The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.
Ahh wonderful, time for so many future children to be born horribly disfigured via contaminated drinking water. Also don’t forget all the booming cancer rates!
We have advanced beyond fighting to the last Ukranian and are now involving future Ukranians
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You sure seem angry about someone not wanting children harmed
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Lmao wow
what the fuck did you just say to me,
Whatever munition you choose, it will lead to heavy metal poisoning.
Pun intended?
depleted uranium is much worse than conventional ammo.
Being invaded is worse.
The quickest way to save the most amount of lives is whatever gets rid rid of Russia the quickest.
No question.
Depleted Uranium is hardly dangerous.
Another booby trapped mine with a grenade underneath gets placed by Russians every 4 minutes.
Another Ukrainian citizen is tortured.
And now there are reports of Ukrainian children being tortured.
Bring on the napalm.
Depleted Uranium is dangerous for anyone exposed to it. It will be a persistant environmental pollutant that could render large areas unsuitable for agriculture. Downplaying the effects is stupid and dangerous.
We need to talk about the effects and weigh the military benefit vs. the long term problems. Also for the military benefit you cannot take the shortcut of assuming no AP munitions to be used otherwise. Also the question is whether stronger AP abilities are needed, as Abrams should make quick work of T64s and probably T72s with normal AP rounds too.
So we have to weigh a potentially marginal benefit with a significant long term health effect. I trust the Ukranian army and government to make that decision, but again the issues shouldn’t be downplayed. Because of downplaying and ignoring the issues with it there is thousands of American and British vets that suffer from diseases and birth defects in their children, struggling to get it recognised and properly compensated.
Depleted uranium is not much different from lead. Heavy metals are unhealthy. It is barely radioactive as it is made from the rather stable uranium isotopes. (Hence depleted)
Uranium is pretty toxic compared to lead. LD50 is roughly 114 mg/kg vs. 4665 mg/kg depending on source. If you happen to get that dust inside your body, the radiation isn’t going to help you stay healthy either.
Link medical studies or gtfo
the “quickest way to save the most amount of lives” is peace talks. Both armies are locked in a stalemate and the war is going nowhere.
What is the point of peace talks with Russia? Promises and assurances by Russia have had no weight or effect. Which is why the war even happened. Also, Russia can end the war any day they want.
Russia started the war in the first place because — whether you think the fear is reasonable or not — Russia has loudly proclaimed for decades that they view NATO encirclement as an existential threat, and Ukraine joining NATO would massively expand NATO presence on the Russian border, leaving basically only Belarus as a buffer. And if Ukraine took Crimea with them while joining NATO, Russia would lose access to their only deep warm-water port on the black sea, Sevastapol, a port that is economically significant to them.
Maybe if Russia stopped invading their neighbors, then other neighbors wouldn’t feel the need to join NATO as protection from Russia.
It’s not.
Whatever water you drink, it will lead to heavy metal poisoning (eventually).
Whatever music you listen to, it will lead to heavy metal poisoning. Or to malmusicion.
Whatever heavy metal poisoning you get, it will lead to murmaider.
Not sure if dad joke.
Can’t wait for Azov to become the new Taliban and bite America in the ass
File size requirements made me create this low res monstrosity lmao, also please do replace the Tilted Towers for the Palace of Culture and Sciences for thr more realistic scenario.
“Lol, how could people in the past be so dumb? Anyway, I’m off to give cluster bombs to some Nazi paramilitary groups.”
FYI that text was not in rambo
TIL. Apparently what it actually said was “The Gallant People of Afghanistan,” but the point is largely the same.
I thought they went back and changed it after the fact.
That’s what the rumor said, but googling seems to indicate it was a hoax. Though like I said the original is basically the same thing.
