Am I a dumbass or did I miss something? I could squint abd see it here or there, but having just hit credits I actually thought Celeste was gonna be More Trans than it was, Idk… The selfie bit at the bonfire is the only thing that sticks out in my mind atm.
Fwiw though I thought it was really pleasant, maybe you should =)
“When I wrote Celeste I sincerely still believed that I was cisgender, but I was nevertheless waist-deep in gender feelings (among other anxieties). When Madeline looks in the mirror and sees her other self; when she attempts to abandon her reflection, who then drags her down the mountain; when the two reconcile and merge to become stronger and more complete… that was all unknowingly written from a trans perspective.”
i personally think it’s more effective that way. there is a trans flag at the end as a little canon-confirmation which is nice. so madeline is trans in the text. but i prefer the beautifully crafted subtext arc over having text boxes where madeline like talks about trans stuff or whatever (although i totally understand wanting more overtly trans media, i think celeste stands on its own as almost perfect the way it is). i think the amount of trans love for the game affirms that it is effective allegory.
The fact that anyone still speaks about “queer rep” in terms of ‘canon’ really shows how far behind rep is. Not sending their best
I’m not exactly asking to be told HEY, THE CURTAINS ARE NOT JUST BLUE point blank, I mean if you’re a real dumbass like me the trans flag-coloured clouds spell it out plainly. It’s undeniably textual that Celeste is trans rep, that Madeline is A Gender®, but what exactly it has to say is so interprative that I wonder if it even has a deliberately intended message about the subject. The fact that the dev wasn’t even aware of being trans at the time makes me wonder further. I guess it doesn’t really need to have a “point”, but I guess I was expecting it to considering how hyped it is in this respect. Regardless though, the textual arc about overcoming anxiety and depression is flavoured really well by the trans subtext.
I’m not against heavily interprative stuff even though I’m really stupid, but I run into subjective issues I guess. This whole passage
When Madeline looks in the mirror and sees her other self; when she attempts to abandon her reflection, who then drags her down the mountain; when the two reconcile and merge to become stronger and more complete… that was all unknowingly written from a trans perspective."
from here took me a few tries to even understand ( ) and didn’t really resonate personally. I didn’t really note it the first time through because, Idk, that experience of denying yourself and having it set you back, not something I can say I’ve had. (I know, I’m so fucking lucky) It clearly hits home for a lot of people, I actually think my wife would really like/absolutely hate that read, but to me it was kind of like Oh, Okay, I get it now, in post.
The throughline to understanding everything I’m saying (aside from the fact that I’m fucking stupid) is that none of it is actual criticism. I don’t actually have any, really; I thought it was very pleasant, it is a nice arc, I like it and it’s cool that you can read it on multiple levels… but it was weird having all of this fly clear over my head, which I guess is the other edge of the “every trans gender is a lil different an experience” sword.
thank you for sharing these thoughts:) totally agree it’s a desert out there in terms of trans stories and a lot of them are just tragedies too, we need more radically hopeful/optimistic shit imo.
regarding the “deliberately intended message”
… personally for me when it comes to art, authorial intent is literally the last thing on the list of shit that matters about the work. I don’t really care what the intended message of anything is, what matters is what I and others get out of it. how it relates to me. I’m completely death of the author brained. that’s how I personally feel and I know other people can hold very different views when it comes to art which is also valid.
Yeah I should clarify, I don’t usually give a fuck what the author says, it’s more like “you can read amything into a text sure, but is there one that’s more supported by the text?” I guess. That’s probably still a little too literal, thanks to whoever invented Autism probably. Death of the author is always cool and funny.
I strain constantly to try to comprehend things and I’m really fucking stupid, so I’m basically the worst possible person to be dedicated to this sort of thing. But actually it’s not, I mean more representation in visual media is needed but I’ve got like 57 trans related novels, novellas, graphic novels and so on to read, on top of 36 already read and maybe like 100 more in my general tbr. My life’s work and I am shit at it.
I don’t relate to most media and I’m heavily autistic in I feel empathy completely different to the “norm” hence why I don’t seek stuff out… I already feel alienated because of this and part of why I feel broken compared to everyone else. (I can’t tell if it’s autism or trauma or both or other factors either)
Why I constantly remind people I’m from the void, because I don’t experience things the “intended” way the majority of the time and it’s been a source of conflict from various people over time.
That’s true ^^ stuff like that mirror quote above and such I don’t feel anything to a lot, I don’t experience emotions like most people typically would. Hence the alienation.
It’s definitely quite possible that I read too much into it. At the start of the game, I read that sign that says, “This memorial dedicated to those who perished on the climb” and it kinda hits cause I draw parallels to all the girls we lost along the way. Also, I see the mountain as an allegory to the difficult mountain we all climb that is our transitions.
Either way, my puppy wife dissuades me every time I want to play it. Probably cause she’d want to watch and she’s not very capable of dealing with such emotions.
the memorial makes me cry:( yeah i also read the game as broadly an allegory for transitioning and overcoming all the hurdles that come with it, persevering despite it all.
Y’know, I don’t think we’re ever truly done transitioning. We really just reach a point where we are happy with ourselves. When we can look in the mirror in the morning and see nothing special.
