Ah, that’s a good point. I’ve met far too many Marxists who seem to only care if something directly builds socialism in a nation, not just improving material conditions under capitalism. Maybe this is a hot take, I don’t know, but I don’t really care what system people live under as long as their lives improve. I am a socialist because any improvements under capitalism are always temporary and minor and socialism is the only way to ensure people’s lives improve permanently.
For sure, I definitely agree about just wanting a system that works. I am a socialist because it is the only path forward to actually improve society and we know this through applying Marxism, and frankly if that isn’t the perspective you are coming from that will inevitably lead to dogmatism.
I have heard heard critiques from anarchists and Maoists along the lines of “you can’t support something just because ‘it works’, it has to build socialism/erase hierarchies etc.” which is both such a wild thing to say but also I agree with the kernel of truth in there. Like, yes just because something works for over the short term does not mean it will work long term and socialism is necessary to guarantee the reproduction of an equitable, just society. However, it is incredible to be so dismissive of projects that demonstrably improve the lives of hundreds of millions of people when we already know building socialism is going to be a long and difficult process filled with errors anyway. So we should dismiss successes in improving peoples lives because its not the “right way”? There is an incredible burden of proof IMO to say that such projects are ultimately harmful and frankly I have never seen even close to sufficient evidence presented to support these claims.
It’s also incredibly revealing of the class character within global capitalism of the people who espouse these critiques. You are letting us all know that you are in a position where you are safe enough to wait for the “proper” socialist project to come along, but do you think colonized/imperialized peoples in West Africa or Pakistan have that luxury?
Yeah, that critique really comes across as naive when people have said similar things to me. Maoists in particular seem to be convinced that if they just proselytized enough, everyone in a nation would become diehard Marxists, but they don’t seem to realise that the masses align with Marxism not out of some noble sense of honour or duty, but just because it aligns with their material interests. This isn’t to disparage people or to accuse them of being bad people or anything, just that most people would want to make sure their families and friends are safe and leading good lives, and won’t sacrifice everything for some ideological cause, no matter how much a Maoist group tries to convince them that they need to go and hide out in a compound in the woods to wage PPW.
Ah, that’s a good point. I’ve met far too many Marxists who seem to only care if something directly builds socialism in a nation, not just improving material conditions under capitalism. Maybe this is a hot take, I don’t know, but I don’t really care what system people live under as long as their lives improve. I am a socialist because any improvements under capitalism are always temporary and minor and socialism is the only way to ensure people’s lives improve permanently.
For sure, I definitely agree about just wanting a system that works. I am a socialist because it is the only path forward to actually improve society and we know this through applying Marxism, and frankly if that isn’t the perspective you are coming from that will inevitably lead to dogmatism.
I have heard heard critiques from anarchists and Maoists along the lines of “you can’t support something just because ‘it works’, it has to build socialism/erase hierarchies etc.” which is both such a wild thing to say but also I agree with the kernel of truth in there. Like, yes just because something works for over the short term does not mean it will work long term and socialism is necessary to guarantee the reproduction of an equitable, just society. However, it is incredible to be so dismissive of projects that demonstrably improve the lives of hundreds of millions of people when we already know building socialism is going to be a long and difficult process filled with errors anyway. So we should dismiss successes in improving peoples lives because its not the “right way”? There is an incredible burden of proof IMO to say that such projects are ultimately harmful and frankly I have never seen even close to sufficient evidence presented to support these claims.
It’s also incredibly revealing of the class character within global capitalism of the people who espouse these critiques. You are letting us all know that you are in a position where you are safe enough to wait for the “proper” socialist project to come along, but do you think colonized/imperialized peoples in West Africa or Pakistan have that luxury?
Yeah, that critique really comes across as naive when people have said similar things to me. Maoists in particular seem to be convinced that if they just proselytized enough, everyone in a nation would become diehard Marxists, but they don’t seem to realise that the masses align with Marxism not out of some noble sense of honour or duty, but just because it aligns with their material interests. This isn’t to disparage people or to accuse them of being bad people or anything, just that most people would want to make sure their families and friends are safe and leading good lives, and won’t sacrifice everything for some ideological cause, no matter how much a Maoist group tries to convince them that they need to go and hide out in a compound in the woods to wage PPW.
Exactly, viewing it any other way feels like boutique ideology. We should be Marxist out of necessity not identity.