I think it’s because the image suggests we’re fine with an outcome other than Ukraine winning without a square millimeter of territory lost.
Yes we also don’t favour neonazi wishful thinking and were also never pretending otherwise.
Unless of course they mean deprogram sub, it’s full of westolefto pretending to be marxists, but immediately more or less aligning with NATO when Ukraine is in question.
Many people there need to be deprogrammed. With the occasional sealioning lib to get murdered chapo style.
I’m kinda ashamed at myself by the low frequency of cases where i demand posting hog from random brigadiers.
I wish, hope and other such words that the constant stream of “revolutionary defeatism” regurgitated without thought is a sign that these are baby leftists in the process of learning. I hope this because it can very well be a radlib using some out-of-context bit of theory their favourite youtuber told them to use, and that’s just not a nice possibility.
I think this is the case that makes the most sense. I think the Deprogram is designed for people with essentially no Marxist understanding. That would lead to the listeners of it (and hence the participants in its sub) to likely just say whatever they hear the most (and they will always hear how the Russians are “evil invaders of Ukraine who are killing civilians”) and they will assume that to be true because, simply put, they don’t much about it. And if they think that to be the sole truth and for it to be truly that simple of course they will think Russia=Bad and Ukraine=Good.
I can’t speak for the subreddit, but I love the podcast and I’m definitely not a NATO enjoyer. I’m surprised that there are people that are who listen.
There are also ML’s there of course. However, some topics cause all manner of shitty utopians to come out of woodwork: religion, Gonzalo, US veterans, Deng Xiaoping and of course Ukraine war. Main problem with centrists is that they are NATO enjoyers in practice, because when they bothside the imperialist hegemon, they are effectively siding with imperialists.
Ah, now that you mention it I see this in a lot of leftist circles. It’s a shame that people can be so close, yet so far.
Well you see, they do not diferentiate between us and social democrats, so us being anti america is soc dems going mask off… This is the best I can do … I have no idea
I think they believe that you guys are lying about opposing NATO warmongering or something. They can’t wrap their head about the idea that people are open about their beliefs and not hiding them somehow
I think this talk calls for more theoretical analysis of what this “US” really is, which I believe is much more complex than just another capitalist state.
I think there are layers of what the US really is. There is a “low layer” of a government regulating and managing people within its borders, just like all others. There is US capital where the prime actors are actually based, living, operating from the US, and there is capital managed by US financial institutions but for actors outside the US. In general the vast majority of global capital is somehow linked with US based financial institutions (industry, energy, transportation, commodities, communication -capital) and those fin.inst. act as a lobby to the US governement to have as a priority to protect their interests globally.
This later part appeals to a layer of the US as “defense” which has little to do with internal/border defense but is a global capital defense mechanism. This layer and the other local/internal layer are not really connected or in coordination with each other.
Then there is the US as people, a country geared and operating as to constantly be overproducing an army to serve this external army layer. It is almost as if the only reason the US exists is as a producer of military personnel, and the rest of society is just a necessary evil for producing such an army. The rhetoric of nationalism, the love of the flag, the religious connection between god and America (capitalism against the evil of communism) is all connected to this industrialized soldier manufacturing plant.
If you think of all other social policy of the US this model explains education, health, transport, construction, media. It is a big base and some people outside the base supporting those on the base.
Otherwise adorable hardworking people doing what they were taught to do best. So when we speak of the US we should specify what aspect and layer of the US are we speaking about.
Absolutely, there is a reason why people say that US imperialism is the primary contradiction at hand in the world.
However, I think you are leaving out important analysis of the US labor aristocracy. Not only is there the production of military forces and internal rhetoric, but you also must mind other things like: the massive export of Amerikan culture, via Hollywood etc; the superprofits shared with the Americans at home to have inflated consumer lifestyles- mismatched to their value of labor; and the long standing internal divisions with in the American working class, of course fostered and encouraged by the bourgeoisie.
True, media weaponized. It serves as conditioning for the majority of passive participants through the planet. The individualist, the apolitical, the apathetic, the “I choose not to participate in political discussion”, all programmed into the media, social or otherwise. In exchange for this passivity there is the sense of control, “I can rub my screen and get things done, because I am a smart android user”. I wonder if there is a joke about it being called android.
If conditions in the US force people to behave a certain way, the rest of the world will pretend they are American as well. So you have people in india on a 50cc scooter double up, waiting for an order of fries to share, in the drive through of Indian McD. They feel like Liam Nieson for a moment.
People sitting in a corner passing out a political leaflet? Pathetic losers. The world wants to be on the side of winners for a change, since everything else in their life is turning to shit.
The sad part is left wing minded progressive social psychologists did studies to provide this system with tools to manipulate people.
Calling it a “mask off” moment implies that we wore a mask in the first place
USA losing influence and military power is a great victory for humanity not only for the left
The tankiejerker are red fascist who depends entirely on strawmaning, self contradicting criticisms, and propaganda support from fascist states for their indoctrination. They need to criticize anti-imperialist for support to Putin (for alleged occupation of Ukraine) and for no support to Putin (for imagined hypocrisy that the Liberals made in their imaginary world) at the same time.
