• Foni@lemm.ee
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    10 days ago

    Yesterday I read on mastodon that leaving Twitter to go to Bluesky is like quitting smoking to start vaping. Changing a centralized place that lives off your data for another one. Right now Bluesky does not have hate speech like Twitter just because it does not suit the current accounts of its shareholders

    • Dasnap@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      I think we just need to adopt the 2000s mindset again of dropping a platform when it gets shit. No one gave a fuck about the loss of Digg and Myspace.

    • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      Switching to vaping is less bad, and for me, it lead to me quitting all together. So to me, this is still a small win, and I like to celebrate small wins these days.

      • Spookyghost@sh.itjust.works
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        9 days ago

        I would say quitting twitter to join bluesky is more like quitting menthols to smoke regular cigarettes, and switching to a decentralized platform would be more analogous to a switch to vaping. Quitting social media entirely would equate better to ‘quitting smoking’ in my mind, as i dont think any platform is mentally healthful (yes i am fully aware of the hypocrisy of posting this comment as a lemmy user).

        • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          I would say quitting twitter to join bluesky is more like quitting menthols PCP to smoke regular cigarettes

          Fixed that for you.


          For those who are unfamiliar,

          PCP may cause hallucinations, distorted perceptions of sounds, and violent behavior.

        • ripcord@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          Since Twitter is currently really really toxic, dangerous, and run by a maniac; and Bluesky currently is not (it’s actually been amazingly non-toxic)…I strongly disagree.

          Even shittier anaology, but it’s more like moving from a house that has an active gas leak to a house that has gas pipes in the house. Has potential for leaks, but there aren’t any right now. And it currently has working gas leak detectors.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        10 days ago

        Ok, if it’s good for you I’m glad, maybe over time it will happen to you like vaping and you can completely switch to decentralized networks

        • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          You misunderstand. I’m not using any centralized social media. Lemmy is my one and only. I’m saying It’s worth celebrating the small wins and encouraging companies to continue moving to models like this. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good.

    • garretble@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      I don’t know if hate speech will be able to flourish on Bluesky like on twitter simply because of the moderation tools.

      There’s already a giant blocklist of maga idiots who have tried to move over, and if you follow that list you’ll never see their posts. And the unwritten rule of the place is to block anyone who is trying to start stuff or that you simply don’t like. On twitter that felt taboo for some reason, but on Bluesky that’s normal - as it should be, really.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        10 days ago

        I left Twitter years ago, but I think you could also block whoever you want, whether people do it more or less is independent of the site, the moderation tools are the same. 3

        What’s more, I am 100% sure that if in a few years Bluesky considers it economically beneficial for its shareholders that these tools “have occasional failures” this will happen without a doubt. This is something that if happens in Mastodon, changing the node you are done

        • JaymesRS@literature.cafe
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          10 days ago

          Bluesky also lets you unpin your quotes from others posts so no quote dunking and they have a nuclear block. If you’re blocked, you can’t see their posts anywhere in quotes or otherwise (excepting screenshots) and that interaction is broken completely even to third parties that may have neither blocked.

        • garretble@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          Twitter didn’t have block lists. You could block people individually, but not as a group.

          • Foni@lemm.ee
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            10 days ago

            Are these details really that important? Is it really that difficult to manually block 50-100 users? I don’t know, everything you are telling me are, at best, marginal improvements that do not justify selling all your personal data to a private company seeking profit from those data/contributions.

            CC @JaymesRS@literature.cafe

            • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              9 days ago

              It is literally night and day for queer people. Large accounts can’t post about queer subjects on Twitter without harassment anymore due to how the algorithm works, but if you subscribe to a couple of block lists on Bluesky that is GONE. You might run into the odd freak, but community run block lists will keep the tide at bay.

              When Mastodon takes user safety practices as seriously as Bluesky does I’ll consider switching.

              • Foni@lemm.ee
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                9 days ago

                Ok. You are in a situation of harassment and you believe that giving your data and delegating your security to a private company that responds to economic interests is a viable long-term solution.

                There are things that one cannot argue against

                • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  9 days ago

                  I’m not talking about targeted harassment specifically, I mean dozens of accounts leaving bigoted remarks on any post about queer subjects that gets traction (more than a few thousand likes). Melon certainly made the problem worse on Twitter, but there’s a reason prior to that they had an entire department dedicated to dealing with that shit: plenty of people see no problem with it, and it makes social media a nightmare for queer people.

