Does this mean that when Israel dissolves and a primarily Arab state replaces it that I can go there and get married to a bloke without being stoned to death?

I don’t know if you’re right, but I already have registered for a new instance and will be deleting my account soon. And in my country, I would be considered to have very liberal views on the Middle East conflict… I’ve been called “loser” and “shit” and “horrible” and someone supporting “mass murder,” even after I said I support greater ICC funding for war crimes prosecutions. Not only am I done with this instance, but I won’t get involved in supporting the 2 state movement or ICC prosecutions or really doing anything to support causes to decrease Palestinian suffering. These people fucking hate me… there’s other movements to reduce suffering in the world that won’t hate me and other instances.

I still support human rights. I still hope Palestinians suffer less. I do not have the emotional bandwidth to be a part of a movement (albeit in a more moderate capacity) if being insulted like this is the result. I am just going to learn more and put donations elsewhere, like to Sudan where there is also a genocide, because this movement has no room for me.

If you think I never cared about Palestinians, perhaps you are right and I am a horrible person, but even if I am too impure to care, the donations did go to people who did care. Comparing me to Trump supporters and Nazis is another insult. I was slowly learning more about the Palestinian situation online and trying to do the little I could to be supportive, but I hadn’t interacted with this movement that much and known about how insulting and mean they are to people who have slightly more moderate views.

Good luck in your struggle and I hope your movement can help Palestinians.

I’m not interested. With being called “loser” and one thing after the other by assholes on here, I don’t care. My political opinion is going from “I vote against people who don’t support Palestinians” to the movement is toxic and mean and I don’t give a fuck. Leave me the fuck alone. I’ll care about something else.

I’m not on reddit you dumbfuck. I am not “threatening” to kill myself. A close friend of mine committed suicide and I’ve been pretty bummed out since then. I have bought poison if I want to use it long before joining this instance. I mentioned this shit because some bitch is saying that I’m so scared of death, and that my arguments are about being scared of being hurt, and none of my arguments are about my own fear of death. Fuck you. You are all awful pieces of shit, fuck this instance, fuck this movement, I’m out. You should all say some more mean shit but say it to someone else. Fuck, if this is the toxic Pro-Palestinian environment, I don’t give a fuck anymore and I’m actually glad this was put to a vote because I didn’t know what terrible people you are. I don’t want to learn about this shit, donate to it, spend time on it. Have your moral high ground and condescending attitude, have your pure echo chamber. You’re actually assholes. I used to be against the conservative government in Israel… but now… I want nothing to do with any of this shit, I have no opinion on the Israel/Palestinian thing instead of being for ICC stuff, I am no longer someone who votes against people who don’t support Palestinians, seeing this side of the Palestinian movement and the meanness you all have shown me is fucking vile. I was a non-expert ally who was generally on the side of Palestinian people and believed they are being treated unfairly. Now, I want nothing to do with this shit. Suck my dick you piece of shit.

I am a poor depressed person with little power who has previously donated to Palestinian causes. If I am everything you are struggling against, you may want to re-calibrate your movement to actually impact power structures instead of struggling against some Nobody.

It’s okay, I think your comments are reasonable, and if the comments were just from you, I wouldn’t feel this way. The totality of this feels toxic to me, other people saying horrible stuff to me. I have good intentions, or want to have good intentions, and I feel like people are being super mean. I don’t have a thick skin. I can learn about other stuff. Sorry you wasted your time.

Also, to be clear, I am fairly depressed and am generally a fairly suicidal person and have felt that way for years. I am not afraid of my own murder or death.

I’ve donated money to organizations working on behalf of Palestinians, it wasn’t a huge impact, but it was technically not nothing… but you’re right… no one is going to miss me, no one will notice the donations going to Sudanese instead of Palestinians… I never had a mask on. This is who I am. I use Tor Browser. I have no reason to censor my thoughts, no motive to lie. This username “lefthandeddude” is not linked to me at all, not associated with me in any way, and not in search of of impressing others.

Keep making your movement more and more pure and smaller and smaller and alienating anyone impure… Maybe it will be an effective political strategy?

Like I said, after being called “horrible” and “shit” and in favor of mass murder, I’m not interested in learning more. There’s other conflict in society, other ways to try to make the world better. I’m leaving this instance and learning more about the genocide in Sudan. I’m not really willing to be an ally or learn more if this is how I’m treated. I still hope Palestinians are treated better by the world, but I’m out. This isn’t the only atrocity in the world, even if it is among the worst.

Growing the population is just kicking the can down the road because you can’t grow it forever anyway… We already have a over strained biosphere; pollution, resource depletion, climate change, accelerated species extinction etc

This entire thing is a nothing burger.

you’re right

I don’t know enough to really have an opinion on what you said. I know the Zionist claim is that they previously lived in that area and were returning, so have a claim to the land. Fundamentally, it seems bizarre to me that anyone can have a claim on land in any permanent way, but also different cultures have such different values (like some cultures don’t want women to be able to read) that for now, the world being like this seems unfortunately necessary. Maybe in the future everyone will agree that women should be able to read, gays can marry, and people will all just be cool with each other and be able to go wherever they want.

