archive.ph
archive.ph

Herbert F. (84) has been in a Taliban dungeon in Kabul for six months: the right-wing extremist blogger from Vienna had traveled to the Islamist country in the Hindu Kush despite warnings. He had wanted to show that, contrary to the opinion of experts, Afghanistan was a safe country of origin and that refugees could be deported there without hesitation - and proved the exact opposite.

  • rentar42@kbin.social
    362·
    1 year ago

    (Edit: this was meant as a reply to an apparently now-deleted (?) comment about why he deserves the anonymity of having his last name abbreviated).

    He deserves it for the same reason a single mother raising a kid that gets involved in an armed robbery deserves it: basic human rights.

    The idea of those is that they are universal and you’d have to have a very good reason to supersede them. If they are not universal, then they are just “suggestions” and then we end up with exactly the kind of society that this guy wanted.

    And yes, being a major political actor is a good reason to lose that anonymity (which is also how it’s handled in European media, there is no reporting on Angela M. or Emmanuel M.).

    But this guy is a not a public figure in any reasonable sense any more. He’s a stupid old guy that was one of the founding members of a extreme-right splinter party of a right-wing popular party in 1967. That party was banned in 1988. So it (and he) has not been relevant to anything for 35 years. He tried to become relevant with this stunt, fucked around and found out.

    In fact, reporting on his full name is probably what he wants: publicity is what he was attempting to achieve, but anonymity is what he deserves (both as a basic human right and as punishment IMO).

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
      81·
      1 year ago

      Is he charged with a crime or did he do a stupid international venture that is a continuation on the theme of his ridiculous political movement? Do leaders of racist boomer political movements deserve anonymity? Why couldn’t he keep it confined to VierChan?

      Edit: were it the case that his privacy was of primacy, why did it explicilty link him to his little “movement”?

      • rentar42@kbin.social
        122·
        1 year ago

        Is he charged with a crime

        Apparently by the Taliban, yes.

        But in Europe that is not sufficient to lose the right to anonymity (and it shouldn’t be, it’s incredibly easy to get charged, no matter whether anything bad happened).

        Do leaders of racist boomer political movements deserve anonymity?

        He isn’t a leader of anything. Hasn’t ever been (even when he was a founding member, he wasn’t the leader).

        He is a nobody (as he should be). And as such he deserves anonymity, yes. Just because he tried to change himself back into no-a-nobody doesn’t mean he has succeeded.

        Why couldn’t he keep it confined to VierChan?

        Nazis are gonna Nazi.

        Edit regarding your edit: yeah, that seems pretty fishy. I don’t think they should have mentioned it, but with enough inside knowledge you’d probably find him by just “84 year old right-wing extremist blogger from Austria”. That is (fortunately) not a huge population. I suspect (and this is purely speculation) that the authors don’t think he deserves anonymity (so they include enough information to find out who it is), but do think they shouldn’t “advertise” his cause (so they make it easy to ignore who he is). Similar to how media outlets in the US have finally decided to not publish the names of mass shooters: there is very little public benefit in publishing it and a very real risk of it encouraging others.

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          suspect authors don’t think he deserves anonymity

          They’re absolutely correct in that assessment and I will defend to the death (forgive my choice of words) the hilarity and their moral correctness for having done so. These people all wanna be famous anyway, how else was he planning on proving his point that its safe?

          Also why should his cause be ignored? Evil florishes in darkness, I really don’t get why you’re defending this guy, particularly when I fee like its such a flimsy case.

          Also these folks are born martyrs

          • rentar42@kbin.social
            32·
            1 year ago

            Out of curiosity: when you first asked, did you want to have the reason explained or were you just in it to argue your position? Because we might have gone into this exchange with different goals.

            • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5·
              1 year ago

              You might have to refesh me as to which point you’e referring to. I’ll try to lighten up a little, I’m just having a hard time containing my Schadenfreud. I kinda can’t believe he didn’t have any like-minded travel companions who similarly believed in his mission

              Edit: something, something, friends and clerics along the way

              • rentar42@kbin.social
                31·
                1 year ago

                This:

                How is his lastname a single letter?

                Oh, and don’t get me wrong: My Schadenfreude is off the charts. I wouldn’t actively wish this on anyone (despite all his crimes and stupidity there’s a pretty good chance that the “charges” are in fact bullshit), but he’s not very high up the list of people I’d shed a tear for.

                It’s just that I don’t believe that tearing down privacy rights to drive an aggressive media frenzy for 24-hour news has shown itself to be particularly good at avoiding fascism.

                • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  3·
                  1 year ago

                  He doesn’t nor should he have a privacy right. He lost that the moment he began a public political movement in my view. Do you seriously refer to Merkel as Angela M? I think Europe has bigger problems than giving narcissists shade from their fame

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          1 year ago

          Since we’re breaking out the big boy quotes:

          charges by the Taliban

          Is the Taliban recognized as a legitimate State that has the power to criminally charge in an internationally recognized way? Can the Taliban call in favors from INTERPOL? Could be awkward…

          Europe

          He’s not charged with a crime in Europe which would be the relevant jurisdiction, wouldn’t it?

          isn’t a leader

          Sorry, founder, well in that case, I guess he gets a pass. Did the founder of the Nazis get the same courtesy or was it just the leader. Also, you’re saying that political party founder’s info is nowhere in public filings or records? Sounds problematic. People who like to stat anonymous don’t usually found national political parties trying to usher in the “good ol’ days” especially

          he’s a nobody

          See previous point, not sure the facts or law are on your side with that. That’s more “table-banging” territory

          Nazis gonna Nazi

          There’s that smile I love ;) I’m just glad we could agree at the end but sadly the “Junges sind Junges” defense is also not internationally recognized aha

          He’ll be fine, these guys are all about pulling onself up by their Nazi bootstraps and bootstrap their way to freedom and political autonomy. I have compelete faith in his competency to stand trial in Afghanistan, they tend to worry about that in passing judgement so he picked the right place to start his next political movement/chapter

          I’m rootin’ for him, this is a true UnterHund story

    • tiredofsametab@kbin.social
      5·
      1 year ago

      I mean, an elderly granny gained a huge online following playing Skyrim. There are also various channels of old people talking about their youth, opinions on today through the lens of their experi nce, etc. with big followings. This guy was also involved in politics, apparently

      • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        Which is why its a crazy argument that he’s entitled to, much less deserves anonymity. When in Rome, you do as Romans do.

        Edit: also, had he succeeded, how much do you wanna bet he would be all over the news and internet bragging about how if Afghanistan is good enough for him, its good enough for…refugees/immigrants? He would definitely be on FoxNews and friends

        Edit: doesn’t seem very fair that if he wins he wins and if he loses he wins by getting to hide his losses he would have been prepared to trumpet had the Taliban been more gentile with him

  • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    1 year ago

    The problem is that you have someone who the law always protected and never bound(ed). Then he takes the party train to a different kingdom where the law binds but does not protect him. Now he wants you to come risk your neck for his protection.

    some of you may die but that is a sacrifice he’s willing to make

    Edit: is Afghanistan advanced enough to even be a Kingdom, not sure about the specs of the nomeclature. I know it usually means medieval…

  • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    11 months ago

    I’m A Right-Wing Extremist Celebrity, Get Me Outta Here

    — Stephen Baldwin Herbert F. Fritz

    F this guy