I mean who else it could even mean in USA movie? Especially considering what was in that particular movie.
bite America in the ass
It won’t be America it bites in the ass; they’ll be a deadly menace to their neighbors in the West (as I would imagine Russia is going to remain on its toes about armed Ukrainian militias). They’ve been pretty open about their far right views. Frankly this was actually a brilliant strategy for the government; much like how they turned the Middle East into nations yearning for America’s protection, so too will the rest of (Western) Europe now become new clients. As a business strategy it’s brilliant, my only question is why European governments and the idiots who vote for them over there actually going along with this; you’re watching the car careening towards the cliff, why are you cheering the guy pushing it from behind rather than slamming on the brakes.
Even the Taliban didn’t commit 9/11 until the US had already been engaged in military actions in Afghanistan for years by that point. War profiteering is the point.
That guy is about as real as the elections in a Soviet country.
There’s no proof he’s ever even been to Ukraine 😂
about as real as the elections in a Soviet country
Because capitalist elections between corporate donors are so real lmao
Are you going to vote for Bloomberg or Blackstone next year? Good little piggy.
You Americans are something else. There’s a world outside your little shithole bubble you know.
I’m not even American. Our economy is global and America is the imperial core of that economy.
One of my local PMs was caught taking bribes from the NRA a few years back ffs
Seems like a guy who would have fit right in: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Aw jeez his made up record would have fit right into this article?
Who cares he’s still not real.
How do you know? So it is just your opinion? There is a video with testimony - what exactly do you got that makes you so sure?
There’s literally no proof he’s ever been to Ukraine. You want me to prove a negative. Good luck with that.
Edit: lol I’m gonna do the impossible. He couldn’t have been in Ukraine while being simultaneously in prison.
Every person involved in making this decision deserves to be buried in an unmarked grave with the weapons they love so much. How many innocent people completely uninvolved with the war are going to grow up suffering the effects of depleted uranium rounds? Another absolutely monstrous decision in a long line of monstrous decisions by the US government.
Yes, we get it, the response to literally every decision you don’t like is massacre of the people you don’t like
Are you aware of what depleted uranium does to the human body? Innocent people are going to be dealing with the consequences of a decision made by a handful of people across the planet for decades after the war ends. Does poisoning generations of people sound like “defending” Ukrainians to you?
But Depleted uranium isn’t enriched uranium.
You’re lying.
depleted uranium is a radioactive carcinogen, and linked to substantial increases in birth defects and cancer in Iraq
Who said it was? It’s still an environmental contaminant, a carcinogen, and linked to a rise in birth defects after its use in Iraq
It’s use will have consequences far outside of the conflict and ruin the lives of who knows how many people who had absolutely no say in this war and I’m supposed to cheer it on?
Yes, but why are you upset about this particular heavy metal as opposed to all the others involved in weapons?
The op is specifically about depleted uranium but hey, if you want to make the case that we shouldn’t be sending weapons to Ukraine in the first place I’m not going to argue against it
In that case, why do you pretend to care only about certain weapons when you don’t want any weapons sent?
Depleted uranium is still a very dangerous heavy metal. It just doesn’t irradiate what it poisons.
- Yes, I’m aware of the effects of depleted uranium on the human body; are you? 2) What would you propose to help Ukraine evict the genocidal invaders from its territory?
Now we’re just throwing genocide into the mix?
No
Non radioactive munitions.
Show this thread to someone from the 1980s and they would kill themselves. Mainly over your shit
What a compelling response 🙄
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Bruh said le sigh…
No analysis, just vibes. Gonna go genocide some mashed potatoes rn
Just stepped in someones front yard without permission, which is technically an invasion, and ive been told this is tantamount to genocide. Am I an imperialist war criminal, Hexbear?
Guilty of all charges.
Sounds like a typical fash pastime
What would you propose to help Hawaii evict genocidal invaders from its territory?
Seeing one thing Hm, this is like every thing
-The Eternal Lib
It’s almost like I’ve seen this same redfash response multiple times 🤔
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It’s almost like my original comment was correct
Your original comment was word salad.
Just because you can’t understand it, doesn’t mean it’s word salad comrade
Redfash one hell of an oxymoron considering the reds are in the habit of killing fash.
