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TIL about the term “Parent”.
OP, 2023.
Sidenote: if you’re pretending shit for internet points, at least try for 10 seconds to put yourself in the shoes of the person you’re pretending to be…
Give them a break, they haven’t slept in weeks/months/years
labor theory of value but it’s for kids: how hard you worked during sex = the value of the child
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Rothbard moment
Yes, I traded an iPod for them
Self reporting here.
Yeah, I can’t even begin to address how much is wrong with that.
I know, right? Why would you willingly keep a child? Just put it away or put it down.
Or put it on eBay
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Carry ons should be put in the overhead bin or tuck under your seat.
If you carry your baby onto the plane, be kind to your fellow passengers and put it in the bin.
and not on kbin
Okay, I’m gonna bite the bullet and say it. This is disheartening. I’m not one to clutch pearls, but come on. Would you say this about anyone else? Dogs? Cats? Anything at all? Do you understand how fucked up it is? I just don’t get it. It was the same in Reddit, and it’s fucking same in here. Why do you hate children? You don’t wanna have them, that’s fine. Why would you say these things?
Maybe you’re joking. Even after assuming that you are, this is in poor taste and a fucked up thing to say.
Maybe you’re joking
Gee, you think?
Finish that line, buddy.
I’m not your buddy, pal, and I don’t appreciate the accusation.
I’m not your pal, guy
Im not your guy, amigo
Yeah, I agree with you on that one.
U don’t hate children but what i hate is that one child with shitty parents will ruin the entire flight for everyone else.
It’s usually the air pressure causing the kid some pain from mild barotrauma / airplane ear. They can’t help it. No amount of good or bad parenting changes the pressure differential in the inner ear.
Do shitty parents and upset children exist? Absolutely.
Yet everyone seems to ignore that maybe, just maybe, that child is being “shitty” despite having good parents.
Maybe the kid has a medical issue causing pain and discomfort and there’s not a damn thing the parent can do except get on that flight to see a specialist.
Maybe she’s fleeing domestic violence and needs to get to family to safe.
Maybe the mother has postpartum depression and unfortunately cannot properly care for her child so she’s seeking help elsewhere.
Fuck maybe the kid has an undiagnosed brain tumour that’s going to kill them. I know people that happened to.
If you go around assuming everyone else who inconveniences you in the slightest is a shit person, you will be a shit person.
So get over yourself. You might have a slightly less comfortable flight while that poor parent might be going through the worst time in their life.
Of course these things do exist but most of the time(at least in my experience) the problems are shitty parents.
For example I had 2 kids crawling under my seat for the whole flight(takeoff and landing included) and the parents just watched something on the phone.
As a parent of two boys, i feel that much of the annoyance of no-children-having people is due to parents not putting boundaries for children in place.
Children scream because of attention. It means they are not getting it.
Start walking around with the kid to calm it down. Its your job as a parent. You cannot stay seated and act like “what are you gonna do? They are children ! They scream!”
No. You are a bad parent for letting them just scream.
Having said that, babies sometimes just scream without reason. Perhaps, and I mean this, if you have a baby that is prone to doing this, do not travel in confined spaces, or dine at restaurants until that phase of screaming is over.
You can train dogs and cats to be quiet and sit still. Not all of them will be happy doing it for a long plane ride, but you can do it. Babies on the other hand? Babies don’t give a fuck.
Hungry?
Scream.
Tired?
Scream.
Happy?
Scream.
Mad?
Scream
You can do everything right and the baby will still scream.
See, I have this speculation that early humans were fucking dumb, had no object permanence, couldn’t keep track of their kids, and generally pretended they didn’t exist unless they were being annoying. So their babies had to fucking scream as loud as a firetruck for their parents to not lose them.
