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I’m a leftist, not a libertarian, but I always feel compelled to bring up a specific point in Snowden’s defense when he is mentioned to divisive opinions:
He did speak up correctly, using the correct channels, and the proper channels told him to shut the fuck up.
Then he again did what he did the rightest way he could, by giving the data to one of the oldest members of the fourth estate, the press, to decide proper course, ONLY AFTER the primary state failed him spectacularly.
Do you know why he had to out himself? Why didn’t he give stuff to the papers and stay hidden?
They were state secrets with a very well documented list of individuals to which it had been disclosed and he was documented as having had taken issue with the program. It’s reasonable that it would be traced back to him and that he would not be given protections or a fair trial.
Which still would have given him more time to get to somewhere like Cambodia that doesn’t extradite. No this was an ego thing. Either that or he was already compromised by the Chinese and they demanded it to trap him.
It seems more likely that he figured he’d be found out anyway, and decided there might be some safety in the light. Everyone knows him and what he did, instead of just some 3 letter agency that could suicide him without anyone ever noticing.
Oh you couldn’t find anyone could you?We haven’t even done that with guys who handed stuff straight to the Russians without any whistleblowing. Straight up honest to God espionage. They’re in prison still, but they aren’t dead.ETA, well that sucks. I posted this on the wrong comment chain. But I’m leaving it up because it’s true. We don’t kill our turncoats. We just put them in prison for around 20 years.
And had he stopped there it would be fine. He then went on to give secret documents to China and Russia.
This work survey is anonymous and won’t be associated with any identifying information. Feel free to voice your authentic opinions.
Proceeds to login via OKTA to access survey.
“I don’t feel strongly about anything” if it’s required, deleted email if it’s not
At work, you keep your opinions to yourself.
It doesn’t matter if you are asked for your opinion by your boss, in an “anonymous” survey, or by a co-worker at a seemingly innocuous kids birthday party. There are no friends in business. Stick to business. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
I’m not a very political person. I don’t have strong feelings about it sir. Taking care of business is my priority.
Stay safe out there folks.
deleted by creator
I neither agree nor disagree.
Lol that happened when I worked at Chase many years ago… I didn’t fall for it, but several of my colleagues did… As I recall, there were some legal issues that came out of it…
He revealed massive warrantless domestic surveillance. The 1700s equivalent would be if the post office made copies of every single letter everyone sent and then promised not to read them unless the sender or recipient was one day subject to a valid warrant. Whoever revealed this info would’ve been a hero and a patriot back then, and it should be the same today.
Snowden leaked his info about these programs more than a decade ago. If that is what the three-letter agencies and big tech were capable of doing in secret then, just imagine the shady shit they’re doing now.
Watching us via the front camera while we poop?
If that is what the three-letter agencies and big tech were capable of doing in secret then, just imagine the shady shit they’re doing now.
It’s publicly available information that almost all social media companies have all of your private posts and the ability to release them to anyone they desire. People just don’t care.
Do you know why mail seals existed back then?
They used seals for mail? No wonder delivery took so long.
TIL a group of seals is called a ‘pony’
I mean if they could have feasibly done that in 1700 they 100% would have and probably not even hid it in the courts like today
Read the Cuckoo’s Egg from 1989. NSA were at the very least tapping all international calls in the 1980s.
The people that cared knew about this for a long time.
All Snowden did was give up sensitive intel to foreign adversaries and got NSA capabilities that anyone that cared already knew about talked about more in the media.
And nothing has really changed. There’s no international law against this so there’s nothing preventing Russia and China from looking at your data. There’s also nothing prevent five eyes countries from spying on each other’s citizens and sharing it back with the country whose citizens they spied on. Do you feel better that the NSA is spying on Canadians while Canadians spy on US citizens and the two countries exchange what they have on each other’s citizens?
If that is what the three-letter agencies and big tech were capable of doing in secret then, just imagine the shady shit they’re doing now.
They would have all data that any company has about you that has been sold to a marketing company. It’s trivial to create a shell company posing as a ad agency and legally buy all that data. And given the enshittification of everything there is data on basically everything you do. You buy groceries with a loyalty card? It’s on an NSA database being analyzed by an AI for suspicious activity. You didn’t read the fine print when you got that loyalty card that said they would share the data to third parties? It means the data will be shared to anyone that’s willing to pay them for it, and that includes the NSA. Why do you think they were giving you that discount? Because they’re nice? Nope, it’s because they can sell your data.
This is happening because it’s the job of the NSA to gather data for intelligence purposes. They will sponge up any data they can legally obtain. And if you agree to data being shared with third parties, you’ve agreed that the data can be shared with the NSA. So it is.
So now you understand that the NSA is likely doing these things because they can, do we need another traitor to hand over classified data to foreign adversaries to make you aware of it?
