I’m on the market to buy a new laptop, and Lemmy has successfully coaxed and goaded me to give Linux a serious try.
I’ve never used *nix as my personal OS.
Which hardware/laptop do you recommend? And which OS to pair it with for a Linux newbie?
I’m a software engineer, and quit my job to pursue an MSc in AI. So my uses will be:
- programming
- study
- browsing lemmy
- gaming
Framework, System76, Slimbook and Tuxedo are great choices
Second framework. The upgradeable is unmatched… Except if you want to go from the 13inch to 16inch.
Framework
This. It’s awesome. I have the i7-1165G7 and my son has the newer intel one. I prefer the smaller one but the larger one has a dedicated GPU. This is all you need… everything is replaceable. But pick the size you most likely need
Framework seems nice but only 4 ports is a huge deal breaker.
I’d say System76 is the 2nd best choice.
I have a very similar use case so here is my opinion.
HARDWARE
-No dGPU unless this is your PRIMARY gaming computer. (Reason: better battery life, lighter laptop, with recent AMD iGPU you have decent performance for non-VR/not massive openworld AAA games.)
-recent AMD CPU. (Reason: better performance to watt ratio than Intel which makes a big difference for most of your use cases. Better multi-core performance which makes compiling code much faster. Massively better iGPU for light-medium duty gaming.)
-atleast 16GB ram if not expandable but as much as you can reasonably budget.
-16:10 or taller aspect ratio screen (16:9 sucks on laptop size devices, the extra height makes a big difference for school, coding, browsing, pretty much everything but watching 16:9 movies)
-Resolution: personal preference. IMO 1080p or 1920*1200 for 16:10 is ideal for 14" and below laptops. Lower resolution means better battery and on a small screen the PPI is high enough. If you are OK with a trade off of battery life and want a super crisp display then 2K is the highest I would go. 4K is retarded on laptop sized screens unless you are plugged in 90% of the time and you’ll have to fuck with scaling then.
-metal body for stiffness and durability
-decent key travel (usually longer travel means better IME)
If you want to do machine learning/AI work professionally I use and recommend investing in a dedicated desktop with a large memory nvidia (cuda cores) GPU and installing the cuda drivers. Trying to cram commercially viable ai hardware into a laptop is a losing battle and you’ll end up with a worse experience for both use cases, wont be able to fit large models in the memory anyways, and end up buying a desktop for AI while being stuck with a laptop that is worse for laptop use)
SOFTWARE
#1 Nobara OS KDE - best OOB experience for gaming IMO. Easy transition from windows. Has kernel fixes and many laptop specific fixes (asusctrl for example) by default which means you have a good chance of extra features like LEDs, fingerprint, etc working without tinkering). Fedora based.
#2 Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE6) - best non-gaming distro to learn and grow into IMO. Access to deb packages. Stable. (nobara has been stable for me as well, but it is LMDE’s bread and butter). Ease of transition from windows. Can game just as well if you are capable of following simple instructions to configure the stuff done by default on nobara and pop (may need to manually change kernels, drivers, etc to get the best performance on new hardware)
#3 Pop_OS - used it for years, but I prefer Nobara after comparing. Ubuntu based so you have access deb packages without ubuntu’s bullshit. Setup out of the box for gaming. I got fed up with failed updates, broken packages, and sluggishness so I swapped to nobara which has been a treat.
EDIT: you can snag some good deals on amazon warehouse deals (used-like new) laptops. These are usually just open box returns and if there is anything wrong you have 30 days to return it.
I recently upgraded to an Asus vivobook S 14x OLED (M5402R) for $780 CAD ($580USD) with a ryzen 7 6800H, 16GB DDR5, a 1TB gen 4 nvme, and it has zero signs of use, slight coil whine under load that I can only hear if I put my ear next to the keyboard and don’t have any sound or music on (I suspect this was the reason for the return on mine since its a common complaint for this model. That’s what I was hoping for since I’m not that picky and its worth the steep discount IMO.) Everything works oob on Nobara. I believe lenovo also regularly heavily discounts their previous gen thinkpads which are a great option, although the AMD configs are rare. Good luck!
I can only argue with metal body here: that’d vary on model-to-model basis. I’ve had a few thinkpads made of plastic, and they’re fine after a few drops here and there, and hinges are alive and well, also I’ve seen some (mostly new-ish) laptops made of literal aluminum foil that are bent AF; what’s even worse, one wasn’t even what they call unibody, i.e. the frame was sandwiched of aluminum shell and a piece of crappy plastic with heat inserts for screws → after like a year of normal usage those inserts literally broke off with the surrounding plastic.
The latter one was some ultrabook by HP. Namedropping here 'cause I have some personal issues with their products, so, frankly speaking, fuck them in particular :)
I’d like to declare that HP sucks ass. That is all.
HP products are just always shit. I have a HP pavilion which was made of plastic, and it is basically unusable after 2 years of normal use. The plastic is the lowest quality crap I’ve ever seen.
HP products are just always shit. I have a HP pavilion which was made of plastic, and it is basically unusable after 2 years of normal use. The plastic is the lowest quality crap I’ve ever seen.
I just received a 2010 MacBook pro, but don’t like macos and the 2010 can’t support modern Mac. So, Linux. I installed budgie completely forgetting it was snap. I was planning to install LMDE. I’ve never heard Nobara OS, so will give it a shot first. Thanks!
Nobara is just Fedora with some tweaks.
I was reading their site after I posted, and saw that. I do love Fedora! It’s going on the MacBook. Hopefully the antiquated hardware can handle it smoothly. I’ve always got antiX lol.
https://linuxpreloaded.com/ for a longer list
These are my favorites (EU based)
Tuxedo Computers can get you a very good dev laptop for ~1500€ (64GB RAM, AMD/Intel CPU, NVIDIA/AMD graphics card). If you will be working in AI, I imagine you’ll need CUDA (?) aka NVIDIA.