I agree with you I remember seeing the dev of Celeste transitioning some time after and I thought “yeah that makes sense.” I dunno why, Celeste is just a trans game
more of same
Fwiw though I thought it was really pleasant, maybe you should =)
https://www.mattmakesgames.com/articles/is_maddy_trans/index.html the answer is that it was a subconciously trans story
spoiler cw: gender stuff
“When I wrote Celeste I sincerely still believed that I was cisgender, but I was nevertheless waist-deep in gender feelings (among other anxieties). When Madeline looks in the mirror and sees her other self; when she attempts to abandon her reflection, who then drags her down the mountain; when the two reconcile and merge to become stronger and more complete… that was all unknowingly written from a trans perspective.”
I know, it’s not exactly subtle, quoting self downthread
Also I think the word is “subtextual”. But for how much I hear its praises sung I was expecting any amount of text I guess…
i personally think it’s more effective that way. there is a trans flag at the end as a little canon-confirmation which is nice. so madeline is trans in the text. but i prefer the beautifully crafted subtext arc over having text boxes where madeline like talks about trans stuff or whatever (although i totally understand wanting more overtly trans media, i think celeste stands on its own as almost perfect the way it is). i think the amount of trans love for the game affirms that it is effective allegory.
stupid hateful bullshit
The fact that anyone still speaks about “queer rep” in terms of ‘canon’ really shows how far behind rep is. Not sending their best
I’m not exactly asking to be told HEY, THE CURTAINS ARE NOT JUST BLUE point blank, I mean if you’re a real dumbass like me the trans flag-coloured clouds spell it out plainly. It’s undeniably textual that Celeste is trans rep, that Madeline is A Gender®, but what exactly it has to say is so interprative that I wonder if it even has a deliberately intended message about the subject. The fact that the dev wasn’t even aware of being trans at the time makes me wonder further. I guess it doesn’t really need to have a “point”, but I guess I was expecting it to considering how hyped it is in this respect. Regardless though, the textual arc about overcoming anxiety and depression is flavoured really well by the trans subtext.
I’m not against heavily interprative stuff even though I’m really stupid, but I run into subjective issues I guess. This whole passage
from here took me a few tries to even understand (
) and didn’t really resonate personally. I didn’t really note it the first time through because, Idk, that experience of denying yourself and having it set you back, not something I can say I’ve had. (I know, I’m so fucking lucky) It clearly hits home for a lot of people, I actually think my wife would really like/absolutely hate that read, but to me it was kind of like Oh, Okay, I get it now, in post.
The throughline to understanding everything I’m saying (aside from the fact that I’m fucking stupid) is that none of it is actual criticism. I don’t actually have any, really; I thought it was very pleasant, it is a nice arc, I like it and it’s cool that you can read it on multiple levels… but it was weird having all of this fly clear over my head, which I guess is the other edge of the “every trans gender is a lil different an experience” sword.
thank you for sharing these thoughts:) totally agree it’s a desert out there in terms of trans stories and a lot of them are just tragedies too, we need more radically hopeful/optimistic shit imo.
regarding the “deliberately intended message” … personally for me when it comes to art, authorial intent is literally the last thing on the list of shit that matters about the work. I don’t really care what the intended message of anything is, what matters is what I and others get out of it. how it relates to me. I’m completely death of the author brained. that’s how I personally feel and I know other people can hold very different views when it comes to art which is also valid.
Yeah I should clarify, I don’t usually give a fuck what the author says, it’s more like “you can read amything into a text sure, but is there one that’s more supported by the text?” I guess. That’s probably still a little too literal, thanks to whoever invented Autism probably. Death of the author is always cool and funny.
I strain constantly to try to comprehend things and I’m really fucking stupid, so I’m basically the worst possible person to be dedicated to this sort of thing. But actually
it’s not, I mean more representation in visual media is needed but I’ve got like 57 trans related novels, novellas, graphic novels and so on to read, on top of 36 already read and maybe like 100 more in my general tbr. My life’s work and I am shit at it.
I don’t relate to most media and I’m heavily autistic in I feel empathy completely different to the “norm” hence why I don’t seek stuff out… I already feel alienated because of this and part of why I feel broken compared to everyone else. (I can’t tell if it’s autism or trauma or both or other factors either) Why I constantly remind people I’m from the void, because I don’t experience things the “intended” way the majority of the time and it’s been a source of conflict from various people over time.
the “intended” way is bs and the backbone of lazy art critique!!! death of the author!!!
That’s true ^^ stuff like that mirror quote above and such I don’t feel anything to a lot, I don’t experience emotions like most people typically would. Hence the alienation.
Thank you for linking this though, very good article
CW: Allusions to self-harm
It’s definitely quite possible that I read too much into it. At the start of the game, I read that sign that says, “This memorial dedicated to those who perished on the climb” and it kinda hits cause I draw parallels to all the girls we lost along the way. Also, I see the mountain as an allegory to the difficult mountain we all climb that is our transitions.
Either way, my puppy wife dissuades me every time I want to play it. Probably cause she’d want to watch and she’s not very capable of dealing with such emotions.
the memorial makes me cry:( yeah i also read the game as broadly an allegory for transitioning and overcoming all the hurdles that come with it, persevering despite it all.
oh shit
When you climb the mountain are you then “done” transitioning?
ネタバレ
Y’know, I don’t think we’re ever truly done transitioning. We really just reach a point where we are happy with ourselves. When we can look in the mirror in the morning and see nothing special.
ネタバレ
Byeah, that’s a goodass read ngl =) what I was thinkin when I asked lol
…despite being at the happy-with-myself point I feel surprisingly very not-done
I have things I wanna do but shits been hard yknow
I agree with you I remember seeing the dev of Celeste transitioning some time after and I thought “yeah that makes sense.” I dunno why, Celeste is just a trans game