Hi /c/vegan,
I’m a baby “vegan”, just started about a month ago. I started watching the YouTuber MicTheVegan as my main influence.
I’ve been really working on and developing my belief system. The issue is, my belief system so far, while it is like 97% consistent with veganism, does have some conflicts with veganism, and I think some people would say that I can’t call myself a vegan because of that.
Basically, I think it’s too broad to simply lump all animals into one category and say that any at all exploitation of them is wrong. Instead, I like taking a very scientific approach about what we know about different animals’ cognitive and emotional abilities, and perhaps prioritize different groups of animals differently.
While I’m still developing my belief systems, here’s a basic rundown of it:
Tier 1: Primates, cetaceans (whales, dolphins), elephants, certain bird species (corvids, parrots), octopuses
These animals are highly intelligent and should never be exploited for any manner. They should not be kept as pets or in zoos (I suppose exceptions for if an animal is injured beyond repair).
Tier 2: Domesticated mammals (dogs, cats), farm animals (pigs, cows), other bird species, certain fish species (cleaner wrasse, groupers)
The only difference between these animals and tier 1 animals, is that I believe they can be kept in captivity (pets or in zoos). However, they need to be kept up to really high standards. They need a lot of space and a lot of enrichment. Yes, I currently believe that most people who keep dogs as pets do not treat them well enough, but I also believe that if you do treat them well that it is okay.
Tier 3: Reptiles, amphibians, remaining fish species.
The only difference between these animals and tier 2 animals is that I think the standard for keeping them in captivity can be slightly lowered. I say this as a reptile lover, I have a couple lizards as pets. These animals still need very high standards for treatment, but I believe it’s okay to keep them in “cages” (really terrariums and aquariums). Basically, the science we have says that these animals just don’t need the same level as enrichment. Some lizards will literally sit in one spot for days. And yes, I highly believe that these animals are abused in reality. Many people keep these animals in far too small enclosures, among other problems.
The discussion of whether or not it’s okay to breed these animals is highly nuanced, but I know with reptiles and amphibians, they really don’t have any connection to their offspring so I don’t think it’s unethical to separate them. Some reptiles who lay eggs will even lay eggs regardless of if they are fertilized or not. I haven’t made my mind up about it, but I think you could make an argument that you could ethically breed reptiles, maybe even argue that allowing them to breed let’s them live a more natural life.
Tier 4: Insects, arachnids
Okay this is where a lot of vegans will lose me. These animals should absolutely never be tortured, but I personally think that they can be ethically farmed and consumed. I think these animals have simple enough brains that their quality of life when in a farmed environment really isn’t that much different than their natural lives. I personally don’t eat bugs, but I feed them to my lizards. That being said, I still think they deserve a decent amount of space, some enrichment, and a cruelty free life up until their death.
Tier 5: Bivalves (clams, mussels), annelids (earthworms), sponges.
Once again will get some hate for it, but these animals I also believe can be farmed and with even less consideration than the tier 4 animals. I don’t really think these animals need any laws protecting them. They don’t have central nervous systems.
Animal I’m not sure about: Crustaceans (somewhere between tier 3 and tier 4), Many fish species need more research (but I do standby that some fish, like carp and goldfish, belong in my tier 3).
I’m curious what other vegan’s thoughts are about this. Can I not call myself a vegan because of this?
I’ve been vegan for 12 years and my position on this has changed somewhat over the years. Although, that’s mostly philosophical and doesn’t really affect my actions.
I agree that our moral consideration should be based on the subjective experience of a being rather, instead of which biological category they belong to.
This is why nowadays I believe that the consumption of an organism from the animal kingdom, that can be reasonably considered not an individual, is not a matter of moral good or bad. I think certain bivalves like scallops or oysters don’t have brains. Therefore it would be reasonable to assume they don’t have an individual experience that would be affected by killing/harvesting them.
For me veganism is about respecting the desires of a non-human individual to not feel harm, not have their body exploited, their children taken away, and not have their life taken from them. It is about treating animals as individuals, not commodities. I don’t care about biological taxonomy.
If that does not make me vegan, I don’t mind. I will still call myself vegan in everyday situation for two reasons:
So to (not) answer your question: at the end of the day it’s up to you if you want to call yourself a vegan or not. If you don’t fully align with the moral views that are held by most ethical vegans but still eat a vegan diet, maybe go with the term plant-based. If you think your views won’t really be subject of discussion or scrutiny in your everyday life and you mostly agree with a vegan worldview, call yourself vegan for the sake of simplicity and representation. If none of those answers feel right, don’t call yourself either and explain your dietary choices every time you eat in a social situation without using the words “vegan” or “plant-based” :D
I hope that was somewhat helpful. Good luck!
I totally agree with the representation part. I understand I might not technically be 100% vegan, but calling myself vegan spreads awareness of veganism within my friend and family circle.