Someone I used to work with gets paid a truly ridiculous amount of money because she changes jobs around every 14 months to 2 years. She hates every job she takes and is constantly worried that her boss hates her in every role. I don’t think she’s happy, despite the huge pay. I’d rather be happy. I work to live, not live to work.
I hope she retires early and enjoys life after work.
FIRE people know
That’s the thing, being able to pay bills makes me happy. Work will never make me happy.
That’s the thing, paying bills doesn’t make you happy, it just temporarily eliminates the drop in happiness that would occur if you didn’t pay those bills.
Happiness is just a lack of unhappiness
You’re taking the piss.
But there is some amount of genuine truth to this simple statement.
Well no. My point is that while money can’t buy happiness, it can mitigate sources of unhappiness.
I dunno, money can also buy a jet ski
Yeah, I like my job and love my team. I’m truly afraid of losing that.
Or some more sage advice: keep interviewing and an eye on salaries and compare that to your realistic prospectives at your job. Employers aren’t dumb, and if they see that you move around a lot they might not even bother hiring you.
I have a lot of acquaintances in my field that seem to have no problem changing jobs every 1-2 years and keep doing better each time.
2ish years is the Goldilocks zone of job hoping. Less then that and you look more trouble than you are worth. More than that and you miss out on real pay raises. Though of course if you have it good then you don’t have to jump.
It does work for a while but eventually higher end stuff they will pass you on. Training a new employee is about 6 months worth of work, so spinning someone up just on new projects/ history takes a good chunk of time.
This depends on the job and role, I know plenty people who tend to be flung at a project for 6-8 months, then pivoted to another, ad infinitum. For them, changing company etc is only slightly more inconvenient for them and the employer than shifting internally.
This is pretty dumb advice, because someone who’s hopping every 2 years and getting passed on interviews is still getting more interviews than someone who’s not applying at all.
How much is moving around a lot? Because 2-3 years turn over is pretty common in IT and it doesn’t seem to prevent being hired. It may even be considered as better experience than the one of an engineer that worked on a single system for 10 years.
I jump jobs something like every 2-3 years and frankly have never found that to be an impediment to finding new employment. And every time it’s been for more money. I’m sure that some hiring managers see this as a problem but I also think that most of them understand the realities of today’s job market.
I’m not saying you’re wrong…and as I age, I’m asked more and more about my job hopping history…but I am starting to feel like the negatives of a long history of job hopping are in many ways balanced out by the long history itself.
I’m a CAD drafter with 17 years of experience in 5 different jobs. In interviews it’s more and more common to get questions about my plans for the future and how long I plan to stay with (company that is interviewing me). Each time, I tell them that I’m prepared to retire from their company in a few decades as long as they take care of me and keep a good working environment and competitive compensation.
Whether I’m just in a good market for my skills, or job hopping isn’t the deterrent some people seem to think it is, I have been getting a constant stream of recruiters filling my inbox for the past decade, whether I’ve been looking or not, and I’ve honestly never not gotten an offer for any position I was actually interested in.
If I felt it was a good fit and was interested in talking to them, it has always led to an interview, and if I was still interested after that, an offer. Every time. Granted, often the offer was way less than I was currently making or in the interview we realize it’s not a good fit…but never once has my job history been an issue that comes between a position that’s a good fit and a job offer.
That’s very interesting stuff, thank you for your perspective.
From one person’s experience (mine): They don’t read CVs that closely. I’ve got a couple of 1 year jobs (not contracts) and they’re more interested in what I did rather than why so short. If they ask I tell them it’s because I didn’t like the position but gave it a go for a year. I also have a 2 year gap in employment none of them are interested in for 4 jobs now, they don’t even spot the missing years and I’ve had to point it out in interviews because it’s a story of how I deal with big tasks.
If they are that petty that they’ll pass me over because of something like that then that employers policies would raise more flags than I’d want to deal with anyway.
When hiring you have hundreds of CVs pass by, I’m looking for experience, we’ll sort out these other details in the interview.
Caveat: I am older now, more senior but never had issues finding work.
My manager does this. If he sees that a job candidate hops jobs a lot he won’t give them an interview. That being said, our yearly raises meet/exceed inflation and he’s a pretty good manager
Just because they are good and your job gives raises doesn’t mean previous employers did.
If you want loyalty get a dog, I work to get paid.
If someone’s spent less than 2 years at their 3 most recent jobs, there’s a high chance they’re job hopping. Especially if they’re engineers in a discipline that can take months to a year to be fully capable of the tasks needed.
Yeah the new strategy is lateral climbing. Companies don’t value loyalty and don’t give raises for sticking around anymore, so fuck em.