That’s the other thing too. The sound of a crying baby will drive anyone who doesn’t have antisocial personality disorder or has been driven deaf by the wonders of childcare completely insane. Why? Because while the sheer volume of a baby’s scream might not be as loud as a barking dog on an objective decibel scale, but when it comes to perceptual decibel levels, babies are loud. Our hearing sensitivity varies based on pitch. The higher the pitch, the more sensitive our ears are. On top of that, our brains are hardwired to have a reaction to a screaming baby, which can manifest itself as irritation, annoyance, frustration, and other negative emotions, because our primitive monkey brains are screeching, “WHY WON’T YOU TAKE CARE OF BABY!?” but we can’t do anything because it’s not our baby.
That’s why people like to make jokes about dead babies, infant abuse, etc. Because babies are annoying as hell and literally everything they do is designed to make sure we know they’re there at all times.
Edit: AND ONE MORE THING, have you ever wondered how a parent can love their baby when it’s quiet but hate it when it’s awake? Yeah, that’s almost certainly a result of primitive humans trying to take advantage of the fact that the annoying poop demon was finally quiet and wasn’t ear-fucking their monkey brain into guilt-tripping them anymore, so that they could ditch their babies when they were sleeping. So you can probably thank the negligent, sociopathic protohumans for babies being annoying as shit.
To be honest you can train your baby to be quiet, it just takes like 12 years
Considering some babies i know, it’s still failure after 50+ years…
I love this theory that early (and current) humans were so incompetently stupid that we evolved to fucking scream all the time just so they don’t walk away and forget us.
Considering how many kids get left in locked cars in the summer, as well as no other species of animal has annoying ass babies I have to canonize this as the Truth.
Consider this as well: if you’re a primitive human and you have to take your baby somewhere, you’re going to be praying to whatever deity(s) you believe are watching over you that your baby understands the severity of the situation and doesn’t start screaming in the middle of the jungle. 'cause if it does, every predator in a 5 mile radius is going to hear your baby screaming and dinner bells will start going off in their heads. Our only major survival traits are our near-infinite stamina (if properly trained) and ability to magically fuse or deform useless objects into something useful. Additionally, the usefulness of both of those traits diminishes with the size of the group as a single human with a spear is far less likely to survive a tiger attack than two humans with spears. To put it another way, your baby will actively alert predators that you’re burdened with its existence and that you could be free food so that you get removed from the gene pool if you’re stupid or unlucky enough to travel alone.
Babies evolved to cry all the time because their parents had this habit of making the species that just looked at the baby in a weird way go extinct.
Would you say this about anyone else? Dogs? Cats? Anything at all?
What an odd comparison, given that pets are crated and put in (a warm/pressurized part of) the cargo bay. Is that better then hiding under a seat or the overhead bin? It seems about the same to me.
Maybe you’re joking. Even after assuming that you are, this is in poor taste and a fucked up thing to say.
Good. Making Anthony Jeselnik proud.
No i wouldn’t think this about dogs and cats etc. As those are not annoying 24/7. Of course there are dogs and cats that are but the majority is well behaved… unlike Babies
How anybody flies without noise-canceling headphones these days is beyond me.
I’m gonna be unapologetically that person one day. Get into a tube full of stinky humans and complain that babies exist in the world. People need to get over themselves.
Especially now that Noise Cancelling headphones are everywhere and work as good as they do. Since I’ve got my Sony headphones a crying infant becomes only a really minor inconvenience
While this reads like a Sony advert, I have to agree.
Children don’t only make noise. So noise canceling headphones only handle one possibility of the outcomes.
Tbf I don’t think babies are the worst. They cry, but that’s it. The kids that can talk walk and kick you are. And also let’s always remember that the major anger is not about the kids but the lazy parents that think everyone else should suffer so that THEY don’t have to deal with it.
Well, someone not watching their kid while the kid harasses or kicks you is a different story.
99% of the time that’s the case
Maybe it’s different in the USA, but I’ve travelled a lot and don’t think I ever remember a long haul flight without multiple babies and young children. It’s just a fact of travelling.
I recently did a 16hr flight solo and the other 3 seats in my row of 4 were parents and a toddler.
