I was right in the edge of Gen Z and Millennial and grew up being the family’s tech kid. It still astounds me now that my younger sisters don’t know how to even look for solutions. They just get me. Having moved out I get texts and calls sometimes. I’ve had to explain that using a computer is a skill that is learnable. I didn’t learn by going to someone else. I had to learn how to learn. That’s the skill we should be teaching kids. Not how to solve the problems, but how to FIND the solution to problems.
As someone also near the border between Gen Z and Millennial, I relate a lot to this comment. I was also the family tech kid, and since like middle school I’ve always told people “I’m not good with computers, I just know how to use a search engine”
My “computer literacy” is literally just basic research skills; knowing how to formulate a web search and how to identify bad sources.
Right! This is why I say it has more to do with being stubborn than being smart. If you’re determined to find a solution and you’re half decent at research and following instructions, you can figure a lot out, but people treat it like you invented the thing with some magical knowledge that they could never possess.
You’ve just articulated a feeling I’ve had most of my life, but couldn’t have described better.
Solving trivial problems for people they could easily do themselves if they just muddled through the work of it. Then act like I’m a genius, when it’s really just ‘stubbornness’ and refusing to admit i can’t figure it out.
Thanks for that.
But if you are good at using search engine, you are good with computers
On this subject, my personal definition for millennial is someone in the age bracket where they had to teach themselves how to use windows as a kid
I think we can blame the education system. At some point it became solely about passing some arbitrary threshold of students with high exam scores rather than about teaching students how to get by in life.
End result was an education system that simply teaches kids how to pass exams rather than basic life skills like critical thinking.
I also blame the education system, the fact that my computer teacher thought that opening R, trying to reconnect to WiFi, and opening the cmd prompt were all attempts at “hacking” is sad. The fact our robotics class shut down when the exchange student left, because he was the only who knew how to program was sadder.
Part of the problem is the people making the standards don’t even know how ignorant they are themselves. Like I at least recognize I have a lot learning to go, and lean heavily on people more experienced than me in fields I’m not the expert.
I’m also between gen Z and millennial and was the family’s tech kid and still get calls. Are you me? :D
Just yesterday I got a call asking how to select all images in a directory… And then another call about how to get those images to Google Drive, which is literally just drag and drop… And one of the people involved was my gen Z younger sister.
The late 90s Gen Z/Millennial DMZ is a painful place to exist. Constant and mandatory tech support.
The ones that is blamed for the ills of society by both the baby boomers and younger gen zs
Yep. I was born 1998. To Millennials, I’m a tiny baby Gen Z, to Gen Zs, I may as well be a boomer. It’s odd.
Growing up poor confuses things even more, because I have more in common with people born late 80s/early 90s than with people born only a few years after me. My first game console was a SNES and we had a VCR until we got a PS2, and kept using it well after.
Hah, are we the same person? My family was poor too. I’m a bit younger (born 2000) but I grew up using a VCR, and my first console was a GBA where I played a lot of SNES ports. The internet has existed my entire life, but I still remember before smartphones were a thing. It’s a really weird place to be socially. I don’t connect with Gen Z culture in almost any way, but I’m also distinctly not a millennial.
Interestingly my older sister (1998) who has zero interest in anything tech is actually pretty tech savvy for how little she cares about it. I think she crossed that threshold of learning how to learn, where even when she comes across something she doesn’t understand she knows how to approach the problem.
95 here. Started with the original GameBoy and an old Macintosh in the basement. My first computer was a POS gateway with the cow logo and 128MB of RAM. Finished up high school with the Xbox 360 and an iPhone. I’m a retrogrouch to Gen Z and some kind of hacker to most Millenials. My GF (same age) and I jokingly call ourselves “MillenialZ” (with an obnoxious accentuated zzzzzz at the end) because we don’t quite fit in with either generation.
I love it. I think that should be the official title for our mini generation.
Growing up poor confuses things even more
Yeah this is why generations aren’t actually a good metric. I might as well be from another planet lol
Man, I didn’t realize that article was written in 2013, it could’ve been written today, and it still would’ve been true. I think one of the biggest contributions to the tech illiteracy of people is, 1. Schools don’t really teach you about that kind of stuff (in my experience, or unless you take a special course) and 2. Everything is basically done for you now, its incredibly easy to do anything basic on computers.
So when the author says it’s the 30-50 year olds that know how to use computers, today it’s the 40-60 year olds. I’d say it goes older than that.
One thing that used to bug me on reddit was youngsters going on about how over-50s wouldn’t know how to use a computer. That hasn’t been the case for decades now.