It’s not mutually exclusive to want Palestinian rights and safety and a Palestinian place to exist (that isn’t subject to unreasonable restrictions) and to also want Israel to not be destroyed and to worry about the safety of Jewish people and to worry about the safety of LGBT people and to also want Israel to be run by much more liberal people and to also want Israel to adhere to international law and to also want ICC prosecutions and more Western countries to support the ICC and to also want ICC members and their families to be taken off blacklists.

I like the idea, but I don’t think it reflects the reality of how people feel. People want an echo chamber, and I am not interested in being where I am unwanted. It is what it is.

And that this thread and argument didn’t have anything to do with why you were so upset and getting emotional, you were just stressed about something else.

No this thread actually was what bothered me.

I have been very against the war crimes that have been committed, very in favor of ICC actions, and have donated money to Palestinian causes and learned somewhat about the situation, but don’t consider myself an expert on this. To be called “shit” and “horrible” and a supporter of “actual real mass murder” hurts when I have been so against the war crimes that have occurred and the general mistreatment of Palestinians. Apparently, I am the enemy, however. So… yeah, peace out… I’m not left enough to contribute or have an opinion on this instance.

I don’t really believe in self-care or taking a breather or mental health platitudes. I think most mental health care is over-priced financially predatory bullshit just trying to get people to accept a really horrible and cruel society instead of rightfully being upset and depressed and rejecting how awful society is. I am okay with being sad and miserable. This is a sad and miserable world. Why pretend otherwise?

The self-conjured fear of your own murder made you support actual real mass murder eh.

I was someone who previously donated to Palestinian causes. And apparently, that means I support mass murder.

I get it, I’m not wanted here or in the movement in any capacity unless I am advocating for the explicit destruction of Israel. So I will use my limited time and money elsewhere, there are other conflicts I can donate to.

Take whatever ban records we can, fingerprint the browser, capture the data so when they try to return they cant.

I use Tor Browser. Please… fingerprint me! Or block Tor Browser!

I am in favor of a much more liberal Israel existing that doesn’t violate international law. I don’t think my belief is that an ethno-religious colonial state is the only way to address fears of persecution. As I said, in an ideal situation, in the future, things would be very different.

I really like this instance in part because it doesn’t reject the Tor browser, which I support because it helps with free speech.

I feel like some of my values fit this instance, but perhaps it doesn’t align perfectly. As I said, I’m planning on deleting my account and going somewhere else. I also don’t consider myself an expert on this topic, at all, but since I am apparently horrible and shit, I think I need to learn about other topics, not this, there are other conflicts and problems in the world, there are other instances. The response to my posts is overwhelmingly negative, I just can do something else with my time than be here. I’ll benefit and so will everyone else, apparently.

I am not an expert on all the ways Palestinians have been oppressed. Do you think having a decent amount of land for Palestinians (without bizarre rules or restrictions) that is fair and UN recognition is still somehow bad? From the little I know of the conflict, prior to the most recent war, Palestinians had land, but they were severely restricted in what they could do in unfair ways that would upset pretty much anyone under similar circumstances. I think someone can want a 2 state solution and ICC prosecutions and support a liberal regime in Israel, and that is technically Zionism, even if it means changes to Israel. I don’t see why that is seen as bad.

You may be right that an anarchist instance is not ideal for me. I really wish that religion weren’t so oppressive of people in general and that more people were Atheists (or didn’t have religious views that advocated hurting non-members or minorities), and that people could just go wherever and do whatever. I really hope one day there is a post-AGI world where people just have UBI and travel and do whatever and there’s no conflict.

I don’t think the position “We need to greatly increase ICC funding and take their members off international blacklists” is actually a moderate position, sadly and shockingly, at least not in the country where I am.

I have limited time, limited money, and I’m poor. There are other genocides and conflicts. There is a genocide going on in Sudan. I can donate time or money to that instead of trying to somehow contribute to reducing the suffering in a region where liberal political activists think my views are “mask off” and that I am “typical centrist shit” and “horrible.”

I’m not a horrible person in every way, although I still have work to do to be a better person. But you don’t want my moderate liberal donations? Great, it goes to helping Sudanese people instead.

I still want Palestinians to have access to a safe place to live, food, and housing. But I don’t like being insulted, and I doubt if I try to donate time or money to the Sudanese conflict people are going to be calling me shit. I feel like both groups of people are undergoing horrific circumstances, so given that my time and money is equal in both situations, there is nothing wrong with me putting my efforts elsewhere.

YOU be a better person, you do better. Peace out asshole.