- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- world@lemmy.world
- europe@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- world@lemmy.world
- europe@lemmy.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/44521474
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So many removed comments…
This community is overmoderated, they frequently remove slightly offtopic comments. You can see this in the modlog.
But in this case there were some really extreme comments calling for violence.
I will report your comment because it’s also noise, and they will remove it I’m sure.
Now I won’t do it. 🐧
I went and double checked community info, yet I can’t understand why mine was removed. Probably some German moderator seeing antisemitic content everywhere 🤷♂️
Fwiw, yours was the one I was least sure about removing. You’re right, there are a lot of clearly civilian victims. The way you worded it seemed a bit too inviting for another rage thread though.
My comment was simply pointing out how Germany’s been involved in genocide at least twice in modern history.
I’d appreciate if someone would challenge me with a sound argument rather than censoring me.
Your comment was literally just “What is it with Germans and genocide?” Besides the one interpretation you suggest, there are a lot of other possibilities.
In any case, if a thread had started from your comment, do you think it could have been a productive one?
Hi, ok, while I disagree, thanks for letting me know. Perhaps we need some rage to end the horrors going on in Middle east…
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Never again*
What is the excuse for Germany? The US won’t, but can blame AIPAC for holding them hostage. Is there something similar going on there or is it some remnant of guilt from the Holocaust that compels them to assist Israel after all they’ve done?
It is partly guilt from the Holocaust, as in Germany is a big part of the reason Israel exists. So this entire Israel antisemitism plays very different in Germany. Also Scholz Ukraine response was weak and he got a lot of bad press for it, so he tried to go hard pro Israel. At the same time new export permits have not been issued for months, as there is a refusal to deliver any weapons, which could be used for war crimes, while being the largest donor to Palestine.
So a weird situation. The US going hard on Israel would help a lot though, to clean that up.
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Yes and no. Germany did not give citizenship to any Holocaust surviver, but it did restore citizenship to former German citizens pretty much as soon as the allies took control and it ended up being part of the Basic Law in 1949 as well. Otherwise Jews were supposed to be treated as citizens of their respective countries. So Soviet Jews were supposed to be treated as aliens, since they were Soviet citizens.
They could have gone back to their country of origin and some did, but Israel seemed like a better option compared to destroyed Europe.
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It is also a veil for anti-muslim racism, painting antisemitism as “imported” by muslims (despite German Nazis being the main perpetrators of antisemiticm crime) and taking the support for Israel as “proof” of not being bigoted.
Bonus points for using it to attacked progressive leftists and label them as antisemitic or terror supporters without having to engage with their demands. Also the fascists from the AfD and now the CDU are using it to push around the less fascist parties. They made “unconditionally supporting Israel” a ritual to prove how good or bad people they are. So when the AfD demands something in regards to Israel the SPD, Green and others try to top it. Can’t be that the Nazis are better friends of Israel than they are…
Meanwhile these things are used to repress non zionist Jews, who get disproportionately affected by getting their funding cut in culture and science, being excluded from events and even being attacked by “anti-antisemitism commisioners”, with accusations like being “allegedly jewish”. So Germany is back to classifying who are “good” and who are “bad” Jews.
It has nothing to do with logic or consistent values. It is a psychotic hysteria.
Thanks for the insight! I wish we could go harder on Israel here, but with our outrageously stupid ruling that corporations are people and money is speech, we now have all political parties beholden to large money influence because you can’t limit the freedom of speech… :(
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You’re getting downvoted because, for all their faults, the SPD is not run by fascists, quasi-fascists or “morally conflicted fascist-adjacent”. Neither has this ever been the case, nor is it going to happen in the foreseeable future. You’re not even in the ballpark of correct. Best case scenario is that you like to use the word “fascist” inflationarily. But even that wouldn’t be much better, as it effectively downplays the threat of and the horrors committed by actual fascists.
If you’d referred to the SPD as a party run by something like a cumulation of unimaginative, spineless and corrupt conservatives larping as social democrats, there’d be some grounds for discussion. This, instead, just makes you look like a troll.
To be honest, I’m only replying because I do not want your comment to stand on its own.
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“We have not decided not to supply weapons. We have supplied weapons and we will supply weapons,” Scholz told parliament
So the word “soon” that is in the title — did that come from Scholz or is it an invention on the part of Reuters?
Scholz used the word “soon”, but referring to deliveries in general, not weapons. Character-wise it should be noted that Scholz is an absolute master at not saying anything as well as saying things: If he did want to say something we wouldn’t be discussing whether he said something.
The government is overall quite keen on not explicitly saying that they’ve stopped weapons exports, for the time being. Reason being that they can’t legally issue export licenses. They can’t go to parliament, either, saying “erm we should scratch those paragraphs about not exporting weapons when there’s signs they could be used in a genocide”, that’s political suicide, and they can’t overrule the ministerial level (which makes those assessments) either, any such attempt would be a) illegal and b) leak instantly and thus be c) political suicide. Also I don’t think any of the ruling parties is in any way keen on exporting weapons to Israel. Stuff like air defence systems, sure, but even that must be weighed against Ukraine’s needs.
And they also can’t say that Israel is committing genocide. That wouldn’t be straight-out political suicide but it would force a discussion that noone wants to have, sitting things out, hoping that Israelis get their shit together and get rid of that Kahanite government, looks way more inviting.
I wonder if repeatedly attaking un peacekeepers will affect this?
Well, the announcement came as Israel made a new offensive into northern Gaza, ethnically cleansing the area and slaughtering more journalists and doctors and after UNFIL made statements about being threatened by the IDF.
So it seems to be about showing support for these actions in a plausibly deniability kind of way.
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Yeha and those pesky children and UNIFIL peacekeepers…
I see. So, when Palestinians kill 1200 people, Israel should just stand by and watch?
I don’t think so. Israel has every right to defend itself and only the Palestinians, Hamas, Hisbollah and Iran are to blame for using civilians as a shield.
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40.000 is a number which is made up by Hamas and co. There are no reliable numbers.
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The Palestinian terrorists still have many hostages in their hands. Why should Israel stop what they’re doing?
Point is: Hamas and co. don’t want to release them. They want the war to continue. And that’s what they get.
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Palestinians are to blame for beeing used as civillian shields? Are palestinians like some terrorists for you?
They voted Hamas into power.
And then hamas went into authorian mode and stopped the voting and rights like 15 years ago…
So its not actually that the palestinians are still supporting their stance.
So did the Israelis for Netanyahu
They did. And Israel did not attack on 07.10.2023 and killed 1200 civilians. It was Hamas. And now Hamas and their friends get what they deserve.
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I don’t understand how this isn’t an obvious problem with the argument that “they voted for Hamas.” If you paint all Palestinians with this brush, the exact same logic can be used to paint all Israeli as warmongering genocidal psychopaths. Or perhaps that conclusion is tacitly accepted by the people making the argument and therefore using the reverse as justification for their actions is kosher.
Most people in Gaza were not born yet when the last election was held. The median age of Gazans in 2020 was 18. Also, 1. was it a free and fair election? 2. was there good alternatives? 3. Does that mean the children deserve to die? 4. What do you think happens to the children thay grow up in a genocide? Do you think they a) become upstanding, healthy citizens? or b) become radicalized? Violence leads to more violence. Noone is born a terrorist, but Israels far right government’s genocide is creating them.
Well, maybe they should get rid of the terrorists then? The fact is, they happily support Hamas.
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If Israel is expecting Palestinians to get rid of Hamas, why aren’t they giving them the weapons necessary to do so? Arm the PLO and be done with it.