                  If you don’t have a strong trust and safety team, then you need blocking tools that do the heavy lifting. And having to block 50k bigots manually is why I left Twitter. As long as Mastodon doesn’t have anything that can compete with block lists, it’s going to struggle to attract people who need those features.

            • garretble@lemmy.world
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              10 days ago

              All I’m saying is that the moderation tools are NOT the same.

              Manually blocking hundreds of people (where those people can still see your posts [how twitter does it]) instead of subscribing to one list isn’t the same, and being able to remove your quoted posts from some troll is not the same.

              There is an argument to be had about who funding the app and what that means, but there’s no denying that Bluesky’s moderation tools from the user level are streets ahead of anything twitter has ever done.

              • Foni@lemm.ee
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                9 days ago

                Ok, I haven’t denied that, the tools are different (I don’t even know Twitter’s tools very well), I debate whether that is worth enough to accept that it is centralized. If over time they consider that something else is more profitable, they will change the moderation tools, have no doubt.

      • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        If they’re still allowed on the platform to speak their mind amongst their ilk, doesn’t that just create an echo chamber of idiots? Assuming they stay instead of leaving after their fe-fes get hurt, of course.

        • croaker@lemmy.zip
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          9 days ago

          There will always be echo chambers of idiots. Twitter is more or less that already.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        10 days ago

        It has a single owner who makes the decisions and makes profitable the contributions of the users. It is a social media model that has been over for me for some time now, if they are open the better for them, I am not going to join anyway.

      • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 days ago

        Things never change, companies never break promises, shareholders never hold power over decision, people can not be bought

        Those would all have to be true in order for anyone to have a reason to put trust into Bluesky.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        10 days ago

        Ok, if for you the API is the most important thing, go ahead, I’m worried about more companies doing “things” with my data, everyone has their priorities.

        P.S. Unlike in BlueSky in Mastodon you can be 100% sure that the API will never be closed, in Bluesky it will depend on variable business interests

        • lepinkainen@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          Mastodon has protocol level issues that prevent it from being fully mainstream though.

          As long as people move out of Twitter, I count it as a win. Especially when we get official government stuff out of there - which won’t happen for the US, but the rest of us have a chance

          • Foni@lemm.ee
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            9 days ago

            I will count it as a victory when my government’s communication channels with me are not private property. A government-owned Mastodon server for official accounts would be logical (the EU already has it even though it barely uses it)

    • Iapar@feddit.org
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      9 days ago

      How is mastodon not just a bunch of centralized platforms?

      Sure the servers communicate with each other but the content is still just on one of them. Goes the server, so goes the content.

      Or am I mistaking?

      If it is like I say I feel it is more trading Hitler in for, potentially, a bunch of smaller Hitlers.

      • Lanthanae@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        a bunch of centralized platforms?

        This is what decentralized means. If your home instance goes to shit, you can just move your account to another one.

        • Iapar@feddit.org
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          8 days ago

          But you can’t really? If I remember correctly you still lose all the posts, followers and pretty much everything that you would expect to keep.

          Technically you keep your account but let’s be honest, you don’t in the sense people want.

          Maybe my knowledge is dated but that is what I recall about moving accounts.

      • Patch@feddit.uk
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        9 days ago

        If something has hundreds of “centralised” platforms owned and run by a diversity of different people and spread all over the world geographically, then that’s “decentralised”.

        I can’t really think of another way in which something could be decentralised.

        With ActivityPub, there’s nothing stopping you hosting a server literally just for yourself. It wouldn’t get much more decentralised than that.

        • Iapar@feddit.org
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          8 days ago

          I think the question arose from a scenario I was imaging in which a instance goes down and all or some of the content is lost.

          Decentralization, I thought would be if all the content gets posted to one instance and then every other instance is just a mirror of that one. In other words, every Lemmy instance has all the content all the time.

      • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        IIRC the content is on multiple. If there’s a single user on lemmy.world subscribing to content from somewhere.else’s foo community, then foo will be synced to lemmy.world and if somewhere.else is taken down it will remain on lemmy.world.

        But someone correct me if I’m wrong.

