Ethiopia.
Israel is unpopular enough, but being on the side of a dictatorship and a failed state that tries to force its control onto a breakaway that self governs at least better than its former fellow countrymen, all in the name of international law and order, feels like the kind of conflict Kamala would be involved in, and that folks would have misgivings over, most because “why are we sending our troops to defend a dictator?” and that select group everyone loves spouting off how you should withold from voting over it because something something respecting national sovereignty as well as the clear results in favor of independence in a fair referendum run by Ethiopia is colonialism just like how not letting Russia eat neighbors because something something little russians is colonialism.
Primaries aren’t run by excuses, they are run by rules. There are state laws regarding who can get on a ballot, Biden/Harris qualified, and Whitmer did not. Which means that when the primaries roll around, Biden/Harris will be on the state ballots, and Whitmer won’t. Which means that throughout the primary season, Biden/Harris will be racking up delegates who are loyal to Biden/Harris.
If anything happens to Biden at this point, his delegates will vote for Harris at the nominating convention. Why? Because they were chosen specifically for that purpose. You only get to be a primary delegate for Biden/Harris 2024 if you are a strong supporter of both Biden and Harris. Specifically if you support them a lot more than Whitmer, Newsom, etc. If you have doubts about either Biden or Harris, then the Biden/Harris campaign will find someone else to be a delegate. All this means Whitmer has no chance at becoming the nominee as long as Harris is still around.
As for the rest: yes, Harris might be a great president. But most people who want a different Democratic candidate do not realize that she is the only alternative for 2024.
The way that talking point gets pushed unusually hard by an unusually dedicated few using the same stupid arguments looks an awful lot like the kind of psyops campaigns I’d see when I was on Reddit during the Trump presidency.
The real long term solution is changing how we vote. Star Voting or some form of Ranked Choice. That’s how I respond along with https://fairvote.org so, in case some impressionable soul happens along, they aren’t taken in by such silliness. I encourage others to consider doing something similar.
We already learned that lesson - in 2016.
People have no idea how to move the overton window.
My Roman Empire is remembering how the shitheads screamed and yelled denying responsibility on the day Dobbs came down.
Was grocery shopping with my grammy and had to pull the most hemmeroid passingly determined poker face in history to not break out into cursing them and their obvious waste of what privileges they live with to be in the position of treating this like it’s teaching the DNC a lesson.
Fucking Priv Shit Vote Karens, every last one of them, “Take me to the party’s manager right now or I’ll let the fascists take away even more of your rights!”
it’s because of people defending biden’s atrocities. like, there’s more than one person you can run, and most of the options could poll better vs. trump.
Such as?
Why can’t democrats run a better candidate?
Because the party isn’t going to defy the incumbent president. This should be obvious.
It’s not obvious, please explain why not. He’s worse for their chance of winning.
The why not is that he wants to run again and he’s the president. Why do you think the Democrats would say no to him? He’s the president.
Those reasons are total dog shit
What do you think happens when you tell a president no? Do you think he says, “okay then, you know best.”
In a functioning democracy or in the United States
I think you can figure that out based on everything we’ve been talking about so far.
Voting is a chess move, not a love letter.
Absconding with that quote.
Ok you’re being out played when your best move is vote Biden
Tell me you don’t understand how party politics & voting work without telling me you don’t understand how party politics & voting work.
“I’m not owned that’s just how the game is played”
-person who’s totally getting owned
Depends how cynical you feel today.
IMO it’s either:
The DNC believes anyone too progressive will get stomped in the general election
Don’t forget, Dems would be conservatives in most other countries. As much as I hate to say it, I’m not convinced most of them aren’t just as beholden to corporate interests as R is.
OR
Probably a little of both of those actually. Also, maybe a dash of - boomers are going to control our politics until a bunch more boomer voters and boomer politicians die of old age.
They can and I wish they would, but it’s too late this election. Anyone else would have two weeks or so to get on the ballot and get name recognition and get people to like what they’re doing. Not really sure that’s possible.
Biden needs to deliver on at least one campaign promise - be a 1 term President, and drop out of the race now, so we don’t risk the election.
His ego, nor the desires of his donors, are not worth sacrificing democracy.
Your wish is granted.
Is Lemmy really loading whole images when loading a site, even though I can’t enlarge them without actually going to actual image source? What a good way to waste data.
what does “reignited the WHO” mean? some of these are so vauge as to be meaningless.
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Only on the internet:one side of the argument posts a lengthy list of facts, and the response is simply “fuck all”
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Bottom right of the image literally reads: “List source: whatbidenhasdone.wordpress.com”
The site isn’t as thorough with sourcing from there, but they have a blog post with various sources cited, and their twitter account is full of sources for their claims.
No I mean a source that is easily and clearly placed in front of me that I can still complain about not being the “correct” sources. /s
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Funnily enough, I already noted in my comment that the wordpress site didn’t cite as well as I’d like. They do however have a number of sources for many of their claims (I outlined where you can find those, if you’re interested).
The Inflation Reduction Act was a big deal internationally, but I feel like you and I have already talked about it, so I don’t want to rehash it.
For everyone else’s safe, I’ll just say that even though it isn’t enough, Biden still achieved a historic level of funding for sustainability with the IRA, to the point that it forced European countries to pass similar legislation so their green energy companies could still be competitive with US green energy companies. I would’ve preferred to see legislation like this 15-20 years ago, but the second best time is always the present.
The man has kept plenty of campaign promises. Pretending he’s done nothing for the American people at every level is just dishonest. People have the right to express bullshit if they choose, and I have an equal right to call it out.
Wait, you not only want him to be a one-term president, you don’t even want him to finish his term? We get President Harris until 2024?