That’s just part of flying and you should plan for it (noise cancelling headphones, sleeping tablets, ear plugs).
If pets can travel in the cargo hold hopped up on benzos and ketamine, why can’t babies? Or me?
This is one of those things I see people complain about everyone complaining. Like vegans or CrossFit people. I’ve met far more people complaining about complaints than actual incidents.
Most of us get it. It’s kids. I’ve seen obviously not emotional support animals brought in by asshats. Kids aren’t my concern.
I had a man in his 60s tell me “if you board a flight without noise canceling headphones in 2023, that’s on you.”
We were flying to Italy (from US) with our 5 month old to visit my Aunt one last time before she passed away a few months later. Baby cried here and there for a total of maybe 1.5 out of the 9 hours. We felt so guilty but people were incredibly nice at the end when we apologized for disturbing their flight.
She’s a pretty good flyer overall but will throw her occasional 5 minute fits. I think about that man’s joke after working our asses off to calm her down.
Being angry at babies is what pathetic people do.they cant do much about their situation.
Its on their parents but… as you say… sometimes you just gotta fly. With the kid.
Yeah, noise cancelling headphones delete the mechanical noise and the standard level of chatter. Screaming is left in that void to come right on through and into your brain. They don’t block angry baby screams, they make them stand out.
When you realize most of those judgemental passengers were those kids like 20 years ago (2003’sh). 😀
As long as there is effort from the parent’s side to help the baby adjust, then people should be more human and acknowledge this is how humans grow up!
No-one’s claiming that it’s unreasonable or unprecedented for kids to be noisy and disruptive due to (among other reasons) still-developing brains that can’t fully process social norms and responsibilities.
We’re saying that, given that everyone knows that fact, the parents who choose to bring poorly-behaved kids onto planes are being selfish and irresponsible.
The kids are mostly blameless in these situations - they’re still developing, they can’t (depending on age) be expected to be fully responsible. It’s the parents that are selfish shitbags.
I didn’t chose to be born nor did I chose to be a child. I have the right to be irritated though by other people’s mistakes. It is completely OK not to make humans. We are not just mindless beasts only good for reproduction. People have a right to find people’s poor life choices distasteful, lie smoking cigarettes and doing drugs.
Anybody that complains about children and babies can go fuck themselves. You shouldn’t have to feel guilty for being a parent.
Yes you should. That child is going to face pretty bad economic and climate times. The likelihood of them dying from climate change or starvation is going up. And because of covid damaging immune systems, dying of the increasing numbers of illnesses running around. Not to mention the return of once defeated diseases due to anti-vax movements.
They chose to bring a kid into a world of misery because they were needy, or they thought it would be cute, or whatever. Selfish reasons. That’s who should go f themselves.
You should try getting out of the house.
You’re assumption that I don’t is in error.
The likelihood of each of us dying goes up every day we wake up. So by your logic we might as well just all kill ourselves now and get it over with? As much as I agree with your list of real concerns, your suggesting we should put an end to human kind altogether because life is getting harder each generation?
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Whatever, man. You’re going to do or say whatever.
Hahaha bro. Go touch grass.
While we still can.
Yes, I should hole myself in my house because I could potentially get hit by a car tomorrow. That’s what your reasoning sounds like.
Look, yes, the world is grim and the climate is changing, but why shouldn’t I instill the harsh realities of this world in my children so that they can grow up and cope and deal with this stuff. This sort of stuff is part of upbringing that should be instilled in our children so that they don’t grow up and make those mistakes.
Even more importantly, we should all lead by example and show them, by example, by being more active in the causes we care about enough to pursue so that life is more meaningful than mere existence.
This is how I was raised, and that’s how I intend to raise my children instead of cowering away from it and choosing not to have children which seems like the easy way out and really, is pretty pathetic.
So yes, people can go fuck themselves if they can’t deal with crying children. :-)
Justify it however you want. You’re a terrible person who like hurting your child and annoying everyone. Got it.
Considering your cowardly outlook on life, your words don’t hold any weight.
