It was really annoying back when I was a rightist but it’s even more frustrating now that I am a Marxist-Leninist that so-called “leftists” denounce pretty much every single successful socialist experience in history.
It was really annoying back when I was a rightist but it’s even more frustrating now that I am a Marxist-Leninist that so-called “leftists” denounce pretty much every single successful socialist experience in history.
I’d argue that for several of the “experiences” on this list that success really depends on who you are and they aren’t or weren’t so great for everyone. And, certainly they all have socialist policies, but similar how it would be inaccurate to define the US as entirely capitalist, socialism isn’t the only defining characteristic. China, for instance, is more strongly characterized by its fascism.
And the DPRK? By what measurement is this considered successful?
That said, I’m certainly not intimately familiar with all of them, and if socialism didn’t have positive successes in the world I wouldn’t support it.
Idk, I’m pretty sure something pretty major happened ~70 years ago? I can’t really remember though…
Just kidding I’m not a liberal who forgets history if the media isn’t shoveling its interpretation of it into my mouth, the DPRK was bombed into the fucking stone age, and didn’t have the United States to pump billions and billions of dollars to rebuild itself, just some help from the USSR and China who couldn’t afford to pump anywhere near the amount of capital into their economy like the US could into Japan and SK, so considering all that I think they’ve been quite successful for their material conditions
I haven’t been since the pandemic, and I know it hit them pretty hard, but it was a much nicer place than a lot of liberals think it is. They are always opening new housing projects that are actually REALLY nice. Wide variety of food and services, as long as you don’t care about having specific brand names on everything you consume. The best part was definitely that people actually had time to live.
I lived in SK (about one year) and the DPRK (aobut three months) thanks to my grad school research, and I can say that I would much prefer to live in the DPRK than SK again. SK is an absolute unchecked exploitative capitalist hellscape, I am not sure there is a country on earth with worse work-life balance. I live in Japan and SK makes us look like a workers paradise.
Wow that’s pretty cool! I’d love to visit the DPRK one day but it’s literally illegal for me as an American :/
Maybe it will be possible again, it wasn’t too long ago Americans could still go. Would be happy to answer any questions you had then, though my trip wasn’t the normal tourism one so probably a bit different.
Oh I’d love to hear about your experience! I imagine since you had such an extended stay, you didn’t have any kind of chaperone with you?
On arrival I did, but it felt more like a guide than a minder. Once I was set up at the university I was more or less left to my own devices around campus. I took a few trips to other areas and had a guide again, but they never really stopped me from doing anything. Mostly helped with communication. I do speak Korean but not perfectly, and there are some dialect differences here or there I struggled with.
I definitely was not watched 24/7 like people would lead you to believe.
Makes sense. Jeez it’s insane just how exaggerated and pervasive western propaganda is…like, I’ve done a good amount of research to try and undo my perceptions about the DPRK, but even still I have the thought that “surely there must be something that’s accurate in the media that’s just wildly exaggerated”. But I guess US media does just make up whatever the fuck they want.
Did you visit more rural towns? What were they like? I was checking the sattelite images out on Google earth and it looks like they’re really tiny and spread out. Also did you go to the Waterpark? Lol
I did vist a couple smaller towns. They seemed very similar to rural towns in my country (Japan) at first glance. People were friendly. All of the ones I went to had a community center that people seemed to use pretty often after work; they seemed to offer classes and further education type programs. When I talk about the DPRK having way better work-life balance than the south, that is one of the big things that jumped out to me. They were probably about what you would expect from rural farming communities for the most part.
If you are talking about Munsu, it opened after my last visit, so I did not have the chance to go. Looks fun though.
The North was also had better conditions than the South before the 90s when like idk probably nothing important happened in the 90s
Yes exactly
You have brainworms. Worms for brains. I say this in the most heartfelt way possible. You probaby think you’ve figured the world out, but all you’re doing is getting further away from any reasonable assessment. You’re veering into mysticism and you think you understand stuff, but the more you think about it the less you understand.
I know because all of us here on Lemmygrad have had that happen to us.
It comes from the media mostly because where else would you get the idea that China is fascist if you didn’t hear about it in the media?
It’s not that complicated.
You can get rid of those brainworms if you actually read marxist theory.
Again, I know because it happened to all of us here on Lemmygrad when we opened a book.
You’re right, the US is also defined by its fascism. I have no idea where you pulled that out from regarding China. Like you look at the US, you look at China, and you decide China is the fascist? You realize you’re giving arguments for a mounting war against China when you say idiotic stuff like that, right?
If you don’t realize it, then you need to do more reading.
America is pretty much a shadow government run by oil corporations, weapons manufacturers and finance capital where Amazon warehouse workers are not able to form unions because the government lets Amazon wield their trillion dollar union busting might with no repercussions but please tell us how it is not entirely capitalist.
How would you define it then?
I would also like to know your definition of fascism
According to those people, China is fascist because of the made-up genocide, as well as the liberals’ misconception of authority. That’s enough to call China fascist in their view. I hope this person answers you because I want to ask wtf they think is the motivation for this bizarre genocide. I always wanted to question a liberal about this but I never had the opportunity.
I knew right when they said that China was fascist that we had a liberal on our hands.
Obvious before that I think
Please give some examples of Chinese fascism (with some kind of evidence, not just baseless allegations by bourgeois media), and your definition of fascism
Like Cuba, the DPRK is extremely successful considering the genocidal sanctions imposed upon it by the imperial core. The level of convenience certainly varies between cities like Pyongyang and rural areas, but they’ve been severely restricted by the aforementioned sanctions as well as the destruction caused by the US during the invasion of Korea (destroying most large buildings and killing 20% of the population)
Okay.
Am I doing this right?
What evidence do you have to suggest China is fascist? They don’t follow any of the characteristics of fascism. And the DPRK has liften a huge amount of its population out of extreme poverty, defended national sovereignty and ended the (prior to its formation) extremely common famines. They’ve also caused the industrialization of the country which has created a more stable nation. They also helped stop the growth of US imperialism in the Korean peninsula.
Did you really just call China fascist? 🫢