That’s what they want us to think, anyway
There are complications, but a dialectical analysis shows that redfash are indeed fascists, and there’s no need for Holocaust denial to say so
“You are treating a specific example like a broad generalization to deflect someone’s valid point”
vs.
“Heard that one before
”Fallacy of the beard. Marx’s beard, even.
What do you think should be done with war profiteers that destroy societies for money?
The same that should be done to all fascists, including the red ones
It’s a tankie, that’s their answer to everything they can’t strawman around.
They aren’t that dangerous as a weapon of war. The uranium is depleted, as the name suggest. The alternative is heavy metal, which is also dangerous to breathe in. It’s war and it sucks for health. Maybe there shouldn’t have been an invasion…
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7903104/ this shit is still causing birth defects in Iraq. This is Ukraine’s future now.
And so do other heavy metals. What do you suggest they use that won’t have negative health impacts (which is ironic for something designed to kill, but whatever)?
Any heavy metal causes similar issues. Heavy metal will be used, whether it’s uranium or something else. Should they just stop shooting?
Unironically yes. A peace deal was in the works last year until, according to the Ukranian Pravda, Boris Johnson pressured Zelensky not to go through with it. This would have stopped the fighting and resulted in some withdrawal of Russian troops, but since the West is more interested in weakening their geopolitical rivals and helping the weapons industry rake in profit than ending the war, they squashed any possibility of that happening.
No, Ukraine didn’t want to give up but they were becoming desperate. Boris Johnson came in to let them know the West was finally willing to offer some support. Ukraine giving up would not have resulted in the withdrawal of russian troops from their newly conquered territory
Uranium is a very dangerous heavy metal, it just isn’t radioactive.
Depleted Uranium is definitely radioactive. It’s depleted but there are still radioactive isotopes in it. It’s relatively same to handle until it’s fired and some of it turns to dust. The dust is both poisonous and radioactive. The toxicity of it is probably worse than the radiation but they’re both still bad.
The radioactivity is a problem its just like, not significant compared. Sorry my b
Nowhere did I make the claim that it was, that doesn’t change a thing
I’m replying to the person replying to you
My bad, I got the colors of the bars mixed up
Ah, yes, a nice hexbear to giggle at on my Sunday evening.
🌽 🌽 🌽
Post your hog
dropping a bunch of depleted uranium around seems a lot like the actions of a state that couldn’t give less of a shit about the wellbeing of the people living there
“To the last Ukrainian” is no longer enough, now future Ukrainians have to die too.
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tankie is when you think it is bad to knowingly poison children
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you know when we met I was on the fence about anarcho-natoism but your warm wit and gentle compassion over the course of our acquaintance has really brought me around. Thank you
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Go blow yourself up for ukraine, dronie
Why would I blow myself up if I was using a drone you dumb fuck. Jesus you guys are dumb.
Wine cave warrior NAFO ghouls are already doing Adults In The Room armchair calculations about how these death treats will increase chances of a profitable victory for their corporate masters by .03216% and how it’s a heroic sacrifice that disposable Ukrainians must make to defend the land for future profitability.
🍷 🍷 
Luckily, the uranium dust is only a problem if the Ukrainian tanks actually get in sight of the Russians.
Why though? Can’t imagine that these rounds are going to change the course of the war, so why? Are they out of non-Uranium ones?
the cruelty is the point
Nope the effectiveness is the point.
Imagine being this bloodthirsty you’re willing to let Ukrainians suffer the effects of depleted uranium just to kill more Russians
“let” Ukrainians.
Your patronising colonial mask is slipping.
Ukrainians have ASKED for these weapons so they can get rid of the murderous, child torturing Russians out of their country.
Stop amplifying the propaganda of child torturers.
“Opposing the poisoning of masses of innocent people who had no say in the war is propaganda. I am very smart!”
I think Russia would be the most bloodthirsty if this was a contest. Good try though.