Maintaining the status quo is what keeps humanity from progressing. Slavery was acceptable and still is in many places, except for where the status quo was challenged. Having kids should no longer be the status quo and it won’t be long until civil rights catch up to the abusive nature of being created without consent.
Except it’s a choice.
YES
I don’t think hours of noise canceling headphones are a realistic solution for everyone, like people with autism or sensitive ears.
What we should have is a “children’s section” in the back of the plane. If your party only contains adults, then you can only book in the adult section until it’s filled, and same with parties that have kids. Parents don’t want to disrupt everyone, but imagine this on a longer bus or train ride!
I DROVE across Canada rather than dare take a plane with a possibility of screaming and kicking children. Sensory issues are a bitch.
Sometimes plane travel can’t be helped, and little children can be loud and obnoxious. I feel for those around me, but as a parent we have to endure this far longer than anyone else. It’s not like we like the noise either.
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“Conflating the two is ableist and insulting.”
I think the auto-reply should be an audible sigh and a “just shut the fuck up”. But hey, you tell me how you thought this would go?
“Why won’t anyone think of the paaaaareeeents? Nobody suffers more than me from the problem that I created!”
So now I need to conform to some dead-end 20 something because they can’t be bothered to bring headphones on a plane?
Like I wasn’t an adult without kids at some point who had to fly with crying babies on board.
Not our fault you/she got creampied. They’re your responsibility.
True, and it’s my right to fly with them. I’m glad we’ve had this chat. I now feel a lot less pressure to please little dead-enders who just want silence. Life is noisy. I’m personally not in any rush for an eternity of silence, but you do you.
I’ve had to use canceling headphones for several hours a day for months due to asshole neighbours. Doing that provokes and exacerbates migraines. Using common sense and separating noise emitters from noise sufferers should always be the first step.
What’s up with that, anyway? Noise cancelling headphones always make my ears and head feel so weird. I usually get used to it after a while (lucky me), but it’s so strange at first.
My understanding is that it generates waves that cancel out the sound waves so your ear drums are actually receiving more sound pressure than without the noise canceling headphones even though you don’t hear the sound.
But if they cancel out, the pressure difference is lessened, hence less noise. .-.
oh my god it’s so relieving to hear that i’m not the only one
When I bring my whole family somewhere I almost always book the farthest back on the plane I can. There doesn’t have to be specific sections… just people with common courtesy.
but one thing I’m noticing as a common theme in these threads is that there’s an innate blame on the children/parents. Kids oftentimes CANNOT pop their ears due to how narrow their Eustachian tubes are. https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/flying-ears.html There can be cases where the baby’s ears actually tear if the Eustachian tubes are blocked due to a cold or something of that nature.
The better answer is to just educate them in a friendly manner. If you do it tactfully then maybe junior will simmer down and everyone can move on without this passive aggressiveness we see in the photo. Giving the kid a bottle (if they’re that young) is often all that needs to happen to work the tubes open a little bit to relieve the pain.
Now… if you’re a parent… and have a colicky little one… skip the plane if you can. You know your kid. If they’re not going to take to the plane well, then you’re just being a dick to everyone around you.
So in other words: putting a sick young child on a plane is a health and safety risk for the child
Anecdotally my spouse and I know this; our kids are just extremely energetic. We aren’t simply uneducated on how ears work, and getting unsolicited tips from childless people while already busy with our kids is just another stressor.
Call me a dick if you want, but sometimes flying noisily is the only practical option. No we’re not going to drive cross country to grandma’s funeral.
We aren’t simply uneducated on how ears work, and getting unsolicited tips from childless people while already busy with our kids is just another stressor.
Well… considering I have 2 kids. You can put your bullshit “tips from childless people” garbage argument away. The source of the information is irrelevant if the information is true regardless.
Regardless that doesn’t negate the overall “common courtesy” theme of my post.
I apologize if my reply came across as an attack against you personally. I thought you were suggesting that anyone reading your post (not just you) should go up to stressed out parents and explain how ears work.