I think the fact that they can only communicate in memes kinda says it all about the complete lack of nuance on display
the fact that they can only communicate in memes kinda says it all
One thing I love about genuine “tankie” spaces is the way we’ve sort of subverted memes. Somebody will post something deliberately outrageous, like “Stalin giant spoon liberals face the wall gulag NO GRAIN FOR YOU,” and it will somehow lead to intelligent discussion.
Absolute nerd ❤️
Every Amerikan needs to read the works of William Blum.
Every Amerikan who reads those works and remains a patriot afterwards needs to be redacted.
The U.S. is the evil empire, full stop. There has been no evil, nor, do I believe, will there ever again be a human evil that can compare, and liberal equivocation speaks to nothing more than a fundamental Amerikan stupidity and ignorance.
No nation has raped or pillaged like this one has. No nation has committed genocide so efficiently and effectively, no nation has birthed ideologies and ideals so horrific I do not deign to ponder them too long, no nation has such a horrible, bloody, history and present.
Do I support Russia winning out over the U.S.? Yes. 100%.
The Amerikan Reich is everything the Nazi scum wanted Germany to be. I’d support xenosupremacist Martians destroying it. I’d support the devil himself reaching up from hell and rending the state into a million tiny pieces. I’m more principled than any fucking liberal who claims to detest violence yet finds themself on the side of the most brutal regime to have ever existed time after fucking time.
I absolutely agree that the US empire is the most evil entity in human history, with the possible exception of the British empire which preceded and in some ways birthed it, and that it absolutely needs to be destroyed. But speaking practically, this kind of immflamatory rhetoric doesn’t do us communists any favors, and I’d caution against employing it.
I see you and Aru’s points, to some extent.
I am sick of liberals pretending any of what I said is untrue, however. There is no equivocation. Those extranational evils so easily disparaged, so easily allegedly thrown into the dustbin of history by some Amerikans - the Third Reich, the settler state of Israel and its occupation of Palestine, Pinochet, Marcos, on and on and on - it all comes back to the U.S.
U.S. funding, U.S. arming, U.S. training, U.S. nuking, U.S. carpet bombing, U.S. chemical weaponry, U.S. bioterrorism, U.S. psychological terrorism, U.S. ideological indoctrination and the dissemination of Nazi ideals, of Salafist ideals, of even “communist ideals” so long as they contradict the transitional state of unipolarity unto multipolarity or defend against a challenge to capitalist hegemony.
Millions of consciousnesses blinked from existence just to satiate the greed of geriatric ghouls who have nothing better to do with their time than destroy the world and take as many of us with them as possible along the way. Forgive me for being angry.
Regarding my own equivocations between Amerika and the Nazi regime - in fact my expression that Amerikan empire is 100x worse than the Nazis ever hoped to be - I will add that fascism is of course capitalism in decay. Fascism is nothing more than the shameful vestigial twin of liberalism and Western ‘social democracy’, and that’s quite the existence granted that self-described “liberal” groups have historically done far more to harm humankind than self-avowed “fascists” ever could.
As the 4th comes up, I at the very least will be grinding my teeth. To many in the global south, our flag means death. Our flag is indistinguishable from the flag of the Reich, excepting our flag has overseen far more nigh unspeakable horrors in living memory. But because the globalized world is being assimilated into learning English and not German, because the Nazis retain an otherness not yet found in civilized liberal society, Amerikan imperialists and those who hold water for them act like absolutely nothing is fucking wrong with this perverse display of bloody nationalism.
I do not know what sort of language will crack apologists’ mind prisons. I now speak from my heart, and my heart says that comparing Amerika to Satan is incredibly unkind and unfair to Satan.
edit: I’d also like to make it clear that I am under no illusion that the world would be any better under Nazi hegemony, probably far worse. The material reality of the situation, however, is that the Reich served Amerikan interests for much of its existence, and it is only due to the bravery and courage of the soldiers and citizens of the USSR that we do not live under worldwide Nazi occupation.
The U.S. and its pawns then went on to totally destroy the USSR, bastion against international fascism that it was. Unlike the inherently unsustainable war of extermination tactic of the Nazis, Amerika bled the USSR dry over decades before dealing the death blow by the most cowardly means possible. The USSR saved the world from Nazi rule, and the transatlantic empire could never forgive them for it.
Also reword your paragraph about yk who, you got too excited just remove it and keep the martian stuff
I still stand by my statement to some extent, though I see your point.
I cannot recall the explicit meeting, but I recall seeing an Iranian congressperson expressing that the Iranian state bore no ill will to the Amerikan citizenry, that Amerikan citizens are being chained by the same great devil that has chained Iran. I found it a respectable position.
I still stand by my statement to some extent, though I see your point.
I don’t think there will be a situation where fascists will attack amrikka before socialists