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The body count of the West is several orders of magnitude higher than Russia’s
Whataboutism.
Please don’t use that against them, even as a bit as it’s extremely powerful and causes irreperable emotional damage. Be mindful, libs are people too.
Imagine defending a regime that targets hospitals and schools for missile attacks and rains white phosphorous down on cities.
If the Russians cared about anything beyond their own expansionist agenda, they’d retreat and end the war they started. If you actually cared about the suffering of Ukrainians, you would stop being a mouthpiece for that regime.
Fuck, I almost thought you were on about the US and Israel but guess not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Too bad you still are pushing for the war to even continue. You don’t want the Russians to genocide every single Ukrainian so you still propose they should just do it themselves and continue running straight into landmines. 🙄
How about some peace talks? Maybe? Oh wait Boris Johnson thought otherwise…
Yes it’s that simple isn’t it? At least to a simpleton.
Because of the uranium bullets are denser and heavier than the lead bullets and you can use the uranium bullets on certain types of aircraft and other weapons systems to shred through medium to heavy armor that could not be penetrated with a lead bullet. TLDR this will be used as a force multiplier.
They are harder and penetrate armour better. So yes they will provide an advantage.
The sooner Russian occupiers are no longer murdering Ukrainians and dropping mines over every square meter of land, the less harm comes to Ukrainians.
Tungsten penetrators perform better than DU ones. They’re just more expensive and Ukrainian lives aren’t worth that much.
Plenty enough to rip through the Russian armor! These are just old stockpiles of ammunition that weren’t getting use anyways.
love to refresh my arsenal via proxy war
Love to get rid of my toxic waste by simply poisoning a different populace
I know it hard for the recently scratched liberals to understand this, but It’s perfectly okay to decommission a weapon, you don’t have to use it on people to get rid of it.
No individual measure aside from troops on the ground or nukes is going to change the course of the war by itself.
The ammunition is very effective at punching through the armor. But the Ukrainians will be fucked when in 5 years Leukemia in children is skyrocketing
Maybe but if they lose the war will that be better?
So what, you’re suggesting that right now they are “winning”? By what metric are they “winning”? Western brownie points? Because all of the teenagers and young adults that are 6ft under would beg to differ.
You suggest they roll over and give up?
Russian forced are mechanized and entrenched, depleted uranium self sharpens on impact, yielding far better armor penetration than previous technologies.
And more generational cancer
Ammo is ammo. It’s better than hurling stones.
Yet more confirmation that the West regards Ukrainians as subhuman, and that they know they’re not getting the territory back. Generations of birth defects, the unexploded bombs that cluster bombs leave behind, more and more people being drafted and shoved into a meat grinder in a war that’s already lost, just so some American ghouls can make a bit of extra cash off their Raytheon stocks.
None of this was worth it. But it’s going to keep happening. The US will keep arming Nazis and pushing war over diplomacy and destabilizing everything until something is done to get rid of those bastard war profiteers and the ghouls who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan.
This shit’s so fucking stupid. Can’t wait for the chickenhawks to call me a bad person while sitting behind their keyboards demanding others be forced to fight in their stead.
although the Ukrainians using such rounds in Ukraine also seem to regard other Ukrainians as subhuman
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Using depleted uranium rounds on your own territory seems bad. Especially since ukraine is a major exporter of grain.
Then again , shooting a gun inside is stupid, until someone is breaking in and trying to kill you.
According to the article, studies in places where the ammunition has been used “indicated that the existence of depleted uranium residues dispersed in the environment does not pose a radiological hazard to the population of the affected regions.”
What effect does it have on the grain?
And an environmental hazard, since Uranium is poisonous?
Ok, but the alternative is lead or tungsten, both of which are similarly toxic. So unless you are suggesting Ukraine only fights with artisanaly grown wooden weapons I’m not sure what point you’re making.
Did you completely ignore what he referenced in the article?
As well as being very mildly radioactive, depleted uranium is still a heavy metal, so can poison you in a similar way to lead. IIRC, that’s the most dangerous aspect of the material, and isn’t mentioned by the article.