…I should look for a new job, perhaps
Doesn’t hurt to check out your options. And almost any job will welcome you back (usually at your new pay rate) if you change your mind down the road.
Over my career, lateral moves have netted me +80%, +30%, and 20%. Not to mention quality of work/life improvements.
Most companies basically offer a < 5% raise every year, which is just around inflation. Maybe a 10% bump if you get promoted. The wider world values your skills much more.
Follow the ABCs. Always Be Checking.
It doesn’t cost you a dime to keep your resume up to date and to check Indeed and Linked In one every few weeks for jobs like yours in your area.
Worst case, you look around and find there’s nothing in your area paying much better than you are currently earning. Congrats. You’re in as good a position as you can reasonably expect.
More likely though, you’ll see one or more of a few other trends in your search:
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Employers are all looking for a specific skill adjacent to your skill set that you don’t have. Might be time to look into a class or something to pick this skill up and increase your potential.
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Employers around you are all willing to pay more than you’re making but want more experience. In this case you can sit tight…or throw your hat into the ring even with less experience. They may take a flier on you, especially in this tight labor market.
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Employers around you are willing to pay more for your skills and experience. This is most likely but you now need to check out why, and decide if you’re interested.
Even if you’re not really interested (maybe the specific opening is too far away or not a big pay increase or something) it may still be worth reaching out, even if just for interview practice. Lots of people really struggle with interviews, and being able to do one where you’re not really intent on landing the job may be a valuable experience.
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I laugh at people bitching about their pay. Move. On. Why would the company suddenly throw you a 20% raise!? Out of the goodness of their heart?
My last 3 jobs (top pay): $14 -> $22 -> $39. At this point I could probably jump ship for more but I’m quite content to retire out of this place.
Stay put 3-5 years, gain experience, jump. When we moved here my buddy took a job at an oil change place, barely above min wage and far below his skillset. Kept job hopping and now he’s making $120K+.
Right!
Also, if your employer only bumps you up to where you should be after you threaten to leave after years of under-compensation, they’ve still won, not you. Sure you’re now being paid fairly but you’ll never get back all that pay you should’ve been getting all along. And if you don’t have that money, they do.
My first job after I got my BSME was $45k in 2012. I was there until 2017, and left at $62k. Next job started at $72k, left at $76k in 2020. Next job was back at my first company, at $82k. So, my value went up to them 20k in a couple years. I just started a new job last month, left my old place at $96k and started at $115k.
I want to stay in one place, with coworkers and work that I like. But clearly, you have to keep moving at least every few years to really make anything. I knew guys that had been at that first company for 20+ years. Working with them again at this new place, they got like 50k increases from where they were because they were basically just getting cost of living increases for two decades.
So interesting story. The company I work for, and have for over 10 years (right out of grad school), started to fall behind in my salary in 2020. I was beginning to consider other companies despite loving my job, but they apparently realized they were about to have a huge issue with a lot of mid-career staff leaving and gave us huge raises. Last year I got a 20% raise, this year a 8.5% plus a 2% bonus. I started at $86k in 2013, and am now up to $179k. I could do a little bit better with other companies, but not by a huge margin, and I really love my company and the work I do. It’s a non-profit, so it’s nice getting to focus on doing good engineering without answering to share holders.
It’s sad how true this is. I quit my job and went to work for another company for a year. The previous company contacted me wanting me back, and hired be back after a year for $15k more than before. I’ve been there a year now and got a 3% raise. Probably should just quit again and get rehired
Stupid question, wasn’t that a risky move? I mean, the way I was raised to think by my parents I can hear their voices in the back of my head if I went through a situation like this, similar to this:
“But aren’t you worried they might hire you then fire you just out of spite for switching companies? And then what are you gonna do?”
It wasn’t risky because I wanted to leave. I had problems with how they ran things. Then I realized the new place was even worse, and the old place reached out to me offering my job back. They explained how many of the things that I had issues with had been resolved or were being worked on. And they weren’t lying because I’m still there and quite happy.
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No company with a single HR person would re-hire you just to fire you out of spite. It costs a chunk of time and money to get someone onboarded, which would be wasted. If they didn’t like you, they could just forget about you.
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“And then what are you gonna do” is pretty clear, go back to the other company or find a different job. Not really a bad outcome.
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I’ve been with the same place for about 16 years. I wasted a lot of time staying in one department trying to be the best employee. I’ve moved repeatedly just within the company. Because moving within the company is pretty easy to do. The yearly pay raises I was getting was garbage. By moving departments and renegotiating my pay I’ve effectively doubled my pay from 4 years ago.