While other parents do sometimes chime in with unsolicited tips during stressful situations, they seem to (usually) be more aware of whether or not their actual information is relevant, and not just a distraction.
Then maybe you shouldn’t go. It’s a funeral and they’re children. When my uncle died when I was young, my grandmother made me look at his dead body and it was terrible. I wish I had never gone to that fucking funeral. Nothing about it brought me any sort of closure and the only real memories I still have from going are purely negative.
Children have no place in funerals.
Ok, then replace “funeral” with any family function you need to attend. Should your kids miss school on Friday and Monday to drive to and from a weekend wedding?
Yes.
I don’t think you’ll find many parents willing to make that sacrifice for courtesy.
It’d be fun, though. Road trips were always more enjoyable than sitting on a fucking plane for hours when I was a kid.
It’s already parents vs childfree in this thread, and I have to admit it’s a bit entertaining, but do we really want to bring the fuckcars people into this as well?
Kids exist in the world. Get over it. You’re the adult in the situation.
You missed the point on purpose, right?
Yep, during booking they should only show the back rows available if you’re traveling with children of certain age. It should be simple, I think.
Yeah ok I’ll just fucking have my kids put down at the vet before I go on holiday! Get a fucking grip!
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Well good, I accepted that long before I ever had kids!
The only people I’m not happy to see are insufferable r/childfree redditors who hate on literal children. If you hate babies there is something wrong with your brain.
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Honestly? You should.
Thanks, Satan!
They should put soulless freaks like you down. Having empathy for literal babies is a basic requirement for a human being.
Right?
I just fly Delta cause parents can’t afford it 🤷 Problem solved.
I miss Delta. I always flew Delta, but my wife likes to be frugal.
yah please do no one wants your little shits around.
don’t go on holiday if you have cum pets. You chose that when you couldn’t keep it in your pants.
You think you’re more deserving of a holiday just because you’re shooting blanks?
i stay quiet and read my book and don’t annoy the entire plane/train/bus.
Do you want a medal?
You’re annoying the entirety of lemmy instead
I’m here on lemmy, and I think he right fine. Shit, I should buy him a beer. It’s the baby’s that annoy, aaaand their entitled parents.
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You are annoying the entire forum right now. You are outsourcing your shittiness online because you are deeply unwell and need an outlet
cum pets
Just because you’re so ugly nobody would ever reproduce with you doesn’t give you excuse to whine about children all the time. Go back to r/childfree you soulless redditor.
One kind of people makes humanity not go extinct in the near future.
humans are an overpopulated and invasive species, there are millions of human children waiting to be fostered
b-but muh genes
This ass taking weird selfies in his first class seat looks so entitled
not gonna lie that guy has an incredibly punchable face
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there are quite a few people that have faces that just have a “punch me” written on them. he is one. I am not a violent person
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I have a dysfunctional baby. We took an 8 month old on a plane to Japan because of a family tragedy and she freaking got excited when we hit turbulence and when we landed. Five other babies lost their shit but my kids all giggling.
Actually, she also lost her shit in a literal way, Jesus fucking Christ the amount of poop that came out after the pressure change or someone. Ain’t nobody talks about that but all babies shit their pants at landing— pretty sure.
Get her a dirt bike and a ramp. You may have a future stunt woman on your hands.
I’m gonna be that guy in about a week, kid is 6 months. Any seasoned parents got good tips? It’s not a long flight at least, only 2h.
Edit: Thank you all, I read every one of your replies. Flight goes at 6am, but we booked a night at the airport hotel so we just have to walk across the street. Baby will be in a carrier and get the bottle during takeoff/landing. Fingers crossed.
Since Roe v Wade has been overturned, I’m all out of ideas
I think most people will give you credit for trying. Parents get it, non-parents who are non-assholes will also have some level of tolerance as long as it looks like you’re doing your best to keep the child calm and quiet.
Shit happens. Kids are unpredictable.
You can also try a baby dose of benadryl to knock them out just before takeoff.
