Students if school started at a later time: “That means later bed-time :D”
Something everyone here seems to be forgetting is that even if you are getting the same amount of sleep, sleeping at a time which fits your biological clock better is better for you. I can get some amount of sleep and wake up at 5am and be tired the whole day, and yet if I wake up at 8-9am with the same amount of sleep I am perfectly functional the whole day.
Circadian rhythms are rooted in our very cells and dominate our lives. Defying them always comes at a penalty. Adding to the complexity here is that everyone is different; social norms be damned.
Jetlag is probably the best studied phenomenon for trying to “break the rules”, and surprise, there is no remedy other than waiting a few days to acclimate to a different solar cycle.
When I was in university I designed a semester around only having afternoon+evening classes.
I slept to 11 every day, which turned into staying up to 3 each night.
That’s still 8 hours of sleep, seems fine to me.
I had a whole semester where classes where all in the morning (there was no choice until I had failed on the following years) and that whole semester I didn’t go to any classes. Great times sleeping.
There’s two parts, amount of sleep and teens have a later sleep schedule (ie night owl).
But in any case just because some may abuse it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have it for everyone else.
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Um no, because teens are naturally on a later schedule with their circadian rhythm. They are natural night owls. Their circadian rhythm signals their body to go to sleep later than children or adults. Read into it, this is well researched.
Uhh, yes? I think that is kind of the point. To acknowledge they do have a different sleep requirements than adults and elders.
In terms of what time they go to bed? I might be missing something here but what I meant was that they’d just go to bed since school doesn’t start that early, so they’d lack sleep again anyways.
The idea is that teenagers find it really hard to go to bed early. But school still starts very early. So they end up sleeping less than they should to function. The anti biology stance of “they should go to bed earlier” is not helpful. What’s helpful is starting school later, let them have their vigil time into later hours, then they can sleep and recover fully, and do better at school. Thus potentially creating better educated adults.
See there’s your problem. We can’t have all these better educated adults in a functioning society. They’ll become all liberal and ruin our perfectly established capitalism with their cries for a living wage or whatever peasants call for these days.
Can confirm. My last two years of high school it started at 9, and I’m now a leftist who believes decentralization is a virtue
Imagine if I didn’t have to get up at 6 the first 2 years…I might’ve even tried organizing or something. Instead I’m just tired most of the time
“How can we get your children indoctrinated into a 8a-5p work week if we have them go in later? We can’t have that!”
That’s half the problem though isn’t it. The parents have to work the 9 to 5 so that’s when the kids need to be out of the house as well.
Why? Can’t the kids leave after the parents?
For healthy and capable children, sure.
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But we keep our guns there! Well, our big heavy guns. But still cannon or not that is dangerous!
Thing is, it’s usually earlier, around 7:30am when I was in school, earlier if you wanted the breakfast they had.
Those kids typically aren’t out of the house during those hours in summer.
It’s very much a problem for parents.
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Schools act also as daycare, not their primary function but that’s the norm all over the world not sure why you think they shouldn’t or why this implies a lack of responsibility
Lol
Too bad, cause I don’t want to do 9-5s.
True. School is useless.
/s
I thought it was easy until my kids’ school system tried to do it.
The bus drivers all quit. The only reason they took the job was because it was early and they could start a 9-5 job after their bus drive.
After delays and rescheduling, many schools in the district now start earlier than they did before they tried to make them later.
Don’t they have to also pickup the students in the afternoon?
How the hell could they have time for a 9-5 in addition?
I didn’t understand either but that’s the reason that they gave for quitting. Maybe some schools had a different afternoon driver.
So hire other bus drivers, or just have kids take the regular bus. Where I live there’s no such thing as a school bus.
Hiring takes time. It also required a lot more money than was budgeted because you need people who don’t have a 9-5. And lastly, not everyone lives in the city where there are buses.
Buses can function fine in towns as long as the town is designed well. Very few people live in areas too rural for public transportation to function.
as long as the town is designed well.
Unfortunately I have to live in the real world where towns aren’t designed well. Besides, the average yard in my neighborhood is 3.5 acres so general purpose public transportation wouldn’t work either.
Change happens iteratively. The first step is to acknowledge the problem and adjust how future development is planned. Start with the town center and move outward from there. Giving up fixes nothing.
Yeah, in theory sure. We live in reality though
No in practice actually.
If only the world were so simple.
It actually really is that simple. Design cities and towns so that kids can safely commute to school on their own and you’ve solved the problem.
