Globally, only one in 50 new cars were fully electric in 2020, and one in 14 in the UK. Sounds impressive, but even if all new cars were electric now, it would still take 15-20 years to replace the world’s fossil fuel car fleet.

The emission savings from replacing all those internal combustion engines with zero-carbon alternatives will not feed in fast enough to make the necessary difference in the time we can spare: the next five years. Tackling the climate and air pollution crises requires curbing all motorised transport, particularly private cars, as quickly as possible. Focusing solely on electric vehicles is slowing down the race to zero emissions.

  • capital@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    67
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    10 months ago

    I don’t doubt this at all.

    But it’s going to be 10 degreees Fahrenheit on my way to work tomorrow.

    Public transit that doesn’t double my commute time is what’s going to get me to stop driving. Not a bike.

    • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      It’s not strictly speaking impossible to bike in below-freezing temperatures, although I’ll concede that it’s definitely not as fun as it is in spring/summer/autumn-conditions. It requires winter tyres and dressing approximately the same as for comparable winter sports, with more emphasis on warmer dressing for the extremeties. Hands in particular are very exposed when riding in winter, doubling up the gloves is a wise choice.

      Note that winter biking doesn’t have to replace every trip to be useful - I don’t commute by bike in the current conditions, as transit is just a much better alternative during this season. I still use my bike to go shopping and for some other trips, further supporting the possibility of not having to own a car.

      • Ibex0@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        Ice, salt, snowbanks narrowing the road surface. I haven’t seen a bicycle in months and I understand why.

        • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          It’s definitely not as pleasant, and the required prep has led to a culture of not biking during winter conditions in many places.

          Ice is often not a problem with studded tires - it can be, but it’s rarely been my primary concern when out and about. Loosely packed snow - the kind where you sink down a bit - has been far more problematic.

          Salt is a double-edged sword in many ways. It will corrode your bike a lot faster, so being good about cleaning becomes more important in winter, and you might want to have a separate winter-bike for the purpose. Salt improves road conditions as far as bikes are concerned though, making it on balance a good thing for the winter biker.

          Snow banks narrowing the road surface is also a bit problematic in some places, in particular where there is no bike infrastructure in place. Taking the lane can be necessary in some cases.

      • underscore_@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        Tampere has improved a lot in the last few years in terms of cycling infrastructure, I now commute by bike all year round, even when it was under -23°C for two weeks at the beginning of this year.

        There could definitely be more improvements as segregated bike lane coverage can sometimes be a bit patchy still.

    • Kepabar@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      And on the flip side of things, I live in Florida and biking as a primary method of transportation in the summer is just insane.

      I do bike for exercise in the summer and 15 minutes will leave me drenched in sweat needing a shower.

      • gaifux@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        Token recommendation for an ebike. It’s awesome to be able to use a throttle on the scorching hot days, and lately I don’t really use the throttle since it’s cool

    • grue@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      But it’s going to be 10 degreees Fahrenheit on my way to work tomorrow.

      So what? It was like 13 °F here in Atlanta a few days ago and my wife biked to work anyway. And that’s in the South, where we’re not used to it!

      If she can deal with it, you have no excuse.

      • capital@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        How far is work for her?

        Regardless of the weather, biking would turn a 25 min drive into an 1hr 25min ride. I’m already not gonna do that.

        • MonkRome@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          I agree with you that better mass transit is needed as much or more than bike infrastructure, but I want to check one of your assumptions.

          I bike 9 miles to work every day in 38 minutes, the car trip is 20-25 minutes due to traffic. The key is an e-bike. I’ve put 3k miles on the bike and at this point it has paid for itself and then some. Cars are expensive to drive, maintain, and purchase. My wife and I share a car and I supplement it with an e-bike. Considering she was considering getting an expensive new car before we started sharing, we’ve probably saved $40-50k in the last 3 years by removing a car from the equation. (Cost of car, insurance, maintenance, energy use per mile).

          E-bikes use such a tiny amount of electricity, I’ll probably only use two tanks of gas worth of energy in it’s lifetime, maybe less.

          Over the course of the next 15-20 years, repeatedly buying and maintaining one less car will likely shave several years off retirement and the biking will keep me healthy in the meantime.

          Edit: Like you I overestimated the burden of riding a bike before I tried to make it work. Now that I’m doing it, it’s almost entirely a positive outcome.

          • capital@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            10 months ago

            “C’mon, just take an hour and a half to get to work”.

            Notably, you didn’t answer the question.

            Almost like this works for some and not others.

  • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    10 months ago

    This is a very simplistic solution to a really complicated question. I say this as a cyclist myself.

    Cycling is great for short commuter trips. But it doesn’t replace long trips at all, not practically anyway.

    Cycling, while great for your health, consumes extra calories that you wouldn’t otherwise have to expend. That extra food has its own carbon footprint. Depending on your diet and where it comes from, that extra carbon footprint can actually be quite significant.

    Cycling reduces congestion. No argument there.

    Even if you cycle, you are probably cycling to local stores that have their merchandise driven in on big trucks. It’s still probably more efficient this way, but far from net zero. Remember that the environment you live in is still mostly powered by gas guzzling equipment. That equipment will need to be electrified.

    And that’s my point. Cycling is not a one size fits all solution. It is one piece of a much bigger puzzle.

    • Showroom7561@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      Cycling is great for short commuter trips. But it doesn’t replace long trips at all, not practically anyway.

      Depends on what “long trip” means. 20km? 50km? 500km?

      Sure, a bike isn’t ideal for “long trips”, but it’s easily integrated into other forms of public transportation, which is also better for society than having more EVs.

      • n2burns@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        10 months ago

        Sure, a bike isn’t ideal for “long trips”, but it’s easily integrated into other forms of public transportation, which is also better for society than having more EVs.

        You nailed it. I’m mostly WFH, but twice a week, I have to go into the office which is ~110km away. Fortunately, there’s a train between the two cities and the station is 750m from the office, so it’s a nice 10min walk. My home, on the other hand, is 3.5km from the station and that walk takes 45min even if I’m booking it. On a bike, it’s a reasonable 12min ride.

    • Wanderer@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      Trains cycling and walking can do by far a huge amount of transport needs. Just look at Japan.

      No one is saying it will fix 100% of all issues, they are just saying its such a huge part of it even if you took half the funding of cars and put it to bikes it would solve so so much.

    • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Honestly this, 100%.

      My bike can easily get me to & around the nearby city, no problem at all. Bulky shopping? Not an issue, I have pannier bags.

      Long distance trips though? Absolutely no chance. They require some planning and pre booking bike spaces on the long distance train, mainly because our public transport has been turning into a mess. It’s been on a steady decline with prices on the increase, and its not really an attractive option anymore.

      I won’t be giving up my bicycle, but I have eaten the forbidden fruit and started learning how to drive, since it’s the only alternative to bridge the ~200mi journey between here and the people I care about. I dislike it a lot, and it’s actually quite stressful being behind the wheel, compared to just relaxing on a bus or train. Even riding on my bicycle is much less stressful.

  • jaschen@lemmynsfw.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    10 months ago

    Cycling is not the solution. It’s infrastructure.

    I would love a walkable city. But I can’t afford housing close to the city. The bus or train system isn’t strong enough or convenient enough. Our country are set up for cars. Housing prices are set up for people to drive further to live.

    Have affordable housing near the places I work and I won’t need to drive. Stop blaming people for living their lives around a broken infrastructure. Stop cramming bicycles down our throats. We are not the problem.

    • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      10 months ago

      We are not the problem.

      Then what is the problem?

      The infrastructure

      And who built the infrastructure?

      We did.

      👉

      • shastaxc@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        10 months ago

        “we” is used very liberally here. I had no say in the planning, implementation, or even the allocation of funds for the current infrastructure. In fact, most of it has existed since before I was born.

        • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          10 months ago

          most of it has existed since before I was born.

          I’m sure a lot of things existed before you were born.

          There were also a lot of things that didn’t exist before you were born.

          Change da world, my final message. Good bye.

      • jaschen@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        10 months ago

        I’m sick of people blaming the people. I’m sick of people trying to shove bicycles down our throats like THAT will fix the issue.

        My comment was in response to the blaming of the people and pushing cycling as the solution. This article should be, how do we influence better zoming laws. How we do improve the city infrastructure.

        We do vote. Every election cycle. We do what we can with our few voices.

        The sooner we stop upvoting these shit articles the sooner we can fix the actual issue.

      • jaschen@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 months ago

        Cars are just the “effect” of the “cause”. Vote in your local elections for better zoning laws and stop upvoting these shit articles that blame the people.

          • jaschen@lemmynsfw.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            I mean, with that logic, if 1/2 of the world population didn’t eat and just died, that would also fix the problem too. But that isn’t going to happen so your statement is as dumb as mine.

            • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              10 months ago

              Put a ban in place for 2030 or 2035 and it will be fixed

              If you don’t do that then everything will be designed with the existence of cars in mind

              Even today they are building new roads, you go to a sub division and there are roads in front of every house

              • jaschen@lemmynsfw.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                So people like me who can’t afford a job near my work have to ride a bicycle for 40 miles one-way for my work because someone in the past made home zoning impossible to scale the population growth.

                Please tell me why I have to suffer and those fuckers who is camping in those expensive unattainable homes get to enjoy their home values?

                Why do you want people like me to suffer more than I already do by having to drive 80 miles a day?

                • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  The point is you won’t fix that if there are cars

                  Why would you suffer from an issue that only exists because of cars if there weren’t cars?

  • QuaffPotions@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    10 months ago

    As an avid bicyclist who tried their best to live car-free: it’s easier said than done for anyone living in the US. I used to make 7 mile commutes to work, even in winters that could go below zero some days. It’s doable, but it wasn’t easy either. I completely sympathize with anyone who wouldn’t want to bike in those conditions, even if a whole bunch of people do so in places like Finland.

    But the worst part is the infrastructure. Motor vehicles dominate everywhere. Motorists are routinely hostile to bicyclists. Despite my best efforts to be safe, I’ve had multiple close calls and was once nearly rear-ended by someone who was going about 50 mph. Technically I did get hit - I had veered to the right just in time to feel the side of their car brush on the side of me. Miraculously suffered no injury, and only one of the support bars on the rear rack had been dented in.

    Point is, unless the infrastructure changes, I would never expect others to switch to biking. It is dangerous.

    • Wahots@pawb.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      I love downhill mountain biking. There is no way I’d ever be biking in the road with cars. It’s too damn dangerous. If you crash mountain biking, you are usually wearing armor and the crash is usually at less than 25mph and into dirt and bushes. Not quite the same in heavy traffic with people not paying attention :p

      Big fan of rail networks though, and our city is taking steps to improve heavy and lighter rail options, even if it’s not exactly perfect yet.

      I’d love to see even more rail options in a euro-style circular rail network with multiple concentric rings, more pedestrian/bike/bus only roads, and a greater emphasis on public infrastructure investment (fun stuff like pools, parks, and stuff to get people moving).

  • Showroom7561@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    … even if you swap the car for a bike for just one trip a day.

    That’s the real takeaway that I hope everyone can acknowledge.

    Outside of long distance (50km+ each way) commuting, the majority of single-occupancy car trips tends to be super short distances (something like <5km).

    Replacing those short trips can be fun, easy, quick, and could have a massive positive impact on society. We just need more people doing it. 👍

    • governorkeagan@lemdro.id
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      10 months ago

      Totally agree with you! We’ve got the small digital sing posts in high cycle commuting areas that show a count of how many people have cycled passed that within a given time, I love riding past it and seeing the number go further up

    • baldingpudenda@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      10 months ago

      What do you mean? You can use the sidewalks that randomly end for no reason, use bridges with 3ft of space right next to the car lane, and oblivious drivers on their phones using the whole lane and some of the next.

    • grue@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      10 months ago

      That’s because Texas was built wrong. The solution is to fix it, not push cars instead of bikes.

        • grue@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          I was speaking generally, not about the people in this thread in particular.

        • Uranium3006@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          they literally ripped out the streetcars in a conspiracy and got a slap on the wrist fine. cars were absolutely pushed down out throats., why do you think it’s so hard to choose not to use one even if you want to?

          • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            Current time response to claim of pushing cars in this thread is in no way countered by discussing things that happened somewhere else a hundred Years ago.

    • End0fLine@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      10 months ago

      I walk as much as possible in Texas, but I would never ride a bike. Seeing how drivers are everywhere I have lived here beat that notion out of me.

  • doctorcrimson@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I’m going to call bullshit, the biggest sources of emissions for logistics and transport aren’t consumers. It’s industry use, including airlines and sea freight.

    Even if you don’t include sea freight, then passenger cars are still only 45% of total transport emissions.

    The title is even very clearly worded as an opinion, with it being “important” being intentionally subjective language. Get some bicycles and shit, support cyclist infrastructure, but also definitely support electric rail, planes, and freight.

  • mydude@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    For context: The environmental impact of PRIVATE JET travel can be over 1000 times more than other travel modes. Aviation produces just under one billion tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions annually, accounting for 2.5% of global CO2 pollution.

  • set_secret@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    honest question is it practical to shop for 4 people using a bike? how do we get around the need to move things? i,guess if you had an e bike and a trailer it could work?

