• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    Socialism/Communism/Anarchism. Barely anyone who actually understands them and the theory supporting them hates them, but tons of people have been fed Red Scare propaganda on the matter.

    • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Well, those who most benefit from the status quo also understand those concepts quite well, but oppose them.

    • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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      6 months ago

      If only there wasn’t a wealthy, parasitic, world-dominating country which would violently overthrow (or at least try) any country which didn’t kowtow to capitalism, and the Parasite Class.

      • PineRune@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        I think most real-life examples have been plagued by corruption to the point that they fall into a different category altogether.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          6 months ago

          Historical examples, like Revolutionary Catalonia for Anarchism, and the USSR, Cuba, Maoist China, Vietnam, etc. for Marxism-Leninism, absolutely count as Socialist and should be learned from, both the good and bad.

          If you dismiss them as “not real Socialism,” you fail to learn from what did work in those instances, like literacy rates and life expectancy skyrocketing. If you dismiss the bad, you make the equal mistake of not accounting for the flaws in systems like Soviet Democracy, which resulted in a corrupt Politburo with outsized power.

          Study them in detail and find what to take and what to leave behind.

          • Sybil@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            communism is a classless stateless moneyless society. is that how you’d describe any of those societies? i wouldn’t. because it’s not true. but there are certainly anarchist and communist societies that have existed.

        • UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca
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          6 months ago

          I think we should learn from that. Maybe all forms of power solely resting within the governing function invites corruption.

          I haven’t given up yet on it because capitalism is definitely not working right now but there is a form of communism that you can have an informed and rational fear of.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            6 months ago

            Generally, if you have a system where more powerful people are more influential, you invite yourself to corruption.

            In Capitalism, this expresses itself in Capitalists buying politicians.

            In Marxism-Leninism, this is expressed in the upper Soviets becoming more entrenched and corrupt.

            The solution for Socialism is to make the upper rungs directly accountable to the masses. The solution for Capitalism is to abolish Capitalism.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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        6 months ago

        Cuba, a poor blockaded small island nation, has a higher life expectancy than the global hegemon and richest nation ever

        The USSR went from a monarchist backwater to a industrial society, defeating the nazis and sending the first satellite into space, in the span of 40 years.

        China, under socialism, is now on track to shatter US hegemony through the power of socialist economic management and mutually beneficial cooperation.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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      6 months ago

      Historians studying them don’t hate, true, but we also don’t hate plague or dog shit on the road.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        6 months ago

        That’s a bit of a non-answer, isn’t it? I’m clearly referring to implementing leftist structures today, not historically.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          6 months ago

          Never tried for real, I see.

          Why would one hate right ideas then, of the libertarian kind.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            6 months ago

            Read my other comment, it absolutely has been tried. If your point is that the relatively few historical examples are a sufficient sampling of data to determine that people sharing tools can never work, then I’m afraid you don’t understand numbers, nor historical analysis.

            You can learn from what has and has not worked, and analyze structures. It’s possible! You just have to do it.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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              6 months ago

              If your point is …

              You know, of course, that the answer to that “if” is usually “no”, and this is called a strawman argument.

              … then I’m afraid …

              No reason to be afraid! Sing and dance and hug your family, friends and house animals.

              … relatively few historical examples … people sharing tools …

              People have been sharing tools since eating less fortunate breeds of people, the optimal architecture of that is the point of contention.