Hear hear! We 40-50+ year old geeks were learning the Internet as it rolled out. Before that we were upgrading our PCs and modems as funds permitted, joining & running BBS’s on DOS. OS/2 seemed futuristic and I ran it for a while, but Linux won my heart. As a teenager, I had my favourite kernel hackers, tested their patches, chatted with them on IRC. Before that, we had our C64s, Amiga 500s and similar. We had the greatest opportunity to learn, and we loved it.
Over the last 10 years I’ve really had to dumb down my interview questions, covering a wider range of topics until I (hopefully) find a spark of passion and beyond-user-level knowledge about anything (even unrelated to the position)… it used to be easier.
I feel like getting into opensource software is easier than it ever was at least, the biggest Barrie’s I see are people thinking they can’t and advertising making people defensive about sticking to proprietary options.
I was showing an intern how to install a software the intern needed. The computer setup was a laptop with two external monitors. After we installed the software from one of the external monitors, the intern asked “so will this install the software in the other screen?” I was flabbergasted.
I mean… Technically it would.
I’m pushing 50 and when people ask me how I know so much about computers, my first comment is that I had to program my first computer for it to do anything.
My second is that I actively sought to learn, and you can too.
Later in life Linux played a huge role in understanding how these contraptions work. Ironically, I’m a human factors engineer, so I’m also guilty of creating part of the problem. User interfaces that “just work”… Until they don’t.
I had to program my first computer for it to do anything.
Sadly, most people have no grasp what that even means. I’ve had adults think that means I “downloaded something into the computer” and then it worked.
It was around that time I just stopped talking to anyone outside of my geek circle about anything technical. Best to play dumb.
Yeah, I realized I started to sound snarky when I said “I work on computers” when people ask me what I do. Didn’t mean it to sound dumb, it was just honestly the level of understanding about computers a lot strangers had when they asked.
Saying I did networking or worked with servers didn’t mean much, but sometimes people would ask me to work on their WiFi…
My wife and I were just talking about this the other day.
I’m not in IT but I work as an industrial maintenance electrician, and knowing how computers work solves more problems than people realize!It’s so frustrating when people are like “Well I don’t need to know how computers work.”
Every aspect of our lives is governed by computers in one way or another. I can’t imagine not being curious to know how they work.
People feel the same way about cars, electricity, food preservation. People’s lives are interdependent on massively specialized technical disciplines and most of them couldn’t care less. I understand that the amount of specialization that goes into some topics means you can’t be an expert on all of these subjects, but some people just could not give a single shit how any of it works, and do not have any understanding of the ways in which it might stop working.
I’ve come to greatly resent any sort of technology or design being dismissed as “magic”, because I’ve met too many people who mean it literally.
Absolutely. I’ll be the first to admit my knowledge of cars is lacking, but that doesn’t mean I’m not interested in learning about it. It’s fine to not know things, but it’s weird to not want to know things.
I like to think I have the general gist of how cars work and go together, even if I couldn’t literally get in one and replace some arbitrary part (other than tires/batteries/fluids) without a lot of guides.
Yeah, I feel like I know all the very specific stuff from watching videos about how 4-stroke engines and such work, but the moment I open my actual-for-real hood I’m mostly clueless outside of very basic maintenance.
Hello iphone buyers
At my job I have to explain to fully grown adults where the Start menu is on a regular basis.
To be fair it doesn’t help that Microsoft keeps moving the damn thing.
I’m seeing this with my oldest niece and nephew. They’re okay with navigating their android tablets; but if you ask either them of troubleshoot a problem on the PC, they both just end up coming to me. Neither of them know how to research solutions either. Ugh.
Im a 6th semester software engineer student, back in first semester I had classmates that didn’t even know how to zip a folder
He was there to learn, right? Is a first semester student expected to know specific programs without explanation?
Zipping a folder is on of the most basic features of any os. It’s weird that he was so unfamiliar with computers and decided to get into compsci
It’s what happens when everyone says it’s a moneymaker. Most of them transfer out of the program after first year
Zipping a folder has 0 to do with compsci in the first place. Unless it’s a course on compression.
There seems to be a lack of good basic computer science education unfortunately. Schools and so on never caught up with the speed of technological advance. And back when I was in school, teachers taught things like “How do I use formulas in MS Excel” in computer science. It’s probably still that way, so it’s not neutral at all, instead you’re learning how to use specific software products (often, Microsoft’s). So relying on school education alone may be hopeless. But you can always learn for yourself or from others.
Computers, math, cooking, cleaning, exercise, eating properly.
It’s just another in a long list of things that some grown-ass adults act like is somehow beyond them because that’s easier than trying.
Definitely not unique to any generation.