    • Victor Villas@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      There are many ways to make that work, and what happens is usually a combination of one or more of these factors:

      1. Living/working a short distance away from a grocer, so it’s a quick trip that can happen any day of the week
      2. Having a grocer in the commuting route such that a quick stop doesn’t really add any extra travel time to your day
      3. Shop for the next week or two of groceries instead of buying a lot of things in bulk for the month
      4. Forego big wholesale purchases like getting 3 month’s worth of toilet paper at once for big savings
      5. Having a cargo bike or at least some extra pannier/baskets to increase capacity

      Using an e-bike helps, but I wouldn’t say it’s as big of a factor as those above. I don’t have one, don’t think I will any time soon.

      I’m good with having 1, 2 and 3. I still get wholesale stuff at a discount, but I get those delivered to my place instead. The delivery fee is offset by purchasing in bulk. But for everything not wholesale, I get it sorted with a 15 minute detour on my way back from work once a week. This is all pretty easy to make it happen, but only because I live somewhere (Vancouver downtown) that has a decent urban fabric and passable cycling network.

    • Redfugee@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      10 months ago

      When I did groceries with a bike I just used a backpack and made more frequent trips. I think it was practical because going more frequently meant I had more fresh foods and could get just a thing or 2 to utilize other things I already had on hand. It also helped get in a little extra exercise. Granted, this was shopping for 2 and not 4.

      Moving things is still probably going to require a car but that’s more of an edge case and not a daily thing.

      • set_secret@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        idk man i think there is a hell of a lot of families that need regular groceries who work full time. I don’t think you could call this an edge case.

    • daellat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Comes back to one of the biggest problems in USA: urban planning / zoning. No grocers etc in your neighborhoods is yet another factor in car dependance.

  • BurningRiver@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Yeah, I’ll just haul my kids around on an electric bike when it’s 20 degrees F (-7 C) with a windchill around 0 (-18 C), which also coincides with EVs getting absolute shit range because current batteries hate holding charges at that temperature. Also, I drive a 20 year old vehicle with 190,000 miles that I paid $3000 for 6 years ago or so. EVs and even E-bikes cost a whole lot more than that without the utility.

    On top of that, calling vehicles that contain lithium batteries “zero-carbon” is laughable. The mining, refining, and manufacturing process in itself is an environmental disaster. I agree we need to find new modes of transportation powered by methods other than burning coal, natural gas, and dinosaur juice, but we don’t currently have the solution to this problem.

    • DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      EVs getting absolute shit range because current batteries hate holding charges at that temperature

      That’s blatantly false and shows just how little you know. The reduced range is due to the heating (both cabin and battery) performed. You don’t even need to heat the battery, but it will perform better when warmer.

      There is no significant waste heat on EVs like the ~70% there is on ICEs, so the energy for heating cannot be passively recovered but has to be actively spent. If you disabled all heating (which is obviously not feasible), the reduction in range would be significantly less.

      • BurningRiver@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        The reduced range is due to the heating (both cabin and battery) performed.

        Right, so they still get reduced range in the cold. I now understand the “why” part of it.

        You don’t even need to heat the battery, but it will perform better when warmer.

        Except that in extreme cold like the region gets where I live, apparently you do actually need to warm up the battery if you want it to take a charge.

        As for Tesla, that’s a non-starter for me. Even setting aside my feelings about their CEO, the build quality isn’t something I’d accept anyways even if there was an option that was viable in my case.

        The bottom line is that the cost of entry, lack of an option that comfortably carries 5 people and a large dog, and the lack of charging infrastructure (in my area at least) are barriers that most people don’t want to, or can’t deal with.

        I do agree that we need an option to phase out ICE vehicles, but we’re just not there yet for a whole lot of people.

        • DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          10 months ago

          Yes for fast charging (>50kW) the battery needs to be warm so it doesn’t get damaged, this goes for all EVs and isn’t Tesla-specific.

          But yeah EV range is an issue for some, although not the vast majority. For most people, these issues are theoretical because they so rarely actually use their car in a way that they would encounter them. In reality it’s only an inconvenience they might encounter a few times per year, if at all. Most driving by far is done well within winter range of any EV on the market, if you have the ability to either charge at home or at work with “slow” AC charging.

    • MrPasty@lemmy.sebbem.se
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Manufacturing electric cars generates a bit more emissions than internal combustion cars, at least now while the technology is relatively young. Last time I read about it, an internal combustion car would catch up and pass the electric equivalent in emissions in a couple of years of normal use.