As opposed to the other bullets that are also heavy metals.
No.
Does not compute. Why should depleted uranium have any effect on grain production. Its strong radioactive components are, as the name says, depleted. The only worry is inhalation immediately following impact.
I think there’s way too much misinformation about this and way too many people talking without a clue
Then again, shooting a gun inside is stupid, until someone is breaking in and trying to kill you.
Killing the opponent is the last resort in most developed countries.
Even as they’re burying your neighbors in mass graves? Interesting…
War has different rules.
If there’s one country to trust with nuclear safety it’s actually Ukraine. Capable engineers and scientists, understanding of institutional failure, and certainly not least memory of Chernobyl.
Oh well… The amount of health risks that these rounds would cause would pale in comparison to the mines that the Orcs have planted everywhere. Anything to drive out the invaders!
Orcs
The only time before the Ukraine War that I saw this term used to refer to real human beings was on Stormfront
Why are you visiting stormfront? Lol outing yourself so readily.
Uh oh! Hexbears been infiltrated!
beep beep beepis this a /s or a fr moment
Their name is UraniumBlazer
A fr moment
Again?
UK did it last time. But yeah, same shit under a different name.
I’m just glad that as an Adult in the room, I’m on the right side of history. Arming Ukranian Nazis with depleted uranium is actually the least evil option and anyone who doesn’t understand that is a child.
Another 50 billion for the cause!
The 500k homeless people in the US humbly accept and understand.
I’m sure Ukrainian soldiers on the front line are worried about cancer and birth defects.
It’s not about them. It’s the children who find the spent ammo later.
This crap is the reason that there are birth defects spikes anywhere the US military operates.
Ok but the alternatives are not environmentally conscious either, finally the people who’s land it is should be the ones making choices about the conditions of that land
The alternative bring tungsten? It’s very stable so anything besides eating a spent rod isn’t going to have effects. If it’s in the air it’ll just be inert. Even if it gets in your lungs it’ll be like any other dust. DU on the other hand would keep emitting radiation internally.
But which people? Government or the people who actually own the land?
And I guess, their favourite choice of “Don’t use any weapons on my land and just clear off voluntairily” is not an option.
I don’t get why people hate on the Ukraine for using weapons to defend themselves. Not like they chose to be attacked.
Is ammo made from lead that much better? I honestly don’t know. Sure the radiation sucks but Uranium, at least the isotope they’re sending is “barely” radioactive. It’s the same Uranium people had in their plates etc. The toxicity is probably the far more relevant factor but I don’t know how Uranium compares to lead.
Depleted uranium is not really that radioactive. Everything is technically radioactive eventually though. Depleted uranium is what’s left behind when you seperate the radioactive stuff out. It’s a heavy metal still, so isn’t good for you, but heavy metals will always be involved. Trying to have a war using only healthy, organic, ethically sourced munitions isn’t going to happen.
It’s nothing to do with radioactivity, it’s the toxicity that comes with most heavy metals.
There isn’t radiation in Depleted uranium.
This makes sense.
I imagine there’s a lot more reasons for birth defect spikes post US mil ops in addition to this. The military isn’t exactly an environmentally conscious operation. ☠️
Sure, burn pits and other crap will help.
But this kind of ammo, kids will find and hang on to. They bring it home, add it to their collection of other cool shit they’ve scavenged…and then their brothers and sisters are born with malformed limbs, mishaped heads, etc.
There have been a lot of stories written about it over the years. The one I read was specifically about Iraq I believe, but it was a while ago.
To be fair, the impact of DU is mostly because of heavy metal poisoning, not radioactivity.
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You’re acting like being near this stuff is akin to standing in Chernobyl while it just isn’t true
The amount of Ukrainians dying right now will pale in comparison to those effected by the munitions.
The controversy around depleted uranium rounds is way overblown.