        Also, it isn’t just about servers going offline. If a single server does something bad, you can just switch to a different one and enjoy the same content you’ve been seeing.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        Well, I am not a systems engineer to answer your question, in any case smaller Hitlers equals Hitlers with less power. Dividing power is not the definitive solution to authoritarianism, but it usually helps a lot, especially if the agents are also competitive. “If you are too Hitler, I’ll go to this other server that is a little less so” is a valid incentive to avoid the Hitlerization of the admins.

        I don’t think I’ve ever used the name Hitler so much.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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      9 days ago

      Not a great analogy considering Vaping is infinitely healtheri than Smoking, but… yeah… they need to go to Mastodon.

      • Foni@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        I’m not going to discuss it with you, because I’m not a doctor nor is it the issue, but the health authorities (at least the European ones) do not agree with your statement.

      • TORFdot0@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Not really. You can host your own data but you still rely on Bluesky’s services to access it. And there is no realistic way to migrate your content or audience to another platform outside their control

          • TORFdot0@lemmy.world
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            9 days ago

            So ATProto that bluesky is built on has 3 core aspects. PDS’s (personal data server, stores your account content and data), Relays (transmits your actions such as likes, favorites, replies etc), and Appviews (basically the front end that you use to convert the data to a human readable front end like the bluesky app)

            PDS’s are allowed to be hosted by others right now but Relays are not. So even if you host your own PDS on the bluesky network, you rely on the bluesky controlled relay to be able to interact with the network.

            In theory there is a future where other people can host relays on the network but it’s not that way right now and is likely going to be too cost prohibiting for the people hosting to ever be realistic.

  • variants@possumpat.io
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    10 days ago

    I was just reading up on bluesky yesterday and you can self host and also have a bridge to link with the fediverse so maybe there is some hope to communicate

    • TORFdot0@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      The bridges are singular points of failure. If the bridge you use goes down you lose all your audience that was on that bridge. It’s better than nothing however. I will consider normies using threads and Bluesky a win as much as I can but it’d be so more ideal if we just all were on open and truly federated protocols instead of relying on half measures

      • variants@possumpat.io
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        9 days ago

        Yeah I’ve been trying to convince an acquaintance to use mastodon instead of Twitter for a while then yesterday he mentioned he created a bluesky account and I had to look it up, not great but better I guess

  • Maxnmy's@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    It’s a start. At least ordinary people are leaving Twitter for another site in some capacity.

    • Telorand@reddthat.com
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      10 days ago

      Hardly. The Fediverse spans multiple apps and services, and it existed before Elon bought Twitter and it will continue existing regardless of what the billionaires do, because it’s not run by just one person.

      The whole point is decentralization, not growth, so unless the billionaires can take out every server hosting an instance, the Fediverse isn’t going anywhere.

      • Tyfud@lemmy.world
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        10 days ago

        This.

        Back in the day this is how the internet worked. Every forum host was just some guy or girl hosting a platform so they coukd build a community with the people and hobbies they love.

        We need to go back closer to that world. The fediverse bridges the gap between the centralized experience, and decentralized management.

        Optimistically, it’s the best of both worlds.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
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          10 days ago

          I know I can’t ever go back. I donate to my instance, and I actually feel good about it, because I know it’s not going into the pocket of some faceless corporation who’s beholden to its shareholders instead of its customers.

        • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          I was gonna say. It’s this exactly. Plus a nice feature of Fediverse stuff is that it can scale down to hobby levels if needed. Venture funded commercial services abhor this and will compromise all kinds of things (e.g. morals, ethics) to keep going at whatever scale they’re at.

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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      10 days ago

      I don’t think it’s the worst outcome or the Fediverse needing to be written off because of this. At least for now BridgyFed is a thing, and it’s not like we have to capture every refugee, Mastodon has thriving and tight-knit communities.

    • Patch@feddit.uk
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      9 days ago

      Considering the fediverse microblogging scene includes Threads, which claims to have hundreds of millions of active users, I’d say its death is greatly exaggerated.

      Yes, I know a lot of Mastodon servers refuse to federate with Threads, and yes I know their active user figures are likely very different from what they claim. But at the end of the day, it’s an ActivityPub microblogging platform with a considerable userbase and a very rich corporate backer.

    • NeoToasty@kbin.melroy.org
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      10 days ago

      The fediverse is considered ‘over’ when parasitic leeches like Musk and Spez come knocking on Lemmy’s and BlueSky’s doors like “we want growth…please sell to us”.