If you don’t go for anything on linuxpreloaded (which I wouldn’t recommend), it’s good to check whether what you’re buying has linux hardware support by checking the Linux Hardware DB. Even if you don’t look, it’ll probably work, but better safe than sorry if you’re going to dump 1/3 or 1/2 of your months salary into something (depending on where you are).For a distro, I dunno what level you are, but Distro Chooser can help you out with making a choice. My recommendations:
linux beginner
Linux mint. nice desktop environment, looks like a mashup between windows and mac, still missing advanced options, but quite customisable. comes with suitable standard software and cloud integrations (you can connect to a bunch of clouds), relatively up to date
Ubuntu is well-known, some proprietary companies even consider it “the linux” and only make linux versions for it. It’s quite stable. However, it isn’t my first recommendation anymore as they are going down a proprietary route. I’m not sure if they have ads yet, but wouldn’t surprise me if they started.
desktop environment
This is the desktop suite, a bundle of packages that work well together on any distro, with its own look and feel. There are basically 3 camps:
- windows look n feel
- KDE: is the most known, is very customisable, has an abundant amount of themes, icon sets, login screens, fonts, and a well-sized userbase. They prefix many app names with “K”. Ubuntu even has a distro version called “Kubuntu” with KDE on it
- Cinnamon: main user is Linux Mint
- LXDE and XFCE: look closer to windows 95 and windows XP, consume minimal resources. configuration is through the interface, advanced configuration through files
- mac look n feel
- Gnome: they are well known and source of flame wars (gnome vs KDE). windows don’t have title bars, things are very rounded, not very configurable, heavily mac inspired
- tiling window managers
- these aren’t desktop environments, but sit more in the middle, they manage windows. best to watch a video about tiling window managers. they are very geeky and perfect if you love using nothing but your keyboard
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- windows look n feel
Framework laptop 13
I’ve heard great things about system76, never had one of their laptops myself but still have the desktop I got in 2011 (Wild Dog Pro). I personally use the frame.work 13, and it has been working great with Arch installed. I do not recommend Arch, use something like PopOS, or LinuxMint.
I have been eyeing a framework laptop. Just curious how you use the modular ports in your case: do you have different ones you swap sometimes?
2 type c’s and 2 type A USB are in it 99% of the time. I have the HDMI, and display port modules but have rarely used them. I also keep the 2.5Gb Ethernet for when I break the WiFi to get back into the router, and a microsd for when I reflash my raspberry pi’s .
Is there any advantage to having extra ports over a dongle with all of those at once?
IMO, modular ports is not the main selling point for Framework. I was sold on their commitment to a platform that is repairable/upgradable.
Other than they fit nicely into a pocket in my backpack…no. The main reason I love their product is the reparability aspect, allowing me to swap ports is just a neat feature.
I guess that makes sense, I can still just put the dongle I already have for edge cases like plugging into a DisplayPort monitor, needing Ethernet, etc. Also I didn’t realize until someone else commented that they have extra storage ones, that would probably be one for me
I have a “typical” set of ports (2x USB-C, HDMI, USB-A) that’s on my laptop most of the time. I also have the 2.5GbE adapter that I use occasionally.
I assume for charging you have to have the USB C one, and have it on a specific slot?
I can’t speak for all of the models, but my AMD Framework 13 can charge on any slot. I really like being able to charge from either side of my laptop.
That’s actually nice little bonus!
I keep a copy of Windows installed on a storage card, saves from having to mess about with partitioning for dual booting.
Oh, they have extra storage cards, that’s pretty sweet actually
I was typing up a reply and realized this said most of what I was saying. The only thing I’d add is that support matters, popularity matters. Supported or popular HW platforms are less likely to have small random niggles than an off the shelf dell laptop. System 76 or tuxedo lines are ideal supported platforms. Think pads area super popular.
PopOS or Mint are as easy to use as ubuntu, but without being chained to snaps, which everyone is moving towards flatpaks except canonical
What generation of framework do you have?
Intel 11th gen. I was in the first few batches when it came out and haven’t had a need to upgrade, but love that I can if needed.
Oh man that’s the same as me! I’ve been having all sorts of issues with reliability with mine so I was curious if it was different generations. I guess I’m unlucky?
I’ve had no issues that weren’t caused by me, but I also have a pretty minimal setup.
Check out the Framework 16. Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported. I run Debian on my Framework 13 no problem.
I have a framework. Hands down the best laptop I’ve ever worked with/on.
Esp32
😂 can I also run Doom on it?
Of course it can…
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/rQdX9u-WM2M?si=LIAM2URRXvnh7nMQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Any used ThinkPad will be an incredible value with Linux installed.
just be careful about those thinkpad chromebooks
I hear good things about Tuxedo computers. I might give one a try when I’m in the market again. I usually point people at Pop! OS and Mint or something Fedora based if they are into immutable file systems. I personally use Fedora Kinoite and love it. It’s super easy and doesn’t break.
System76 and Framework
I have a Framework laptop and just installed Ubuntu on it the other day, it works great. Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported by Framework and there’s a bunch of other distros that are confirmed tested. I have the 13" but the 16" just came out with a dedicated GPU, that’s probably the one to get if you’re going to game on it
ThinkPad cus framework still doesn’t have a trackpoint :p
Which distro makes you wanna rent a penguin and smash your monitor with an apple? What would you reocmmend?
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I’m just here to say that lemmy should have an integration with Midjourney that automatically creates an image based on the content of the text.
Framework have support for everything, including the built-in fingerprint sensor. So I think my next laptop will be this.