Even in Iraq the evidence is super inconclusive. And yes birth defects rose however the entire country basically collapsed for years and nothing clearly indicates it was the DU used.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s nasty stuff. But this is war, more people are getting killed by bombs then any DU related cancer can cause.
In Basra the rate of leukemia in children rose dramatically and that is too specific of a disease to not be linked to DU exposure due to the heavy use of it in surrounding tank battles.
- correlation ≠ causation. 2) if the disease is caused by DU, is it due to the radioactivity or the fact that DU is a heavy metal?
i never said it had to be because of radiation. Even just in its effect as a heavy metal it seems to be much worse. Also it could be that it becomes airborn more easily than other metals such as lead, so the wreckage of tanks shot with DU are more dangerous to the people cleaning them up.
Why are you so worried about speculated harms when Ukrainians are actually being raped, tortured, and murdered by russians? Your lack of humanity is showing
Turning “we need to weigh benefits and costs” into “your lack of humanity is showing” is quite a take and obviously has nothing to do with reality.
How do you you it’s not linked to any of the other hundreds of dangerous chemicals?
Because the issue is specific to the region and started specifically after the tank battle where DU ammunition was used. If it would be a general issue with some dangerous chemical being used, we’d expect to see similiar issues in other regions. Of course it is hypotheticakky possible that at the same time some dangerous and persistant chemical exposure happened in the region, but that is not plausible and also the US would have a strong interest in finding such an alternative explanation. But there isn’t any research published, that provided an alternative.
Also look into the wording of the US when sending the ammunition to Ukraine. They state that no radiation hazard is to be expected for the Ukrainians. They do not talk about a toxicological hazard.
We have to remember that Russia caused this war, however. So they also caused the depleted uranium being a possible health risk for future ukrainian children.
Yes, Ukrainian soldiers on front line are worried about cancer and birth defects. They are rational human beings who hope to return to their homes and live long lives and grow healthy children, not some subhumans with only intent to kill, kill, kill, as you wish to think.
I don’t know how rational this is. Given how many soldiers have died so far, if I were a Ukrainian sent to fight on the front line, I wouldn’t expect to be coming back. Rather I’d hope that I contribute to the defeat of the enemy, so that my children or my comrades children don’t grow up under Russian rule. I’m not in their shoes of course. There’s no universal motivation so maybe what you say is more prevalent. That said, this war might not end without soldiers doing a lot more killing so “kill, kill, kill” might be an appropriate viewpoint.
You will get cancer sooner by staying in the sun on a beach or anywhere.
Everyone should worry. Depleted uranium will contaminate large crop production areas and later these grains will be sold all around the world. Everybody will eat some.
What does the “depleted” part of depleted uranium mean?
Depleted means that the radioactive isotope is lower in concentration. It still is somehow radioactive (it’s almost fine if not ingested) and still remains a heavy and toxic metal.
Right, so how are all these large areas and crops going to be contaminated?
When they explode, they spread radioactive dust into the surrounding area. If that area is ever farmed it can contaminate the crops and cause cancer to anyone breathing in the dust
And what is the level of risk of that happening?
Banana is somehow radioactive too you know. Or granit. Anciant Greece monument often are above the radiation levels allowed in a nuclear power plant.
Also, while you talk about it, lead is far far more toxic than depleted uranium. Many metals are toxic actually, that’s why your government monitor water meant for consumption.
lead is far far more toxic than depleted uranium
Looks like that might not be correct. https://lemmy.world/comment/3108233
Ancient Greece used marble for monuments, not granite…
Are you denser then Uranium? Why do you think there is an issue with waste from nuclear power plants? Hint: it is radioactive!
Calls me dense, doesn’t know what depleted uranium is
Sure, whatever makes you feel lighter.
No it won’t
The amount of ruscist sympathisers in this thread is depressing. Are depleted uranium munitions fucked up? Yeah and they shouldn’t be used. But that isn’t an excuse to bootlick a fascist invader that is already performing ethnic cleansing on territories they took last year