When there’s no incentive to stay but all the reason to go…
I was born into a family run company. Gave them 10 years of my life. The first few years I worked really hard and got a 2-3 dollar raise. Shortly after, minimim wage went up to 50 cents below what I was making. I did not get another raise until 2-3 years down the line. Regardless who your employer is, get treated fairly or leave for somewhere that will treat you fairly.
And if you left based on that stagnant wage, I bet they gave you the guilt trip about loyalty, and how hard it is to operate a small business, as if that somehow makes it okay to underpay you.
They weren’t too bad when I left and even pitched in for some of my schooling. I still don’t feel bad taking a couple cans of soup whenever I visit though. And the work did teach me a lot of skills and a great work ethic.
Telling your manager how shit they are is very satisfying too
It’s not worth it if you chase money. Even the biggest assholes at your previous job might end up in a place adjacent to you, especially if you don’t look internationally (or at least out of your area) for jobs.
Naw that’s the lie they want you to believe. Tell your manager to fuck off; you’ll never see them again.
If you want an anecdote, I was cordial when leaving my last job while pursuing something with much more risk. To my surprise, my manager said the door is always open if I want to come back.
It cost me nothing to be nice, and it gave me a free safety net. You never know what opportunities you’ll get, so be nice, help others, and put in a tiny bit of effort.
Or don’t, but I recommend considering it
Tell you manager what went wrong politely if necessary, being rude in a professional setting may look cool in some fantasy but nothing good will come out of it.
It really doesn’t matter at all. You’re quitting. You already have a new job lined up. You will never interact with these people again. Nobody asks for references outside of minimum wage positions unless they’re a small shop.
Nobody asks for references outside of minimum wage positions unless they’re a small shop.
I’ve found this to be highly variable over my past few career moves.
My resume indicates that professional references are available upon request.
In my last two job searches, I’ve had responses ranging from absolutely zero interest in references, to not only requesting the ones I indicated but also asking for even more names and contacts.
Obviously your mind is already made up, but in my experience, it seems the wise move to stay professional in your professional life, even when leaving a bad job.
I am a mid career enginer, I was requested two references, one colleague and one manager, for my current job.
What is your reason for telling your manager to fuck off? Ego satisfaction for 5 min? What about thinking that if you tell him what went wrong, maybe they can improve, which may improve the work conditions of your ex colleagues? I find that more satisfying. I always try to raise my voice to improve my ex-colleagues conditions before I leave because I’m freer to speak up.
Every career job I’ve ever left has included my manager helping me to secure a higher position at the new job. I disliked some of those managers.
A big part in learning how to be successful is learning when it’s worth it to be petty and when you should just take your money.
That’s interesting. I’ve never once had that happen.
The bigger employers I’ve left just didn’t care and were already looking into how to replace me while I was finishing out my last two weeks. The smaller ones always were concerned with squeezing as much production out of my last few hours as they possibly could.
In neither case were they ever interested in my career beyond their doors.
Field could definitely play a role as well.
I wouldn’t recommend burning any bridges you don’t have to.
Though my last employer was pissed when I got an offer for 30% more when he spent the last 6 months training me.
He immediately counter-offered to match and he didn’t even have to check with anyone. I called him out on underpaying me by 30%. This was probably a mistake, but he was kind of an asshole anyway so meh.
I read a few times that there is a breaking point between people who switch jobs every 3 years on average. Any less often you make significantly less at retirement.
I’m sure there is a value that’s too often but I’ve tried to stay pretty close to the 3 year mark and we make about 5x what my wife and I wanted to make at retirement.
I’m staying put till the interest rates start falling. I don’t want to get hired (locked into a particular salary order of magnitude) when capitalism is cautious. I want to get hired when capitalism is stupid
This comment makes no sense. You can change jobs any time, and the sooner you get paid more, the sooner you can switch to a position that pays even higher
You may be right - I do see my gigachad ex-coworker change companies every year. Guess I’m just more scared of having lots of short employments on my CV, or maybe I’m just locked into my way of thinking even if it doesn’t make much sense.
Also capitalism has no bearing on what you’re paid.
Like, you can work exclusively in government roles, NGOs, or co-ops and change jobs every 3 years and make vastly more than you were making when you started.
It sucks but it’s true. These days, loyalty just means you’re easier to take for granted.
Yep, a medium sized youtuber that worked as HR said this to everyone that is looking for a raise: change company and come back.
Always good to know what you are worth and keep interviewing skills sharp. But yeah, you could wait years for a promotion (more responsibilities!) and it only be 10% whereas a lateral move at a new company could be higher pay for the same type/amount of work. Crazy, right?
I have been working at my current company for two years. Because China’s economic environment is not good, I have never dared to leave this job.