Do you feel better that the NSA is spying on Canadians while Canadians spy on US citizens and the two countries exchange what they have on each other’s citizens?
but then,
do we need another traitor to hand over classified data to foreign adversaries to make you aware of it?
Government doing it in secret vs a citizen exposing it? I’m going to back my fellow citizen in this one.
This is happening because it’s the job of the NSA to gather data for intelligence purposes. They will sponge up any data they can legally obtain. And if you agree to data being shared with third parties, you’ve agreed that the data can be shared with the NSA. So it is.
That’s some serious bootlicking there, you think they’re only collecting “legally” obtained information? Let’s also gloss over the anti-consumer practices that companies employ to obtain that sweet third party data on you.
“you’ve agreed that the data can be shared with the NSA. So it is.” - JFC you have some weird logic going on in your head. Let’s just forget what’s required in today’s society, the data that has to be shared to perform basic functions like employment now adays. The average citizen is not a privacy expert and no one is educated in K-12 to be consensual informed.
I’m going to back my fellow citizen in this one.
Your “fellow citizen” is a citizen of Russia. Ya think he’s going to expose all the data collection Russia is doing? LOL
Let’s also gloss over the anti-consumer practices that companies employ to obtain that sweet third party data on you.
Indeed. Everyone glosses that over because it’s considered acceptable for every scumbag marketing person to know everything about you so they can manipulate you into buying shit you don’t need. That’s fine as long because you’re too paranoid over the NSA to give a shit about the fact that privacy doesn’t even exist anymore. You’re data is so boring to the NSA it gets filtered out with one pass of an algorithm. The marketing companies are data mining the shit out of your data.
There’s no such thing as privacy now, the only thing Snowden accomplished was compromising intel which Russia rewarded him for. Dude is a straight up traitor.
I don’t think it was feasible at the time (2013) for the average American to know and understand the concept that their government was capturing essentially all mobile cellular and internet communications for storage and analysis in giant fusion centers.
The real tragedy is that many people now know and still don’t care, or have given into this bizarre cynical defeatism that we might as well just accept it. Hard disagree on those points.
Any US intelligence agency or military unit operating on US soil against US citizens is supposed to be illegal.
That is law enforcement’s territory.
yup
He would have been a hero if he had just stayed in place or gone directly to a non-extradition country without a ton of secrets. Instead this dumbass ends up in China with several laptops and hard drives.
You never watched the interview, did you?
IDK what this has to do with Libertarianism, but I agree with the meme
Free speech isn’t exclusive to libertarianism but it is truly a core value of that philosophy
This guy is the definition of a modern day hero. If you haven’t read his book “permenant record”, get on it
Everything he says is a rambling monotonous bag of nothing. I, for one, could not bear to read any book he wrote.
I mean he literally just doc dropped a crap ton of classified files that he didn’t even need to explain lol. You could always go read those and learn how much the NSA spies on the american public.
Could you link an example of the rambling? One persons view of monotanous rambling is another persons fascinating dialogue lolol
Well it’s not really dialogue if it’s just one person’s words…
A few years ago I was fascinated with him for understandable reasons, but every video I clicked on, he was just “blah blah blah blah blah blah,” and try as I might, I could comprehend absolutely none of it. Maybe it’s a “me” problem. But I’m sure we’ve all known the type of narcissistic people who can talk for hours without saying anything of substance, their intentness & confidence draws people in, that’s how he rubs me. That kind of person. Narcissistic person who can talk for hours without saying anything of substance.
Yeah, no, I have seen his interviews, he goes very well for the points, makes a lot of sense, he only stops when asked for solutions, as he does not see himself as the one who should choose for others.
He talks a lot about things non-IT people understand very little, which I understand goes far against him, but usually he does not have two hours to explain everything to the laymen.
But he says a lot of substance, and it had me worried from the start that people will reject his message. And we all will pay for it.
well that is reassuring to hear. I will take your word for it that every time Snowden opens his mouth he is saying valuable things, although I can’t comprehend any of it.
We already know the gist of everything he has said. We are being spied on. What can we do about it? I’m addicted to my smartphone. But I am nobody and nothing so… I carry on
You can try to avoid making calls and send SMS, instead use Signal or Matrix for contacting people.
Remove Google from your life - gmail is tricky, most use protonmail, search with duckduckgo or searxng or kagi, youtube is basically without 100% replacement, but there is still vimeo and peertube.
Drop Windows, everyone will help you with Linux on PC.
Phones go very tricky, iOS has no alternative that I know of, Androids have degoogled versions.
I’ve been TRYING to do the right things!
✅ Protonmail
✅ Linux
✅ Android
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In 2019 I tried to switch to protonmail but I was apparently too hypervigilant about it because I didn’t provide a backup email because I was trying to de-google, well my lack of a backup bit me in the behind when protonmail wouldn’t let me get in with my password, they told me my password was wrong, but I swear it was right, and they wouldn’t let me back in ever again.
