I feel like that sign is a bit alienating, which is unfortunate because it perpetuates the idea that vegans are holier than thou. As a person that (i think) understands the basic reasoning behind veganism (intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty?) i wish that more people would consider it. Hey, maybe that should be a sign
People have been saying that for decades. It doesn’t work. I never understood the concept of “protests shouldn’t make me feel uncomfortable or inconvenience me.” That kind of undercuts the purpose of a protest and trying to spread a message. If you make it so it’s easy to ignore, it doesn’t work. Without fail there’s always the “ugh, someone who tries to make me feel bad about torturing and killing animals is simply not going to convince me to do otherwise.” It’s such a shitty excuse.
I’m generally not confrontational and honestly usually tell people to try their best, but I get tired of people coming to a vegan community and being assholes.
You are failing then. Because most people are barely getting by and having holier than thou people trying to belittle them just means they are going to view the movement as a bunch of self righteous tools.
This is something that I often think about in connection with veganism.
I can sit down and watch a video about how vegetables are produced. It might be boring, but I could watch it.
Most carnists, on the other hand, can’t sit and watch how hamburger, sausage, cheese, etc. is produced. For them to enjoy that food, they have to ignore all the suffering behind it.
I don’t think many people are bothered by cheese making videos, the basic gist is dumping enzymes into milk to separate the water from the fat, then the fatty components are sometimes aged to develop flavor. The enzymes are produced by bacteria these days, so it’s not like it involves a gory butchering step.
I’m talking about forcibly impregnating (i.e. raping) the cow, which is required to keep her pregnant so that she keeps producing milk. And then taking her calf away from her when they’re born.
Highlighting contradictions in people’s beliefs is good, actually. If they choose to be willfully ignorant of cruelty while reaping the benefits, then they’re not going to face that contradiction from you asking nicely while carefully avoiding any implication that they might be doing something wrong. Rather, it’s the opposite - you want to make it as difficult as possible for them to ignore what they’re doing. But of course, since they are trying to remain ignorant, it can be expected that they will react with hostility when you call attention to it, no matter how nice and polite you are about it. The only way to avoid provoking such a response is by allowing them to keep the cruelty out of sight and out of mind, in which case they will have little motivation to go vegan and you’ve rendered yourself useless.
People who have neither been convinced nor convinced others of veganism love to offer their perspective on how we can be more convincing which invariably seems to consist of defanging our criticism and going out of our way to avoid making people to confront the cruel realities caused by their actions.
Isn’t “I’m for the intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty” just a consequence of “I saw the videos you refuse to watch”, hence similarly alienating and holier than thou?
Maybe even more so. “I can’t continue because I saw a video” could be an unreflected emotional statement, whereas yours sounds like a moral argument.
Or maybe getting people uncomfortable and forced to think about it, and actively face the dissonance is effective. Maybe they get mad and confrontational, but then you have to ask why.
Why are you doing something whose moral implications are making you uncomfortable?
Same thing goes for shit like buying stuff made by people in horrible working conditions. Maybe we shouldn’t feel as if we are entitled to being comfortable all the time, especially when we do so at the expense of others. What if it was you in the place of the worker or animal? Are you okay with continuing on like this?
And it makes people uncomfortable because it makes them see themselves as a bad person. But hey, maybe you should feel uncomfortable if you are doing something you yourself consider bad.
I mean vegans are welcome to be vegan. If you want you can mention these things if you think they might matter to someone but in the end what is important to a vegan isn’t going to be important to other people and that’s fine. In the end suffering is life and we all are made to suffer so that someone else can exploit us. The only difference with meat is that it’s nutritious and something our body makes good use of. Humans on the other hand are exploited so that the privileged can continue to be privileged.
I feel like that sign is a bit alienating, which is unfortunate because it perpetuates the idea that vegans are holier than thou. As a person that (i think) understands the basic reasoning behind veganism (intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty?) i wish that more people would consider it. Hey, maybe that should be a sign
People have been saying that for decades. It doesn’t work. I never understood the concept of “protests shouldn’t make me feel uncomfortable or inconvenience me.” That kind of undercuts the purpose of a protest and trying to spread a message. If you make it so it’s easy to ignore, it doesn’t work. Without fail there’s always the “ugh, someone who tries to make me feel bad about torturing and killing animals is simply not going to convince me to do otherwise.” It’s such a shitty excuse.
Are you aware of the backfire effect? https://effectiviology.com/backfire-effect-facts-dont-change-minds/
I’m generally not confrontational and honestly usually tell people to try their best, but I get tired of people coming to a vegan community and being assholes.
You are failing then. Because most people are barely getting by and having holier than thou people trying to belittle them just means they are going to view the movement as a bunch of self righteous tools.
Yeah, I can see how being an unrepentant dildo is really winning people over to the cause!
This is something that I often think about in connection with veganism.
I can sit down and watch a video about how vegetables are produced. It might be boring, but I could watch it.
Most carnists, on the other hand, can’t sit and watch how hamburger, sausage, cheese, etc. is produced. For them to enjoy that food, they have to ignore all the suffering behind it.
I don’t think many people are bothered by cheese making videos, the basic gist is dumping enzymes into milk to separate the water from the fat, then the fatty components are sometimes aged to develop flavor. The enzymes are produced by bacteria these days, so it’s not like it involves a gory butchering step.
I’m talking about forcibly impregnating (i.e. raping) the cow, which is required to keep her pregnant so that she keeps producing milk. And then taking her calf away from her when they’re born.
Highlighting contradictions in people’s beliefs is good, actually. If they choose to be willfully ignorant of cruelty while reaping the benefits, then they’re not going to face that contradiction from you asking nicely while carefully avoiding any implication that they might be doing something wrong. Rather, it’s the opposite - you want to make it as difficult as possible for them to ignore what they’re doing. But of course, since they are trying to remain ignorant, it can be expected that they will react with hostility when you call attention to it, no matter how nice and polite you are about it. The only way to avoid provoking such a response is by allowing them to keep the cruelty out of sight and out of mind, in which case they will have little motivation to go vegan and you’ve rendered yourself useless.
People who have neither been convinced nor convinced others of veganism love to offer their perspective on how we can be more convincing which invariably seems to consist of defanging our criticism and going out of our way to avoid making people to confront the cruel realities caused by their actions.
Isn’t “I’m for the intentional non-participation in animal exploitation and cruelty” just a consequence of “I saw the videos you refuse to watch”, hence similarly alienating and holier than thou?
Maybe even more so. “I can’t continue because I saw a video” could be an unreflected emotional statement, whereas yours sounds like a moral argument.
Or maybe getting people uncomfortable and forced to think about it, and actively face the dissonance is effective. Maybe they get mad and confrontational, but then you have to ask why.
Why are you doing something whose moral implications are making you uncomfortable?
Same thing goes for shit like buying stuff made by people in horrible working conditions. Maybe we shouldn’t feel as if we are entitled to being comfortable all the time, especially when we do so at the expense of others. What if it was you in the place of the worker or animal? Are you okay with continuing on like this?
And it makes people uncomfortable because it makes them see themselves as a bad person. But hey, maybe you should feel uncomfortable if you are doing something you yourself consider bad.
I mean vegans are welcome to be vegan. If you want you can mention these things if you think they might matter to someone but in the end what is important to a vegan isn’t going to be important to other people and that’s fine. In the end suffering is life and we all are made to suffer so that someone else can exploit us. The only difference with meat is that it’s nutritious and something our body makes good use of. Humans on the other hand are exploited so that the privileged can continue to be privileged.