Except it’s too late for that. The cities are already built. Fixing it would require tearing down entire cities and building new ones. Sure, you could do it one chunk of the city at a time, but doing just one city would take decades and exorbitant amounts of money.
The Netherlands did it in the 70s and plenty of cities are progressively doing it. All you’re saying is, “we fucked our cities up, guess the only way forward is to double down.”
A small town is 10,000-50,000 people. Average home price is $300k. There are around 2,000 towns of 10,000-50,000. That’s $18,000,000,000,000 to build some of the small towns in the US to be public transportation friendly. Who gets dragged out of their homes to make room for rebuilding?
And you’ll still have to problem that many people don’t want to live in crowded towns. Most people that like crowded cities are already living there.
Plenty of towns that size are served well by public transportation in Europe.
What regular bus system. You guys have buses that work?
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Need as in, for a healthy body and mind?.. Hardly needed if we can breed fresh meat for the economic grinder on less sleep!
I have a hypothesis that adolescents staying up late and the elderly waking up early is an an evolutionary holdover from a time when someone needed to be awake to watch for lion attacks.
That’s an actual theory afaik.
The USA Public School System notoriously doesn’t care about science or education in general. They’ve been isolated groups of independent small governments held to no national standard since their inception. They usually just prepare kids to blend in with their local community: manerisms, speech patterns, bare minimum math and reading skills.
Revenge Bedtime Procrastination! Why would I go to sleep early, giving up time that I enjoy (after school) to more fully experience and function during time I don’t enjoy (during school)?
8 - 10 = -2
i see what u did there
I see you went to public school. Learned yourself some maths, too. Nice.
Scientists: humans have evolved to go to sleep later in the evening and wake up later in the morning during their teenage years. It’s hard to fall asleep earlier and even if they do the quality of their sleep will be less.
Morons commenting on this post: just go to sleep earlierThe tragic truth when I’ve worked at schools that start that early is that it was done so that the kids could work/take care of siblings. Even then many kids would leave school early because they would be asked to come into work. It sucked, I had kids that would sleep through my classes because they had worked extremely late.
Most of the shitty things Public schools do are because we have no money, are trying to feed/clothes/protect kids who have literally no one else. The school I worked at had 100% free breakfast and lunch, because the population was so transient/not in the country legally that it wasn’t realistic to expect them to fill out the forms to get free lunch.
The system is such a brutal grind that is also designed to extract as much as possible from optimistic, well meaning folks. There is no money, so most good things come from teachers spending their own money, staying well after contract hours, etc, etc. The burnout rate is insane, my school has already had multiple people leave mid year (and this has happened every where I’ve worked). Alcoholism is rampant among teachers. The stress caused me to develop epilepsy - and I’m not the only person I know this has happened to.
Republicans have been running a war on education for years now, and this is the result. We are forced to do things that we know are bad and ineffective (like the shitty hours, or allowing physically violent students to stay in classroom because we aren’t allowed to suspend them, or teaching to the test) because we have no resources and are expected to be the entire social safety net.
China: gets Britain addicted to tea
Britain: gets China addicted to opium
China: **surprised pickachu face **
Wrong post? The tea-post is upstairs
Crap. Wrong floor. Elevator door closes, cheesy music starts
door opens to a room full of strange smelling white smoke and people in fine silks laying around the floor
Where the fuck did I park?
Tbf it’s not gonna fix anything, teens need a LOT of sleep and their rhythm stray to as far as 4-5AM, so even when starting at 9 they won’t get a lot of sleep
What in my opinion would work is reducing school times a bit and have morning and evening batches with different staffs and the student could choose which time they want to attend, the productivity would be much higher making the lower time period not a problem, tho i am pretty sure there might be some issues in this system remembers CGP grey’s rule
one solution would be longer school years (doesn’t have to be a ‘year-round’ calendar) with maybe an hour or hour-and-a-half less class time per day. but that costs more in terms of food service, transportation, building upkeep, and so forth; plus extra child care burden on parents when most families don’t have a ‘stay at home’ parent these days.
I know, instead of not paying teachers lets have twice as many teachers/teachers on call all day, and still not pay them.
remembers CGP grey’s rule
Hexagons are the bestagons?
Better than the restagons?
Luckily, my state understood this and our school hours were like 8-8:30am to 3pm. Still kinda early, but way less of a kick in the teeth as states that make their kids come in at 7am and out at 2pm.
Sorry for the delay. But this is the interview I listened to about this topic.
At least college somewhat does this. Yet it still doesn’t help with my sleep schedule.