It sure is getting worse, though.
lol it’s really not, at all. every generation tells themselves this and it’s always bullshit.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
- Attributed to Socrates, ~400 BC
There are objective metrics one can use, rather than basing your opinion on your personal observation window.
There are, sure. And you are going to cherry-pick the ones that allow you to feel a smug and very much unearned sense of superiority.
I’m old and educated, so sorry.
No need to apologize to me, I’m not the one making a fool out of myself.
Educated indeed. Lmao.
easier than trying
I’m sure there are plenty of cases of this, but I feel the need to point out that a lot of times there can be mental illness at the root. Which is definitely not easier than trying.
…and the blog owner can’t use Let’s Encrypt.
And he thinks TL;DRs are for kids with ADHD. Totally egotistic. I’m sure his whole point can be heavily TL;DR’d.
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I’m going to go against the grain a bit here - while there were some nuggets of truth, there was also a lot of insufferable behavior from someone who’s job it was to teach technology to people who don’t know technology. This person recounted so many great teaching moments in such a dismissive way, it just made me sad.
I absolutely get how frustrating it can be to work in customer-facing technical roles, and to get dismissed for it. But if one of my customers was smart enough to embed a YouTube video in a PowerPoint slide, they’re smart enough to understand when I say “it looks like PowerPoint is trying to load it from YouTube every time you hit play, but YouTube is blocked on our network. Let’s think through some other options”. Not only that, it’s critical information the next time they want to present a video, and it’s information they can share with others around them too.
I’m going to go a bit further and say that kids today are not worse than in the past. It’s been 20 years since I taught computers but the doom and gloom here could have easily been posted in 2002 with only minor rewording.
GUIs got good with the launch of the Mac in 1984, and by the launch of XP & Mac OS X in ‘01 good GUIs were cheap. This brought computers into way more homes and exposed them both to kids who liked them for their own sake and to kids who saw them primarily as a tool.
I think people like this handwringing about kids not understanding computers on a deep enough level for their taste are just being obtuse.
I write software now instead of teaching and I write the kind of software that people should be able to just use as a tool.
We’ve had 20 years where the vast majority of computer users understand latin better than they understand their computers. It’s fine. It’ll continue to be fine.
Every one learns something for the first time. Expert to noob all start in the same state of knowing nothing.
I love how everyone is acting like this is a new thing. People have never been able to use computers.
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I feel like he addresses this quite well in the conclusion. In regards to cars, “this is not a new phenomenon” and admits to his reliance on salesmen and mechanics.
Ultimately, he’s asking that the people who make decisions about how our world is shaped have some knowledge about the things that are going to shape the world. And that essential issue is still unaddressed. Remind me, how many years ago was it that US Congress was asking Google why the bad articles show up when you search their name?
Oh, and our car-centric society in the US largely sucks. That may or may not have anything to do with our general understanding of a motor, but maybe it’s worth considering how much thought has really gone into the implications of these massively affecting technologies.
Website: coding2learn
http site only
Lmao
I giggled at that too, especially when combined with the blogger’s quote “Ask them what https means and why it is important and they’ll look at you as if you’re speaking Klingon.”
Well, your comment just shows your tech illiteracy. https is useless when you don’t need to deal with sensitive data.
It’s definitely not the case that it’s useless. A MITM can embed malware into the page it returns if you aren’t being served over HTTPS. It’s not just about snooping on sensitive data going one or both ways, it’s about being sure that what you’re receiving is from who you actually think you’re receiving it from.
(Edit to add:) I actually went to look at some of the rest of the site and it confirms what I suspected: not using HTTPS here puts the reader at risk. Because this website provides code snippets and command line snippets that the user is to run, by not presenting it over HTTPS, it becomes susceptible to malicious MITM editing of the content.
For example, this line on the site:
- Install Homebrew (ruby -e “$(curl -fsSL https://raw.github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/go/install)”)
Could be intercepted, since it’s not being served HTTPS, and be replaced with utf-8 lookalike characters that really downloads and runs a malicious ruby script! Even easier, perhaps, they could just insert an item into the bulleted list that has the user run a malicious command.
HTTPS is not just for security of personal or private information. It is also for verifiable authenticity and security in contexts like this.
Yeah, it’s also easy enough to set up that a coding website not doing it is almost embarrassing.
Indeed. See my edit on the parent comment–I noticed that the website provides commands to the user to run, which makes it ripe for MITM attacks: if the user is copying-and-pasting commands to run into their shell, those need to be served over HTTPS.
she maintains a facade of politeness around them, while inwardly dismissing them as too geeky to interact with
Reeks of “incel” attitude.
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