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And last time I bought a laptop I took it to a computer repair place and told them to take off windows and put on Linux. They did it. I didn’t know how to use Linux, anyway that laptop which was supposed to be native with Windows, constantly glitched and rejected every attempt I made at using Linux.
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And I exclusively use Android, I have no Apple products whatsoever.
In summary, as you can see I’ve been TRYING to do the right thing!
✅ Protonmail
✅ Linux
✅ Android
-
Don’t knock it till you try it. One of the few books I would give a 10/10
I have nothing but respect for Edward Snowden.
#FreeSnowden
“No, we mean stuff about the bad guys. Not us.”
For EU citizens: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32019L1937
The states shall provide a secure and anonymous channel to enabling safe whistleblowing. A software for this is globaleaks.org
A state should provide a channel to anonymously blow the whistle. Then, this information is forwarded to the correct authorities.
This sounds awesome, but what authorities exactly are the correct ones? What happens when I want to report THE authorities?
Actually, there are multiple instances one can use to whitleblow. Any company above 50 employees should host such an instance as well. Therefore you can chose where to whistleblow.
After whistleblowing you get an acknowledgement within seven days. After three months they have to report back what actions have been started about the topic.
The instances of the state have to additionally share all recieved tips to the public annually. There is another instance for the EU hosted.
The exact national law may differ within EU countries. And I am not a law expert as well.
Anyhow you therefore have a channel to report any authority.
“Not like that…”
No not like that
Luckily he was able to escape Russia safely. If he stayed in the US he would’ve been tortured just like Chelsea Manning and Assange.
Did Manning allege torture?
From what I remember in her memoir, she said she pent about 2 months in what was essentially a holding cell in Kuait after she was arrested, with little to no stimulation, and limited human interaction.
I’m sorry did she allege she was held in an empty area of the detainment center or that they kept her hooded, gagged, and under loud music? One is sensory deprivation torture and the other is normal military detainee transport.
our re-definition of ‘torture’ excludes waterboarding, hog-tying, force-feeding, and sexual assault.
According to the federal government even the people at Guantanamo weren’t tortured.
We literally torture people who have never been seen by a judge. This country is fucking evil
That’s not what I asked though.
The US hasn’t had Assange to be able to torture him and I’m not aware of any allegations of Manning being tortured.
A group of ex Intelligence community and State Department people destroyed my life when i refused to facilitate their ability to do war crimes.
Druged, kidnapped, raped, tortured, electrocuted, etc.
The USA has become a nation built with lies, oppression, and extra judicial deadly force.
Not a lot of respect for him since he went to an enemy state that is far worse in the human rights field. If you feel like you need to break the law to share classified info you should be willing to go to jail for it, not run off to fucking Russia.
Disagree, that gives the corrupt establishment way more power to control the narrative, as opposed to the whistleblower being able to continue spreading the message, which Snowden has done, including publishing a book. Nobody went to jail over the crimes he exposed, the justice system has no credibility here.
Russia is far worse in every respect than the US. It’s just hypocrisy and I question his real motives. Lots of people have written books from prison.
Russia being better or worse isn’t relevant here. If Snowden moved to a NATO country he would easily be extradited back to the US. Russia is one of the US’s biggest rivals, which means Russia has an active incentive to keep him “safe” so he can keep whistleblowing.
It is absolutely relevant. If you feel like breaking the law and releasing classified information is worth doing be a fucking man and take the punishment. Don’t bitch off to a dictatorship enemy state and give them access to everything you know from your classified work.
I am very skeptical that he would have been allowed to write and publish a book from prison.
And I’m very skeptical that he didn’t betray his country and give Russia more intel.
Blow the whistle. But don’t run away to another country with several laptops and hard drives of shit. Yeah if they figure out it was you, you’re going to prison for a few years. However you will be released by a future president, if you’re even still in prison by that time. That’s the pattern, it’s been the pattern since the late cold war.
if you’re even still in prison by that time.
Gets Navalned
Wrong country.
Depends on certain conditions
Name one whistleblower who’s died in prison in the US. Heck name one person convicted of espionage who we’ve killed since the Rosenbergs.
Heck name one person convicted of espionage who we’ve killed since the Rosenbergs.
What makes you so sure, that you would have heard about it? I mean, the US is a country which had killed god-knows-how-many people by drone strikes… in a country not at war with the US.
The literal second a drone strike was considered for an American everyone knew. Try again.
Are you sure? Well… i am no US citizen, but i would not trust my government to not arrange some ‘happy accident’ if the stakes are high enough.
I would not trust ANY government to not murder, blackmail or kidnap to protect its dirty secrets.
Jeffrey Epstien
Wait, are you saying he was a spy and giving secrets to Russia?