Googling your benadryl solution results in what I can only describe as the Internet desperately yelling at me to NOT DO THAT
The specific search terms being “benadryl to make baby sleep”, resulting in the Office of the Child Advocate Connecticut Child Fatality Review Panel’s writing in all-caps
“CAREGIVERS SHOULD NEVER USE BENADRYL OR OTHER ANTIHISTAMINES IN ORDER TO GET THEIR INFANTS TO BE QUIET OR TO SLEEP. ANTIHISTAMINES LIKE BENADRYL SHOULD ONLY BE USED WHEN PRESCRIBED BY A LICENSED MEDICAL PROVIDER.”
Not a seasoned parent but have been through this process. Try to get enough sleep yourself so you can give the necessary attention while traveling.
2 hours in the plane also means like another 3 hours in the car + airport queues. Don’t forget that bit.
Sleep deprivation is a great reason why parents are angry with kids and can’t focus even for a minute due to irritability.
The kids are the only ones on the plane who are going home with you
Child free by choice person here, though not the child hating kind.
At the end of the day, do your best. Your kid is all that matters. Focus on comfort, stuff to help with popped ears, and other soothing things that can help your baby sleep.
When we flew for the first time (also short flight, baby was ~11 months) we had her in a carrier (ergobaby) and she fell asleep. I don’t know if you planned on booking an extra seat or not, we didn’t since it was a very small plane and there were no 3 seats in a row and also we didn’t come by car (so bringing an extra maxi cosi would have been a nuicance). If you don’t, you get a kind of extra seat belt to attach to your seat belt so the baby sits on your lap. What surprised us is that they didn’t force us to take her out of the ergobaby but looked at us, basically saying “noiccce” with their eyes, and let us just sit like this. It was insanely more comfortable and actuallt more secure than with that seatseatbeltbelt consturction. I guess they realized this, I mean the baby is completely strapped to my body. Anyway, I was very grateful that it turned out there was no policy about having to use the seatseatbeltbelt and prohibiting the carrier. This way our baby was secure and slept for most of the flight (also on the way back. She slept 50/60 minutes one way and 60/60 the other.) The other obvious recommendation is breastfeed (/bottlefeed) on the lap during takeoff and landing.
Feed them on the way up and the way down. Sucking/drinking greatly helps with the air pressure changes. We did that and worked wonders. We would walk of and people would be surprised there were children were in the plane.
Assuming your partner is breast-feeding, pop that kid on a nipple. We flew several times with young kids and being able to suckle kept the little ones quiet for most flights.
Just keep loving them. Fuck everyone else. They’ll get over it.
Don’t give a shit what other people think. I went through puking etc. in transport and public places. Just focus on kid comfort and prepare yourself with bags, wet wipes and backup clothes.
Fly when your kid normally sleeps. Practice having them sleep on you. Motrin for kids.
2 hours, you’re good.
This thread is goddamned train wreck. If you need to fly with young children, buy a big bag of those el cheapo foam ear plugs and pass them out to whomever wants some.
I don’t have kids, and I have sensory issues that make baby crying noises physically painful, but I get it. Sometimes you need to take your tiny human places, and I just have to deal. It’s a part of life.
It’s unreasonable to expect parents to buy you earplugs. If you know you have sensory issues, you need to pack earplugs just in case. That is your responsibility.
Oh I travel with my own earplugs, but sometimes poeple forget. Nothing wrong with looking out for your fellow humans.
The packs of earplugs aren’t that expensive, and if you can’t get the kids to be reasonably well-behaved it’s your responsibility.
It’s not some random strangers job to take care of you.
Lol no.
Or a big bag to put the kids in and stuff em in the luggage compartment.
Ear plugs always fall out, don’t work properly and feel uncomfortable for me
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I remember the main complaint against me was trying to fall asleep on the floor during a flight to Japan.
The exception being when one of those kids is running around the plane spitting on people. Happened to me on a return trip from the Philippines. That was neat.
